Continuing Saga with my 2012 RS-S Lemon

[dguisinger]

I will also chime in and say it sounds like you have issues with a dealer that is not mechanically competent.

Another point I noted--you mentioned Hindle muffler. Early on, people who installed those seemed to have issues with how the ran. I have not heard any Hindle issues of recent vintage though.

I do hope you are able to get you list of issues solved. As one other mentioned--the RSS has not been a that has hit the problem lists very often.

I am aware of back-pressure related issues and the Hindle, I actually am experiencing that as well. When you idle it stutters a bit and backfires as you shift. So far I've considered these unrelated, unless someone can show the missing link. Most of those issues did start occurring after the hindle was added, but i've never heard of people having shifting issues related to the hindle.

[Bob Denman]

Shifting Problems:
This can ABSOLUTELY be caused by Low Oil and by Old Oil, when I have some SE5 shifting issue it has always been oil related, an oil change has resolved the problem everytime. [I change my own oil, and use AMSOil]

There is one and only 1 time I have had a non-oil related issue in regards to the Spyder, and that was when I was doing A LOT of work on lighting, HIDs, Top case change out (another light), and some changes to my powerlet outlet. This resulted in a HUGE issue re-connecting my triple / double plays, the lighting EVERYWHERE on the bike, the handling, the shifting, the total deal was off, and it was ultimately because of an errant ground wire. To locate and resolve the issue I had to return the wiring harness to 100% stock and then re-add lights 1 at a time. When I did that (removing the triple and double play boxes), all items were resolved.

Based on what you are telling me I am concerned about your oil, your electrical harness, and your oil filters in the SE5 transmission reservoir. Beyond that pending the oil situation there could be gearbox / clutch / tranny damage.

Hey Tito! It's been a long time; good to see that you're still hanging around with us!

[napper39]

like others have said not shifting is do to low oil so if that happens you must check your oil level right then and add oil if nedded.rember that the battery cable vibrates loose and that can case all kinds of bad things,so check your battery cables not the ones under your seat the ones on the battery..

[dguisinger]

like others have said not shifting is do to low oil so if that happens you must check your oil level right then and add oil if nedded.rember that the battery cable vibrates loose and that can case all kinds of bad things,so check your battery cables not the ones under your seat the ones on the battery..

Again, let me repeat, 2 oil changes in 1 month and I'm still having throttle and shifting issues. As well as a gear position sensor that tested bad and was replaced after those oil changes. (Same sensor that was already replaced 500 miles after original purchase of the spyder)

I would rule current oil levels as having nothing to do with it, I've only ridden 2 hours since the last service, and only a few hundred miles between each service visit. There is no way my oil drops that quick. And yes, I have checked the level. I did initially have oil drop 2 quarts between my break-in oil change and my 5000 mile mark.

[dguisinger]

BRP is stepping in, they say they will have a plan of action for me tomorrow afternoon.

[hchays]

Good luck with BRP stepping in!! I am a technician that works on a lot of electrical issues. This sound much more like an electrical issue than oil levels. Yes oil level can contribute to an engine not running properly and can change how a transmission shifts, but not cause your issues. This is an electrical issue for sure. I know that I run across computers that cause odd-ball issues (i.e. your sensor tested bad twice, shifting issues and throttle issues) every once in a while. A lot of the time they are intermittent issues just as you have. I can't tell you for sure what it is, but this may be a great place to start considering you have had intermittent shifting issues sense you bought the Spyder. Once again, good luck with BRP. They don't seem to be very involved with customer service or interested in return customers.......

I bought a new 2013 Spyder RS and I love it, but I'm not sure that I will buy another due to the dealers that BRP has as partners and the lack of personal attention that BRP gives to thier customers. I understand that Spyders are not priced for "non established" people. However for what we pay for these machines they should really take care of us. We pay Harley Davidson prices for these and get used car dealer service. Sorry to rant, just type whats on my mind....

[SpyderAnn01]

Do you have a power commander - Juice Box Pro?

[SNOOPY]

per the OP

Has anyone investigated the condition of the SE5 filter.
They have been known to collapse and that would inhibit proper shifting.

Good to know that and store it in my memory.

[SNOOPY]

BRP is stepping in, they say they will have a plan of action for me tomorrow afternoon.

This is is great that at least they acknowledged you, good or bad keep us up to date please.

[dguisinger]

Do you have a power commander - Juice Box Pro?

I do not have a anything to control the timing, mixture and fuel injection on the engine. I have been considering it to cure the issues with the Hindle, but there's no way I'd do it before all my other problems were solved.

To other people's point about working with BRP, I must say I was impressed when I called in and after giving them my VIN they immediately mentioned they saw my dealer has repeatedly called them regarding my spyder and they also mentioned they saw my 2013 SeaDoo. Their computer system really pulls all their information together on their customers.

[Dizneyman]

I would rule current oil levels as having nothing to do with it, I've only ridden 2 hours since the last service, and only a few hundred miles between each service visit. There is no way my oil drops that quick. And yes, I have checked the level. I did initially have oil drop 2 quarts between my break-in oil change and my 5000 mile mark.


In an earlier post you said your initial service was done at 1500 miles, not 600. Then you said you lost two quarts between initial service and 5000 miles??

That means you lost 2 quarts in 3,500 miles...That is just not right.....

[dguisinger]

That means you lost 2 quarts in 3,500 miles...That is just not right.....

Thats correct, the spyder tech's eyes about popped out of his head when i mentioned that the last time it was in the shop... there's never been any indication of a leak, so it must have been burned off. They asked me to start keeping a log of when i put oil in.

I do believe this particular spyder has multiple issues, I may not be tracking down a single issue.

Oil burning, throttle, surging, clanging and shifting issues, two replaced gear position sensors, and idle/backfiring issues from the hindle...

[SNOOPY]

I do not have a anything to control the timing, mixture and fuel injection on the engine. I have been considering it to cure the issues with the Hindle, but there's no way I'd do it before all my other problems were solved.

To other people's point about working with BRP, I must say I was impressed when I called in and after giving them my VIN they immediately mentioned they saw my dealer has repeatedly called them regarding my spyder and they also mentioned they saw my 2013 SeaDoo. Their computer system really pulls all their information together on their customers.

Great info, thanks.

[SNOOPY]

Thats correct, the spyder tech's eyes about popped out of his head when i mentioned that the last time it was in the shop... there's never been any indication of a leak, so it must have been burned off. They asked me to start keeping a log of when i put oil in.

I do believe this particular spyder has multiple issues, I may not be tracking down a single issue.

Oil burning, throttle, surging, clanging and shifting issues, two replaced gear position sensors, and idle/backfiring issues from the hindle...

Sounds like you're pretty hard on your Spyder?

just kidding man.

[dguisinger]

Sounds like you're pretty hard on your Spyder?

just kidding man.

Hahaha, yeah, destroyed it by 10,000 miles, I must be riding it too hard :P

[SNOOPY]

[Bob Denman]

I would rule current oil levels as having nothing to do with it, I've only ridden 2 hours since the last service, and only a few hundred miles between each service visit. There is no way my oil drops that quick. And yes, I have checked the level. I did initially have oil drop 2 quarts between my break-in oil change and my 5000 mile mark.


In an earlier post you said your initial service was done at 1500 miles, not 600. Then you said you lost two quarts between initial service and 5000 miles??

That means you lost 2 quarts in 3,500 miles...That is just not right.....

But if your bike lost that much oil; I'd be even more suspicious about the amount of oil that's still in the tank at any given moment...

Good Luck; let us know what they come up with!

[Michael211_2000]

But if your bike lost that much oil;

Only 2 possible explanations for that much oil loss in such a short time frame with no visible oil leaks: either the engine ingested the oil (in which case I'd expect a smoking exhaust, just like any engine that's actively burning oil) OR the dealership didn't fill it to the correct level when they had previously changed the oil (which would seem more likely to me). I'd certainly be monitoring the oil level every fuel fill-up to verify that the oil level isn't dropping, and if it holds stable then I'd figure the latter was the culprit (and as it's been mentioned, you might not want to use that dealership #1 anymore; you already don't trust them after all).

The other symptoms sure do sound electrical though...

Also a general question/observation to all.... don't you change both the engine oil filter and SE5 filter at the same time every time? And I gotta wonder, has his Dealership #1 (and #2) changed BOTH filters or just the primary engine filter? Hmmmmm... this is why I prefer to do my own servicing on all my vehicles whenever possible.

Regards.

- Michael

[myronmathis]

I have found that the techs at dealerships for the most part are not real savvy with the spyder. i have had issues with my 2011 RSS; the first happened when i first purchased the vehicle in January of 2012 (new). There was a message running across the odometer that read to check transmission, i immediately took it to the dealer that i purchased it from and they couldnt find anything wrong. Be very careful trusting the techs analysis.

[dguisinger]

Latest status. I rode it a bunch this weekend (in the freezing cold).

Saturday I had both the mis-shift from 1st to 2nd gear and the lack of full power / surging that I experienced a week before.

A few things I have noticed:
1) Almost every time its failed to shift from 1st to 2nd is on the same stretch of road 3-4 blocks from my house. It would seem to indicate engine temp / oil temp or sensor calibration or computer startup sequence problem. Whats weird is it shifts fine into 2nd gear when I leave the house, then I stop, turn onto the main road, and that's when the shift fails.

2) Both times I've had the lack of power / surging issue have occurred only in the last week, both times the Spyder was sitting out in the rain right before I rode it.

Now, onto BRP.
I talked to them on Wednesday last week. I was told I would have a plan of action on Thursday. I never heard anything, I emailed Thursday night and got a response Friday morning stating he had to take an emergency day off and he would get back to me by end of day Friday. I never heard back. I emailed them again Monday with an update of what happened over the weekend and the patterns I was starting to notice. Heard nothing back. I emailed again an hour ago, I'm losing confidence that BRP will do anything without me handing their asses to them (as well as the dealer's) in a lawsuit and embarrassing them in public.

[Dan McNally]

The first time I checked my oil after the 600 mile service, it was over 1/2 quart low . . . I suspect the dealer did not fill it all the way. I say this, because I can't believe I used no oil from 0 to 600 miles, and then over 1/2 a quart between 600 and 800, and then none from 800 to 2000. I've learned it is a darn good idea to check your oil as soon as possible after a service where they change it . . . just in case. How often did you check your oil between the service and when you found it so low?

[hchays]

Latest status. I rode it a bunch this weekend (in the freezing cold).

Saturday I had both the mis-shift from 1st to 2nd gear and the lack of full power / surging that I experienced a week before.

A few things I have noticed:
1) Almost every time its failed to shift from 1st to 2nd is on the same stretch of road 3-4 blocks from my house. It would seem to indicate engine temp / oil temp or sensor calibration or computer startup sequence problem. Whats weird is it shifts fine into 2nd gear when I leave the house, then I stop, turn onto the main road, and that's when the shift fails.

2) Both times I've had the lack of power / surging issue have occurred only in the last week, both times the Spyder was sitting out in the rain right before I rode it.

Now, onto BRP.
I talked to them on Wednesday last week. I was told I would have a plan of action on Thursday. I never heard anything, I emailed Thursday night and got a response Friday morning stating he had to take an emergency day off and he would get back to me by end of day Friday. I never heard back. I emailed them again Monday with an update of what happened over the weekend and the patterns I was starting to notice. Heard nothing back. I emailed again an hour ago, I'm losing confidence that BRP will do anything without me handing their asses to them (as well as the dealer's) in a lawsuit and embarrassing them in public.

As I stated before, I don't think I will be buying another Can-Am product again. Nor will I recommend them to anyone again. This is a very sad show of customer support. Yet this seems to be the standard for BRP and it's dealers in general. It's just another sad day for Spyder owners.....

[BajaRon]

Sorry to hear about your ongoing issues. Something is not right here (DUH!) but it doesn't sound like the obvious has necessarily been addressed.

I noticed that someone mentioned the Oil/Transmission filter collapse/disintegration problem which will definitely put a dent in your day. I just want to point out that the only filters that experienced this issue were the OEM BRP products. None of the aftermarket filters ever had this problem, Engine or Transmission. Nor have there ever been any reported oil flow restriction issues with aftermarket filters (though the original BRP transmission filter did suffer from this condition).

Be sure you are NOT using any of the original BRP oil filters. If you have some, throw them away.

Your description of oil loss is a bit hard to follow (maybe just me). But there are only 3 possibilities (which have been covered but not necessarily addressed).

1- Dealer did not properly fill your Spyder. This seems most likely to me. You say you checked oil level but this must be done correctly with the Spyder completely warmed up (not just operating temperature on the coolant gauge). Engine should be allowed to idle for about 30 seconds on flat ground, shut the engine off and wait about a minute (which is about how long it will take you to get the side cover off, pull the dip stick, wipe it off, screw it back into the reservoir and pull it back out again).

If you're not checking it using this method, you are probably not getting an accurate reading. Checking your oil level before a ride with the Spyder cold is not a good approach.

I highly recommend everyone check their oil level right after having an oil change. If you don't you may be asking for trouble. Assuming that your dealership knows what they are doing or that they did a good job can be a big mistake. By checking your oil level you will have piece of mind if they did it right and you will be able to get it corrected right away if they did not.

2- Your filling your air box and your throttle bodies with oil from the crankcase vent. This is not only lowering your oil level to where you may not get proper shifting (especially early in your ride) but can also give you a rough running engine as you foul spark plugs, gum up the valves and possibly the throttle bodies as well.

This is easily checked by pulling the top of the air box off and see what you find.

3- The least likely scenario is that you're getting a lot of oil by the piston rings. Losing that much oil isn't going to fix itself during the break-in period. It would have to be something serious like a broken ring or rings, bad cylinder bore, etc. Not something that is going to go away. You'd be getting a fair amount of blue smoke out the tail pipe as well. If not, then this is not your problem and it has to be #1 or #2 above.

Take your air box cover off and you may be able to instantly rule out #2 which leaves you with #1 as the oil issue cause.

Not ruling out an electrical problem. But trouble shooting the oil issue is relatively simple and will, at the very least, rule out some potential causes.

Good luck and let us know what the final fix turns out to be.

[NancysToy]

3- The least likely scenario is that you're getting a lot of oil by the piston rings. Losing that much oil isn't going to fix itself during the break-in period. It would have to be something serious like a broken ring or rings, bad cylinder bore, etc. Not something that is going to go away. You'd be getting a fair amount of blue smoke out the tail pipe as well. If not, then this is not your problem and it has to be #1 or #2 above.

...or the valve guides.

[dguisinger]

Well... a month later still nothing is resolved.
The dealer has had my spyder for a month.
Every week including today they call me back saying "we can't reproduce anything".

They claim to be riding it every day, I call bull****.
In the 2 weeks before I brought it in for the 5th time, EVERY SINGLE TIME i took it out for the first time each day, it would fail to shift at least once during the first minute of riding.

It was no longer "Oh it happens occasionally", it was "It happens every time".

I no longer see much of an option other than suing the dealer and suing BRP.

(Oh yeah, BRP never followed through when they claimed they were going to take charge of the situation)