Continuing Saga with my 2012 RS-S Lemon

[dguisinger]

Last time I posted, the second dealer blamed all my problems on an oil change they claimed hadn't happened and that my oil was low. It didn't fix problems, brought it back to the first dealer and they replaced my gear box sensor which they indicated tested bad for the second time.

I'm still having major problems, the engine ran last night at 4000RPMs but wasn't putting out the level of power it should have and was surging momentarily and then dropping off, and I received a loud clanging in the transmission with a stop/go/stop/go action while going up my driveway.

Below is a list of all of my problems I have had with my 2012 RS-S. Names have been redacted. It has been in the shop over 2 months this summer, my family members are getting really tired of coordinating rides and I just can't trust this machine. I gave BRP a very low rating with JD Power today in a followup survey from my last service visit. I really think BRP should replace this machine with a brand new unit:

May 2012: Purchased new from DEALER#1


June 2012(?): fixed bad gear position sensor - DEALER#1


June 2012(?): Break-in service, oil change ( I remember this being
done a bit late, probably around 1500 miles) - DEALER#1


May 2013 - Problem switching from R to N to 1st on multiple occasions,
required turning off and back on to continue - TECH called and
discussed, suggested checking oil


May 2013 - Checked oil after running engine, did not register on dip
stick. Poured in small quantities, restarted engine, and checked per
owners manual instructions, repeated until indicated full, put in over
2 quarts of oil. Odometer was around 5000 or 5500 miles as I had
received my 5K Mile Pin over the winter for just barely hitting it.


August 2013: 9300 mile service (oil change?), rear brake pad replaced - DEALER#1


August 2013: Added HID Headlights, Fog Lights, Flash2Pass, 12V Charger
Port, and Hindle Exhaust - DEALER#1


August 24th, 2013: Almost got stranded in Lake City, MN, upon starting
up, gears wouldn't shift and throttle would drop to idle immediately
even when held wide open, cycled power and tried repeatedly for
several minutes until it started working. E-mailed Rick with complete
information when I got home.


August 25th, 2013 Same issue in my garage, can-am wouldn't shift gears
or work the throttle, left it overnight and it worked fine in the AM


August 27th, 2013: Brought it back to DEALER#1


September 5th, 2013: Picked up at DEALER#1, was told Platinum plugs
would help with Hindle stuttering (it did not), was told my problems
must have been air-temp related on a hot day and that my spyder had no
actual problems


September 7th 2013, self-installed Comfort Seat, Comfort Handle Grips,
and R-35 Saddle Bag kit


September 9th, 2013: Threw Check Transmission errors repeatedly when
attempting to shift into 5th gear at highway speeds and was flashing R
and N. Air temp was in the low 70s. Mileage was approximately
10,100.


September 9th, 2013 - September 21st, Diagnostics and Oil Change - DEALER#2
(DEALER#2 claimed oil was low and dirty, just had oil changed weeks earlier - didn't solve anything)


September 25th, 2013 - 2 second long rough shift in mid-range RPMs
from 1st gear to 2nd gear, spyder lunged as the clutch disengaged and
the engine revved two or three times before changing gears and
entering 2nd. Ride continued on with no problems, no on-screen error
messages or indicators. Occurred about a minute and a half after
engine start, temperature was in the low-70s.


September 28th, 2013 - Around mile 10,850. 300 mile round trip ride with a group of Spyder riders from Mora. Twice while idling forward the transmission repeatedly went clang-clang-clang with a stop/go/stop/go action.


September 29th, 2013 - Dropped off at DEALER#1


October 10th, 2013 - Picked up Spyder, fixed bad gear position sensor (second time)


October 11th, 2013 - Had a repeat of the throttle issue on startup. On first start, I pulled the throttle back and the Spyder engine killed. On second start, I pulled the throttle, and RPMs were limited to 2000RPM and quickly dropped off as previously reported.


October 14th, 2013 - 1 mile drive home from in the rain, temperature mid-50s, couldn't get full power out of the engine. Maintained 4000RPMs and the engine kept surging and then throttling back the whole way home. When going up the driveway in 1st gear, it started doing the clang-clang-clang stop/go/stop/go action and barely made it up the driveway.

[SNOOPY]

WOW !

[SteveMac]

Sorry to hear this.

Definitely not normal for the RSS. In fact, I consider the 2012 RSS to be one of the finest Spyders made. So it is a shame you've had so many issues.

[dguisinger]

Sorry to hear this.

Definitely not normal for the RSS. In fact, I consider the 2012 RSS to be one of the finest Spyders made. So it is a shame you've had so many issues.

For the most part, it was great, until about 9000 miles. As soon as I put money into it and added the hindle, the HID lights, fog lights, 12V port, trunk liner, etc it started acting up.... I continued to trust it would get fixed and added a comfort seat and saddlebags after that... but this is getting ridiculous ... BRP also doesn't respond to their emails, so I'm now having to try to get their attention in public.

[SNOOPY]

For the most part, it was great, until about 9000 miles. As soon as I put money into it and added the hindle, the HID lights, fog lights, 12V port, trunk liner, etc it started acting up.... I continued to trust it would get fixed and added a comfort seat and saddlebags after that... but this is getting ridiculous ... BRP also doesn't respond to their emails, so I'm now having to try to get their attention in public.

Wondering if since they did a few electrical things at once maybe something isn't connected properly or grounded properly? I take it you had the electronic shift bike?

[dguisinger]

Wondering if since they did a few electrical things at once maybe something isn't connected properly or grounded properly? I take it you had the electronic shift bike?

Correct, its an SE5
Its never reproduced any of these problems when the dealer has it in their possession.

[SNOOPY]

I hate electrical problems.

Things can be as simple as a pinched wire somewhere and make 5 different symptoms appear at random.

It could be they tapped into an important wire to some system.

Almost like you would need to have what they installed looked at and make sure things were connected properly and watch closely that wires aren't pinched or attached incorrectly. Could be a real nightmare just to track down if that is even what is going on. I hate having people work on my stuff.

Just throwing out ideas, not trying to make it sound any worse.

[dguisinger]

Some major electrical disconnects are done while taking things apart to put the lights in, its possible and has crossed my mind.
Doesn't help that each time the dealer gets the spyder I have to go 60 miles and leave it with them for a week and a half. The other thing that occurs to me is a lot of the issues relate to the clutch/transmission. When the throttle doesn't work when i power on, it claims to be in 1st gear instead of N, and refuses to shift. When I get the low RPM clanging, its right around where the clutch should be disengaging. Likewise, yesterdays problem with a lack of power and then sudden surges makes me also thing clutch... but I'm not a mechanic, and everything on this damn thing is so computerized its hard to know how issues are linked.

A bunch of people are advising me to get an attorney involved.

I hate electrical problems.

Things can be as simple as a pinched wire somewhere and make 5 different symptoms appear at random.

It could be they tapped into an important wire to some system.

Almost like you would need to have what they installed looked at and make sure things were connected properly and watch closely that wires aren't pinched or attached incorrectly. Could be a real nightmare just to track down if that is even what is going on. I hate having people work on my stuff.

Just throwing out ideas, not trying to make it sound any worse.

[fastfraser]

Just a thought . Its always best to work bacwards from when your trouble started to what you did to your Spyder !

[dguisinger]

Just a thought . Its always best to work bacwards from when your trouble started to what you did to your Spyder !

Agreed, i just also had transmission issues the first few weeks after I bought it, plus again this past spring. Those are the two top possibilities. You would think the dealer would have checked all electrical wiring since they did the electrical installs. Speaking of which, they also added a Flash2Pass for me. Does anyone else on here have one of these? I'd find it hard to believe tapping the headlight wire would cause problems in every other system...

[SNOOPY]

It's a shame w/ continued problems that BRP can't offer up some suggestions???

[dguisinger]

It's a shame w/ continued problems that BRP can't offer up some suggestions???

I did email Can-Am over a month ago and it took them two weeks to respond and when I replied I never heard back. I sent them this link in a message on FB today to show that I'm ready to make a big public spectacle of this if they don't fix it and make things right.

I just reached out to my business attorney for a referral to a lemon law attorney. MN doesn't have a lemon law covering motorcycles, but the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act should cover my situation.

I'm going to put pressure on Can-Am to get this fixed or replaced with a new unit. As it is my warranty runs out in the spring right after riding season starts. At this rate I will have no idea if the next service visit will actually fix the issue until my warranty is expired in the next riding season. And I definitely don't feel like I should A) buy the Can-Am extended warranty when the machine has given me so many problems during the current coverage period, and B) I really shouldn't have to even deal with the 50+ mile ride back and forth and coordinating rides with other people who have to go out of their way to constantly bring it in for more diagnostics work that leads to no fixes.

[NancysToy]

I hate to say this, but the real lemon is the dealer! You really, really, really need a new one...with a competent tech.

[dguisinger]

I hate to say this, but the real lemon is the dealer! You really, really, really need a new one...with a competent tech.

Well, the second dealer ... all they did was tell me the first dealer didn't change my oil and that it was low, the original dealer claims they had done it, paid the 2nd dealer, and it didn't solve my problems... so the 2nd dealer even though they knew i had a huge history of problems chose not to actually look at it from what i can tell...

Ultimately Can-Am is responsible for whether or not their dealers can fix issues under a warranty problem, I shouldn't have to seek out 5 or 10 dealers to fix a problem.

[va2djd]

Juste for info what brand of Hid light did you install on
you're Spyder as main light and fog?

[dguisinger]

Juste for info what brand of Hid light did you install on
you're Spyder as main light and fog?

Its the official Can-Am OEM parts.

[dguisinger]

Add to that it just failed a shift
i just took it for a ride, shifted from 1st to 2nd and it didn't go, I heard it try 3 times and then my RPMs shot way up and I found myself back in 1st gear

this thing is getting dangerous to ride, you never know what it's going to do

[Flanker]

Damn! That does sound like a lemon; MN got any kind of consumer protection laws, or maybe such a division of your Attorney Generals Office? We do in MI. Glad I bought a manual tranny, that's for sure! Good luck getting this squared away to your satisfaction!

[Bob Denman]

Wow!
From what I've been able to absorb from your list; this is coming down to oil levels and shifting difficulties...
Why not try keep a MUCH closer eye on your oil levels, and see if it helps with the shifting?
The ESSIES are pretty famous for signaling that they're getting thirsty by letting off some bad shifts...

[dguisinger]

Wow!
From what I've been able to absorb from your list; this is coming down to oil levels and shifting difficulties...
Why not try keep a MUCH closer eye on your oil levels, and see if it helps with the shifting?
The ESSIES are pretty famous for signaling that they're getting thirsty by letting off some bad shifts...

Well, it seems some of the "oil" stuff might have been an excuse from dealer #2 to charge me for something and get it out the door. They claimed that the oil change dealer #1 claimed to have done at the 9300 mile service wasn't done and that the oil was low and dirty. That was only like 300 miles later. They did an oil change, it didn't solve any problems. Were they telling the truth or looking for a billable? No idea.

It doesn't seem like any dealer is putting time into the diagnostics, if they can't get a problem to show up in the first 10 minutes of riding they decide there is no problem.

[Bob Denman]

I hate to say this, but the real lemon is the dealer! You really, really, really need a new one...with a competent tech.

Based upon what you just said...
with Scotty...

[Web Runner]

Hi everyone,
I remember there were some issues with dealerships not connecting the chassis ground wire to the motor. This was causing all kinds of shifting problems. It seems this happened with the 08's thru 10's RS and RS-S models. I did a search just a minute ago but I could not find what I wanted. Does anyone remember reading about this?

I'm wondering if yours came loose or was removed during some of the installs and forgotten to get reconnected.

[zrc]

Shifting Problems:
This can ABSOLUTELY be caused by Low Oil and by Old Oil, when I have some SE5 shifting issue it has always been oil related, an oil change has resolved the problem everytime. [I change my own oil, and use AMSOil]

There is one and only 1 time I have had a non-oil related issue in regards to the Spyder, and that was when I was doing A LOT of work on lighting, HIDs, Top case change out (another light), and some changes to my powerlet outlet. This resulted in a HUGE issue re-connecting my triple / double plays, the lighting EVERYWHERE on the bike, the handling, the shifting, the total deal was off, and it was ultimately because of an errant ground wire. To locate and resolve the issue I had to return the wiring harness to 100% stock and then re-add lights 1 at a time. When I did that (removing the triple and double play boxes), all items were resolved.

Based on what you are telling me I am concerned about your oil, your electrical harness, and your oil filters in the SE5 transmission reservoir. Beyond that pending the oil situation there could be gearbox / clutch / tranny damage.

[dguisinger]

Shifting Problems:
This can ABSOLUTELY be caused by Low Oil and by Old Oil, when I have some SE5 shifting issue it has always been oil related, an oil change has resolved the problem everytime. [I change my own oil, and use AMSOil]

There is one and only 1 time I have had a non-oil related issue in regards to the Spyder, and that was when I was doing A LOT of work on lighting, HIDs, Top case change out (another light), and some changes to my powerlet outlet. This resulted in a HUGE issue re-connecting my triple / double plays, the lighting EVERYWHERE on the bike, the handling, the shifting, the total deal was off, and it was ultimately because of an errant ground wire. To locate and resolve the issue I had to return the wiring harness to 100% stock and then re-add lights 1 at a time. When I did that (removing the triple and double play boxes), all items were resolved.

Based on what you are telling me I am concerned about your oil, your electrical harness, and your oil filters in the SE5 transmission reservoir. Beyond that pending the oil situation there could be gearbox / clutch / tranny damage.

There have been two oil changes plus a sensor change in the last 1500 miles.
i agree it could be half the subsystems on the spyder, point is legally I shouldn't have to deal with 5 attempts fix an issue nor so I care which dealer is at fault or if there is a factory flaw. It needs to be resolved and I no longer want to waste countless hours coordinating repairs and spend months making payments on a vehicle that is sitting in a shop unable to be repaired.

[ARtraveler]

I will also chime in and say it sounds like you have issues with a dealer that is not mechanically competent.

Another point I noted--you mentioned Hindle muffler. Early on, people who installed those seemed to have issues with how the ran. I have not heard any Hindle issues of recent vintage though.

I do hope you are able to get you list of issues solved. As one other mentioned--the RSS has not been a that has hit the problem lists very often.