Strange Discussion

[paulbrinker]

We met a person today with a 2012 RT SE5 Limited that he purchased from a non BRP dealer as a used bike with about 80 miles on it. He has had it for less than a year, and had to replace the clutch because he was shifting it way to early. I do not know who replaced the clutch but they told him they adjusted the computer so he could shift it at lower RPM's and not burn the clutch. I have never heard of this, and I believe that he will continue to burn clutches and destroy the machine.

I would like to get some input from the vast knowledge out there, so that the next time I meet him, I can have some solid information in order to give him some advice to keep him from ruining the machine and bad mouthing Spyders.

[OldCowboy]

So, here's the thing. if you are shifting a SE5 such that the RPMs in the higher gear are lower than 3500, you're going to eventually burn the clutch. The clutch is a centrifugal clutch and there is nothing that can be done through BUDS that will change the physics of its engagement. IMHO, the smartest thing a SE5 ryder can do is to put his RT into Trailer Mode. In Trailer Mode, Nanny won't let you upshift if the resulting RPMs will cause clutch slippage, virtually eliminating a burnt clutch.

[stallion143]

So, here's the thing. if you are shifting a SE5 such that the RPMs in the higher gear are lower than 3500, you're going to eventually burn the clutch. The clutch is a centrifugal clutch and there is nothing that can be done through BUDS that will change the physics of its engagement. IMHO, the smartest thing a SE5 ryder can do is to put his RT into Trailer Mode. In Trailer Mode, Nanny won't let you upshift if the resulting RPMs will cause clutch slippage, virtually eliminating a burnt clutch.

Any adverse effects from running in "trailer mode" all the time?

[Mexican]

What is the correct RPM to shift an SE5??

[DriftersWay]

The easiest way I shift the SE5 is 1st gear up thru 29 MPH, 2nd up thru 39, 3rd up thru 49, 4th up thru 59, 60 and up. I understand that this the minimum. Happy ryding

[billybovine]

What is the correct RPM to shift an SE5??

I assume you meant upshift. 4500 to 9000 and is the same as a SM5

[crazyspyder]

I've had mine almost 2yrs with NO problems (yet)...and I am very conservative on my shifting to save gas. normal driving upshift at 3k to 3.5 k and usually drive in 4th gear thru town in traffic at posted 40mph. I kicked it up a notch if posted speeds are higher like getting to the interstate 4.5k to 5k revs. . my dealer knows and didn't have any comment on it. I know for sure that 2.5k is when the nanny downshifts- and that would be your lugging point to upshift- AND by the way my spyder wont let you upshift unless you have minimum rpm torque. I have the 2012 RT-SE5.cheers

[boborgera]

Any adverse effects from running in "trailer mode" all the time?

Might lower your MPG's a little. Other than that no adverse effects.

[ARtraveler]

A lot of us shift in the 5000 to 5500 range. Also use this as operating range for whatever gear you are in. You wont use fifth gear until 60-65 mph here. The is always "ready to go" in this range, and the Rotax seems to be happiest. Mileage not affected. Still get 30-31 mpg.

[WarrenGH]

So, here's the thing. if you are shifting a SE5 such that the RPMs in the higher gear are lower than 3500, you're going to eventually burn the clutch. The clutch is a centrifugal clutch and there is nothing that can be done through BUDS that will change the physics of its engagement. IMHO, the smartest thing a SE5 ryder can do is to put his RT into Trailer Mode. In Trailer Mode, Nanny won't let you upshift if the resulting RPMs will cause clutch slippage, virtually eliminating a burnt clutch.

My RT won't shift into trailer mode without a trailer connected, so I'm wondering how switching to trailer can be done?

[ARtraveler]

My RT won't shift into trailer mode without a trailer connected, so I'm wondering how switching to trailer can be done?

I believe you can either use or not use the trailer mode setup just by activating the trailer mode option in the modes area of the set up screen. You probably have to have the machine stopped for it to activate. I have turned it on and off--but never tried riding with it activated--since I do not pull a trailer.

If I am wrong they will correct me.

[OldCowboy]

Any adverse effects from running in "trailer mode" all the time?

As near as I can tell, the only thing "trailer mode" does is keep you from upshifting too soon and automatically downshifting at about 3200 RPM.

[OldCowboy]

I've had mine almost 2yrs with NO problems (yet)...and I am very conservative on my shifting to save gas. normal driving upshift at 3k to 3.5 k and usually drive in 4th gear thru town in traffic at posted 40mph. I kicked it up a notch if posted speeds are higher like getting to the interstate 4.5k to 5k revs. . my dealer knows and didn't have any comment on it. I know for sure that 2.5k is when the nanny downshifts- and that would be your lugging point to upshift- AND by the way my spyder wont let you upshift unless you have minimum rpm torque. I have the 2012 RT-SE5.cheers

Several of the experts on this forum have stated that the centrifugal clutch is not fully engaged until 3250 +/- 250 RPM. Their advice has been to not shift unless the RPM after the shift is at least 3500 RPM. As an added measure of ensuring the clutch stays fully engaged, the following speeds have been suggested as appropriate shift points: 1st > 2nd = 29 MPH; 2nd > 3rd = 39 MPH; 3rd > 4th = 49 MPH; 4th >5th = 60 MPH or higher.

Since it's impossible to really tell when the SE5 clutch is fully engaged, I am following the experts advice.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: I just found the following information in the service manual. Centrifugal clutch engagement = 2000 +/- 200. Centrifugal clutch stall = 3200 +/- 200. Based on this information, centrifugal clutch engagement could begin as early as 1800 RPM and full clutch engagement may not occur until 3400 RPM.

[Chupaca]

The semi automatic clutches throught 2013 do not fully engauge till the engine reaches 3,500 rpm's. If you shift at 4,000/4,500 rpms you gear ratio will drop the rpm's in many cases below the 3,500. Getting back up will cause slipage. The same if you run around town below the 3,500 rpm's often refered to as lugging the engine. If his mechanic said he adjusted the computer to do as he wishes "we need him here" I have a few other computer adjustments I would like done...!!

[Bob Denman]

If memory serves me correctly...(A rarity these days!), Wasn't there an update to the software that would force a downshift if a load was put on the system?

[daveinva]

Good advice above, but man, this place sure feels like Groundhog Day at times...

As I'm sure I've said in every "shift point" thread, the thing that boggles isn't just that the low-shifters are doing it wrong (and playing dice with their *TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR* machines!), it's that there's no question their bike rides like and they just accept it, either through ignorance, or worse, stubbornness.

The 990 loves high RPM. It works best there, the Spyder rides best there, it's where you should-- natch, need to-- spend your happy time.

Alas, given the 2013s-- and soon, the 2014s-- this conversation will soon be moot for all but the band of merry few on the RS. An entire generation of new Spyderlovers will finally be able to ride their Spyders like sightseeing cruiser riders, never enjoying the visceral pleasure of spooling up past 6,000++ rpm to jet out of a corner...

High RPMs, we hardly knew ye.

[Sny]

I've had mine almost 2yrs with NO problems (yet)...and I am very conservative on my shifting to save gas. normal driving upshift at 3k to 3.5 k and usually drive in 4th gear thru town in traffic at posted 40mph. I kicked it up a notch if posted speeds are higher like getting to the interstate 4.5k to 5k revs. . my dealer knows and didn't have any comment on it. I know for sure that 2.5k is when the nanny downshifts- and that would be your lugging point to upshift- AND by the way my spyder wont let you upshift unless you have minimum rpm torque. I have the 2012 RT-SE5.cheers

BRP has specifically stated you should not shift if the resulting engine rpm will be below 3500 or you will cause excessive and premature wear on your centrifugal clutch. If you do this, and your centrifugal clutch fails, they will NOT cover it under warranty. The centrifugal clutch doesn't fully engage until over 3500 rpm and shifting at a point where you drop below that is like starting the bike from a stop, except with a lot more throttle and engine loading so it'll cause about as much wear as drag racing. Do that for thousands of miles and it'll destroy the centrifugal clutch often resulting in other damages to the transmission as well.

Now unloaded, as in decelerating lightly, below 3500 rpm won't cause excessive wear (just normal wear) but if you were to try and get back on the throttle at that point you would be in the same situation plus lugging the motor which can lead to an even more expensive repair.

[wyliec]

To the OP, tell your acquaintance to also find a new mechanic/dealership to do any future work .