Possible fix on engine heating for us southern folks (good info)

[Warlock]

We might be running too much anti freeze in the cooling system. Check out this web page.
http://www.challengers101.com/CoolantMix.html
david

[Bob Denman]

Interesting... They mention the Rotax 582; are they referring to the two=stroke enignes? (Or wouldn't it matter?)

[Cruzr Joe]

I think that this is good info and i thank you for posting it, i will say that i thought the more antifreeze the better but that does not appear to be the case. OK GURU's what do you think? can lowerering the antifreeze ratio in summer help???




Cruzr Joe

[flamingobabe]

Warlock.....with my 2013 ST the engine has never ran hot....even when the "heat soak" incident...stopped for gas...start engine "high temp light"...across screen "high temp Limp Mode"...I still had 4 un-used bars on the engine....but I will show this thread to HG when he gets home...thanks...how is everything in y'all world? Cathy doing well?

[Magdave]

It's true stock car racers know it. Not sure what BRP would think of it. AF prevents corrosion not sure what effect changing the ratio would have. Racers rebuild engines regularly.

[2Paw]

I remember my Dad used to drain the radiator of his truck at the beginning of the summer and then fill it with water, then in the late fall he would drain it again and fill it with antifreeze. Not very precise but maybe this is why he did it. I never asked nor did I care back then why he did it.

[Magdave]

One thing AF does is raise the boing point. A pressurized system does too.

[Ronbo]

We might be running too much anti freeze in the cooling system. Check out this web page.
http://www.challengers101.com/CoolantMix.html
david

Sounds like a simple thing that might really. Thanks for your post!

Ronbo. 2O13 RT LTD

[Chupaca]

will have to try this. We are in a never freeze area so would do fine with the 25/75 level. That would give us good protection as to corrosion yet thin out the mixture. Have tried the water wetter and ice solutions but never saw a change in temp. Though never over heats even in summer it may help all the other heat issues. If it helps will let you know...

[jcthorne]

For summer use where anti freeze protection is not a concern, there are coolant mixes that provide excellent anti corrosion properties and better cooling capacity. One well known mix in the sports car world is distilled water and the correct mix of Red Line Water Wetter. ( the WW is an excellent corrosion inhibitor for aluminum, iron and copper and works as a surfactant to lower surface tension of the water, thus increasing heat flow. The distilled water can carry more heat per unit volume than a 50-50 ethylene glycol mix. Remember, this provides NO freeze protection. I have run this mix in much more exotic engines than the Rotax for many years with great results. Do not use plain water or worse, tap water in your Spyder.

[OldCowboy]

One of the reasons antifreeze is frequently referred to as 'coolant' is because it raises the boiling point of the mixture, helping to keep the mixture in the cooling system as opposed to the overflow tube. Lowering the percentage of antifreeze to water can result in coolant loss, in addition to reduced corrosion protection.

[MouthPiece]

After talking with my service manager, and him saying that this article is "dead on", let's assume that there is a difference. My question is whether the difference is significant enough to reduce the heat that comes from the "lower black hole of hell"? My guy even suggested a product called "Engine Ice". Quite expensive, but effective.

Any thoughts or input?

Chris

[Magdave]

After talking with my service manager, and him saying that this article is "dead on", let's assume that there is a difference. My question is whether the difference is significant enough to reduce the heat that comes from the "lower black hole of hell"? My guy even suggested a product called "Engine Ice". Quite expensive, but effective.

Any thoughts or input?

Chris

Engine Ice, Water Wetter, Etc. all the same they act like a surfactant and keep the molecules closer together I believe.

[MouthPiece]

Engine Ice, Water Wetter, Etc. all the same they act like a surfactant and keep the molecules closer together I believe.

Okay. I'll bite. Which would?

Chris

[Warlock]

Okay. I'll bite. Which would?

Chris

Ok I changed both of my bikes today. My mixture was 70% water 30% anti freeze and 4 ounces of water wetter added. I actually put 38 ounces anti freeze, 4 ounces water wetter and filled the rest with distilled water to make a gallon. With this it stills protects between -5 and -10 degrees F and boiling point around 258 degrees. I saw a great heat drop in my Voyager, which has a temp gauge. At least 15 degrees drop. Took longer to get to the higher temps and once my fan did cut on took about 1/2 the time before it shut off. So far nothing but good results on this change over. Planning on using this in my wife RT. Of course make sure the anti freeze is for aluminum block engines. Plan on running this year round. When I changed it in the 900 it took quite a while just sitting and idling. I'm sure 75/25 will work, but some more has recommended the way I mixed it. Also I think engine ice is used with no other additives. Water wetter can be used with anti freeze.
david
l

[bruiser]

Bob, the 582 is a two stroke twin cylinder. Used on ultra lights. Friend of mine has a Blue Yonder Merlin with that engine.

[Warlock]

Warlock.....with my 2013 ST the engine has never ran hot....even when the "heat soak" incident...stopped for gas...start engine "high temp light"...across screen "high temp Limp Mode"...I still had 4 un-used bars on the engine....but I will show this thread to HG when he gets home...thanks...how is everything in y'all world? Cathy doing well?

Finished all her chemo. In the healing stage. Slow recovery. She seems to hurt all over. I hope time will give her better relief.
davud

[SNOOPY]

I think that this is good info and i thank you for posting it, i will say that i thought the more antifreeze the better but that does not appear to be the case. OK GURU's what do you think? can lowerering the antifreeze ratio in summer help???




Cruzr Joe

Yes.

When I race on track w/ my cars I run water w/ some water wetter, almost no anti-freeze.

2 Reasons, 1) antifreeze is slippery, if I have a spill it messes up the track. 2) No real reason for it, water wetter raises the boiling point where I need it....no need for anti-freeze.

The point....for a street vehicle you should have a proper mix of anti-freeze/ water or it can be non-productive...now what that point is...I'm not sure for a Spyder?

[NancysToy]

The use of plain deionized water (or the wrong coolant or too little coolant) in an aluminum engine will set up hydrolysis which will eventually destroy the engine. In northern climates the use of too little coolant can cause damage from freezing or severe overheating from blockage of the coolant flow by ice. The use of too little coolant in the mixture can lower the boiling point too far, causing boiling over, especially in hot climates or slow traffic. BRP specifies a 50:50 mixture of deionized water and ethylene glycol coolant approved for use in aluminum engines. Use of alternate substances or mixtures could cause warranty denial if a problem could be related to that use. Now you know the rules...use whatever you see fit, but understand that it is at your own risk.

[Warlock]

The use of plain deionized water (or the wrong coolant or too little coolant) in an aluminum engine will set up hydrolysis which will eventually destroy the engine. In northern climates the use of too little coolant can cause damage from freezing or severe overheating from blockage of the coolant flow by ice. The use of too little coolant in the mixture can lower the boiling point too far, causing boiling over, especially in hot climates or slow traffic. BRP specifies a 50:50 mixture of deionized water and ethylene glycol coolant approved for use in aluminum engines. Use of alternate substances or mixtures could cause warranty denial if a problem could be related to that use. Now you know the rules...use whatever you see fit, but understand that it is at your own risk.

Read the 50/50 mixture. Of course BRP in Canada doesn't experience the heat we do down here. Running a 50/50 mixture runs the engine hotter which can damage the engine. As we know BRP know best. Wonder why all the recall lately. Running the 70/30 with the water wetter I think will do well down here. Changed wifes RT to this. Things I noticed still running the same temps, but takes longer to get there and shorter time when the fan runs. Will still keep a eye on it and monitor it and see how it acts.
david

[condorflysu]

Interesting... They mention the Rotax 582; are they referring to the two=stroke enignes? (Or wouldn't it matter?)

2 stroke Ultra light aircraft motor. Next time I need to change my coolant, I'm using http://www.evanscooling.com/ it's the Rotax recommended coolant for the 4stroke Rotax 914T..

[AbNormy]

does anyone still use hydrometers to check the specific gravity of coolant? isn't that the antifreeze concentration? trying to remember last time I used one, always just changed it every 2 years on my cars, this is my first water cooled bike. but seems like it'd make sense to see where it's at and adjust with distilled water? just sayin...

[jcthorne]

The increase in boiling point of ethylene glycol / water mix over water / water wetter is insignificant compared to the boiling point increase caused by the pressure cap raising the system pressure. IE the boiling point increase from the coolant mix is only 5 to 6 deg compared to 40 and more from the pressure. The increase in cooling system capacity of water vs a glycol water mix is significantly higher than the small change in boiling point. If your engine runs anywhere near the 258 deg boiling point that the pressure cap provides, you are WAY too hot and have issues the coolant mix cannot solve. Bottom line is that the use of water wetter and distilled water will increase your cooling system capacity and provide great corrosion protection at the loss of freeze protection. In Houston, that is an easy choice with the toys staying inside a heated garage on those few days the temps are below freezing. For others, its your choice. But the coolant change is very effective. Water wetter added to an EG coolant mix does not offer all that much improvement, most of the coolant capacity increase is from the distilled water with no EG in the way.

[jcthorne]

2 stroke Ultra light aircraft motor. Next time I need to change my coolant, I'm using http://www.evanscooling.com/ it's the Rotax recommended coolant for the 4stroke Rotax 914T..

The evans coolant is an excellent product in the right application. It provides a boiling point far greater than a distilled water based coolant. BUT it also has a much lower heat capacity per unit volume. IE the same volume of coolant moved transfers less heat so while the boiling point is raised, the temps the engine will operate at are higher as well to overcome the loss of capacity. All else being equal. The evans works very well in diesel engines for example and can work well in small engines IF the cooling system is designed for it. As a replacement for water in cooling systems designed for water, it may not be the best choice.

[Bob Ledford]

We might be running too much anti freeze in the cooling system. Check out this web page.
http://www.challengers101.com/CoolantMix.html
david

Both web sites about wetter water and decreasing antifreeze ratiios. It makes reading sense from the authors view point and a scientific point of view. It would be worth the time and energies expended to see if it fact works as the author states it does.

There has to be a simple answer because not all of the 2013's are experiencing the running hot that we know about or of.