2013 Spyder ST Limited vs. 2008 Spyder GS

[sledmaster]

OK, so I just got done with a 75 mile test ride on a 2013 Can-Am Spyder ST Limited. This is a brand new model for 2013, positioned between the sporty rider-lean-forward RS/GS models and the decked out touring RT models that have the rider sitting almost straight up. I found the test ride to be quite revealing and wanted to share my impressions and observations with you; specifically in comparison to the original 2008 Spyder GS models, which I have two of and have ridden them for over 63,000 miles.

For anyone that owns a 2008-2012 GS or RS sport model, the new ST models for sure have gotten our attention as we have been waiting for something to upgrade to other than the full-touring RT models. The premise of having a riding position that is in-between the leaned-forward GS/RS and more upright RT is attractive, and Can-Am has smartly positioned the ST models as fitting in-between the RS and RT models to give us choices.

You can only get so much out of reading brochures or posts from other riders, so you really need to get out on one and do the comparison yourself. Of course, the seating position of the new ST is what you notice before you even start the engine, as you are much more upright and your feet are further forward, with the handlebars higher and further back. This was pleasant for my tall 6’ 4” frame. It was much closer to sitting on a REV XP snowmobile and not so much of a lean forward sport bike riding position. The seat was also noticeably softer than the stock seat on the GS/RS.

Once you fire it up you notice the RT-like features, things like the LCD display in-between the gauges. Sweet. The left and right hand control blocks on the handlebars have many more buttons and functions, but after a quick go-through they all make sense. The LCD menus seem to be intuitive and easy to navigate for a pleasant user interface. There’s also an adjustable windshield, which is nice to be able to set it high for cooler days or bug deflection, or set it lower for shorter riders or if you like the warm air in your face. You decide.

I had demo ridden several SE and RT models over the years, but am always impressed with how well the SE semi-automatic transmission works. Personally, I do not mind the control of the vehicle afforded by the SM-5 manual transmission, but I can appreciate how easy the SE-5 is. Smooth, easy to use, and the automatic downshifting to first gear is the best part of it. It shifts best when you stay into the throttle and don’t let off in the slightest. Once you get the hang of this, it is easy to operate, and almost boring to some degree that you don’t have to work a clutch. Old habits die hard.

Most revealing was how smooth and quiet the new ST Limited is. It was so much more refined than the 2008s I have. But at the same time, I was surprised at how the ST Limited is much closer to an RT than it is an RS/GS model. The power is noticeably down compared to my 2008s, with a flatter torque band and almost sluggish throttle response in comparison. This surprised me, as I had always chalked up that behavior on the RTs as being a touring model that weighed more, so on the ST I expected more. Now I understand the cries for more power from the RT crowd. My GS models really light up compared to this ST Limited.

The handling response was another surprise. While going straight down the road I really liked the smooth ride quality and cruising capability, but through the corners it was a huge eye-opener in terms of how soft the front end was, how much it wandered, and how much body roll there was. Way more like an RT than a GS/RS. This took some serious adjustment to try to compensate, as I was twitching all over the place through familiar corners. If there would be a single objection to the ST Limited compared to the 2008s I am used to, this is it. The handling was too vague, too isolated, too cushy. No way could I go charging through corners that I know very well with the same level of control and confidence, let alone at the same speed. Not a minor difference, I would say significant difference. Again, far more like an RT than a RS/GS.

I really liked the improved rider protection and adjustable windshield, and the larger mirrors are in a far better location for improved rear vision. The floorboards were noticeably comfortable, as you could move your feet around and not be so riveted to the pegs. But then there is the raised brake lever. It is positioned noticeably higher than the floorboards, where the brake lever used to be almost level with the foot pegs on previous models. Where before all you did was pivot or rock your foot on the peg to hit the brakes, with the raised lever on the 2013 it is a much more deliberate “raise and press” motion to get into the brakes. This almost got me into trouble the first few times I had to stop. I assume BRP did this to keep people from riding the brake lever, as the stability control “nanny” doesn’t like that (and neither do the brake pads), but for someone used to the brake lever on an older model this took more effort to lift the foot into the right location, compared to simply rocking it on the foot peg for actuation. I suppose one would get used to it, but this was something that stood out.

I could take about the cosmetics, but you can see that for yourself. The ST Limited just looks “new” compared to the 2008s, mostly from the new headlights and fenders. The new fenders are cool, the LED lights are cool, the added side reflectors are cool. Even the heated hand grips would be so very nice to have. But as I drove the 2013 ST Limited back to my Can-Am dealer, I had to seriously ask myself if I could justify over $20,000 for a new ride when what I have works so well. I would have a hard time with the different handling and the loss of power. I like how my GS models rail around the corners, I like how they have a stronger powerband, I like the firm response. I never thought of myself as an aggressive rider, but I am not ready to sit back and relax and go touring on an ST Limited quite yet. OK, I am only 50 years old and have logged over 63,000 miles on my two 2008 Spyders, and when I go for a ride I am out for 200-300 miles most every time, and while I would love the riding position and things like cruise control and the LCD display of the ST Limited, my personal preferences do not yet match up with the ST Limited. This is a highly refined vehicle and its performance was flawless, but it just isn’t “me”. Maybe in five more years.

I am very curious to learn if the ST-S has a different suspension calibration. The ST Limited is so very close to an RT in so many respects, so I would expect the ST-S to be even sportier in comparison. I would like to see the ST-S handle more like an RS/GS, but with the relaxed seating position. I realize that by virtue of the new seating position the handling is going to be different, but the shock/sway bar calibration can be sportier and give the ST-S tighter handling. I can only hope.

Of course, we could take an ST and install the Fox shock kit with the sway bar and that would certainly give us more of a front end response like what we’re used to, which might be your only option as there is no adjustable spring pre-load on the ST models. Where we could crank up the springs on a GS/RS, this option is gone. At only $400 this kit (219 400 409) is a great bargain and will give you the front end components of the RS-S package.

So in the end, while we expected the ST models to perform squarely in-between the RS and RT, the performance is far more like an RT than it is an RS. Not really a matter of right or wrong, but one of clever positioning on BRP’s part because they know their riders and they know what they want to buy. Considering the sales figures of RTs vs. RS models (they sell way more RTs than RS Spyders) it makes perfect sense for the ST to be more similar to the RT than the RS. Just know this if you are a current RS rider looking for a similar machine with a more relaxed riding position.

[BikerDoc]

I have test ridden both "2013 St ltd & Rt limited. Over 250 miles each & find the handling quality on both of them to be much worse than my 2010 or 2012 RT LTD s I appreciate the attempt by BRP to capture the best of both the RS & RT worlds but I think they have some work to do to make that a reality.

[Doug]

I have the 2013 ST Limited, first spyder I've owned or driven, so I can't compare, but your right about the cornering on curves. I'm seriously looking at the fox shocks c/w high performance sway bar, and you mentioned that you felt it would cure the cornering issue. I was hoping it would also help in high winds, transport passing at high speeds and overall performance down the straight away and curves. Would you agree with that, as I was also looking at the bajaron sway bar only, as another alternative, what are your thoughts

[mcaccamise]

My 2 cents as an 2012 RSS owner and have the Fox shocks and Ron bar this would be my choise for much better cornering and flat out ground hugging fun go for it.
Mike

[spydaman60]

I have a 2012 rss sm5 and I had the chance to test drive a 2013st sm5 during americade this year. I agree with the majority of the comparison by the op. it appears that there has to be more to it than the 100hp rotax in the st (same unit that has been in the rt since the beginning) versus the 106hp rotax in the 2012 and prior gs/rs's. I noticed quite a bit more sluggish response in the st and wonder what else is contributing to this? I did however like the electronic throttle and the feel of it. all in all, i'm sticking with my beast.

[sledmaster]

In your case, my opinion would be to (at a minimum) install a Bajaron swaybar. It is always a crap shoot for the factory to guess what kind of suspension calibration will make the target audience happy, and in the case of the ST (especially the Limited) it appears the decision was made to make it far more like the RT than the GS/RS models.

My post was really an attempt to inform the owners of an earlier model year GS/RS model what to expect if they should take a new ST Limited for a test ride. The GS/RS models have far better handling characteristics for precision cornering, even in stock form, where the ST has been aimed more at the comfort aspect. And realize we are talking primarily about a stock vehicle.

I believe the easiest and quickest way to tighten up the handling is with the installation of a Bajaron sway bar; that is the first thing you do. Then the traditional next step seems to be a different set of shocks. With the earlier GS/RS models many of us would simply bump up the tire pressure and crank up the front shock preload and the result was quite impressive by itself. If this wasn’t enough, then the Bajaron sway bar was next, then either a set of RT shocks or a set of Elkas. Now with the Fox shock and swaybar kit from the RS-S models being priced so competitively it is an attractive option for ST riders. One has to wonder about the pricing, maybe BRP anticipated this kind of objection to the ST handling from RS owners so they made this kit available at a reduced price for this purpose? Sure makes sense if they did. I would suspect the Bajaron swaybar is even better, so I would tend to agree with the suggestion of Fox shocks and Bajaron sway bar as being even better. I’m sure we could get Bajaron to weigh in on that.

[mcaccamise]

Im with ya wouldent trade for a new ST either any time soon the RSS just rocks.
Mike

[sledmaster]

For what it is worth, I have learned the ST Limited that I took out for the test ride did NOT have the front shocks replaced. Based on the handling behavior and the constant need for steering correction I would say this unit could very well be a candidate for that upgrade. This unit DID have the ball joint replacement performed. I will try to follow up on this if I get to ride the unit with new shocks installed.

This business about some of the 2103 front shocks not having enough damping is curious, must have been a supplier issue (whoever supplied the shocks) to Can-Am. That is a quality control issue that they have likely identified and now resolved, but if I had one of the units affected I would want to get a new set of shocks on there before the 3,000 km threshold for warranty replacement. As I understand it, not all of the 2013s are affected, and it is only being performed on units of specific serial numbers that exhibit the symptoms.

And, I did not notice any excess heat coming from the left side of this particular unit.

[Spyder Tony]

As the owner of an ST Limited, I agree with some of the points stated here and disagree with others. I have been test driving Can Am Spyders each year starting in 2010. I settled on the 2013 ST Ltd because I was happy with the performance aspect in addition to the comfort of the touring model (RT). I noticed no difference in response, speed, or handling than I do in the RS or RSS models. To this day, I still get loaner RSS models from the dealer when mine is in the shop. I am not sure if the ones some of you have been test driving have not been tuned, or had the suspension components replaced as per recall, but mine has all the acceleration and speed of the RS and RSS models I drive, as well as handles like a dream in the corners (lone exception is riding 2 up when cornering)...and I drive mine aggressively...more like a sport bike than a touring bike. I chose the ST because I felt better having my 7 year old son on the back of an ST (with the upright seating posture and ABS Brembo all around) rather than the other models. I, for one, think BRP did an excellent job blending the 2 models to create that hybrid style for those of us who want to still be on a sport bike, yet may need touring capabilities/comfort for the lifestyle they lead. BRP has managed to create a lineup of 3 cateories (Sport, Touring, and now Sport Touring) and choice is never a bad thing. I say variety is the spice of life.

[ARtraveler]

Great write up. Gives us a lot more points to ponder concerning the 2013 ST.

[Chupaca]

Have not tested the new models but appreciate the in depth review. It will be very helpful. It's what folks come here to see....thanks..!!

[kubie]

I put the Fox Racing Shock and Anti-Sway bar Kit on my ST-S It now handles almost like my old 2012 RS-S. It runs down the road at 70 mph with no sway or darting..... I can now pass 18 wheeler's with out worrying about being blown off the road! and changing wind gusts don't make me feel like I'm going to lose control and crash! But handling in corners still isn't as good as my RS-S. Its not near as bad as it was stalk. As a matter of fact its not something I would even mention if I wouldn't have owned the RS-S. and tweaking the shocks will probably fix this issue. I just haven't had the chance to Play with them yet!
In the end I think the Fox shock and anti-sway bar kit was my saving grace and I would recommend buying it..... I love My ST-S ("Quick Silver") That's her name! And I would NOT trade her for the world now! Just on a side note I had the ball joints replaced and had it aligned Twice. The First time was before the 2013 alignment procedures. and again when the 2013 procedures came out Both fixes helped But the Fox Kit made it Great!

Thanks

[quickster47]

kubie, I see in your signature you added the GloRyders to your ST. Did they fit without any modifications to the new wheels?

Thanks,

Carl

[Sarge707]

Thanks for your post!! I was at the dealer today again looking at the ST and thinking of trading the GS with 26,000 miles BUT you reminded me I would be buying a RT (Which I already have) BUT about 70 pounds lighter?
I Love my RT and can throw it around pretty good BUT theres something about the Brutal accelleration of the 698 Pound GS/RS that is special and the nimbleness of it! So your post saved me a Lot of $$$$!!!

[kubie]

kubie, I see in your signature you added the GloRyders to your ST. Did they fit without any modifications to the new wheels?

Thanks,

Carl

Yep.... You just remove the plastic center and they fit right in!

[quickster47]

Yep.... You just remove the plastic center and they fit right in!

That is great news. Thanks for the info.

Carl

[BajaRon]

In your case, my opinion would be to (at a minimum) install a Bajaron swaybar. It is always a crap shoot for the factory to guess what kind of suspension calibration will make the target audience happy, and in the case of the ST (especially the Limited) it appears the decision was made to make it far more like the RT than the GS/RS models.

My post was really an attempt to inform the owners of an earlier model year GS/RS model what to expect if they should take a new ST Limited for a test ride. The GS/RS models have far better handling characteristics for precision cornering, even in stock form, where the ST has been aimed more at the comfort aspect. And realize we are talking primarily about a stock vehicle.

I believe the easiest and quickest way to tighten up the handling is with the installation of a Bajaron sway bar; that is the first thing you do. Then the traditional next step seems to be a different set of shocks. With the earlier GS/RS models many of us would simply bump up the tire pressure and crank up the front shock preload and the result was quite impressive by itself. If this wasn’t enough, then the Bajaron sway bar was next, then either a set of RT shocks or a set of Elkas. Now with the Fox shock and swaybar kit from the RS-S models being priced so competitively it is an attractive option for ST riders. One has to wonder about the pricing, maybe BRP anticipated this kind of objection to the ST handling from RS owners so they made this kit available at a reduced price for this purpose? Sure makes sense if they did. I would suspect the Bajaron swaybar is even better, so I would tend to agree with the suggestion of Fox shocks and Bajaron sway bar as being even better. I’m sure we could get Bajaron to weigh in on that.

The BRP Fox shock and RSS sway bar upgrade is definitely a bargain. But you will find that if you put just the sway bar on, not much changes. It is the Fox shock that is doing the lion's share of improvement with this upgrade. When you put both on at the same time it's impossible to know what is doing what. You just know things are better.

As I've said before, I had not planned to do a sway bar for the 2013 RS, ST series because of the BRP upgrade. It wasn't until I began getting inquiries from 2013 RSS owners (and ST owners who had installed the RSS sway bar), that I decided to look into it. I found that there was still a lot of room left for a better sway bar over the BRP upgrade bar.

Hopefully, a few of the ST owners who have installed the Bajaron Sway Bar will post.

[sledmaster]

I read what “Kubie” said here and thought long and hard about it. When I heard about the rebate and the three year warranty, even with the heat issues so many are talking about, I went and got myself a new 2013 ST-S SE-5 Circuit Yellow. That was last Monday.

Since then I have got 1434 miles on it. Just yesterday I took off at 8 AM and rode out to the Missouri River in South Dakota and back by 5 PM. The temps got up to 95 degrees for much of the day, and it was a 546 mile ride. Great day!

I had removed the upper left side panel and lined it with Thermaflect insulated heat tape, so I can tell you that heat was really never an issue with this Spyder since I got it. If it doesn’t get really hot on a 546 miles ride at 95 degrees, who knows.

It did take me about 429 miles to get acclimated to the handling compared to the 2008 GS models I had 65,000 miles on, but now I am used to it I can make it work well. Already have the Bajaron sway bar, will put that on soon.

The engine is starting to loosen up, but I do run out of throttle far faster than with either of the 2008s. The powerband is flatter but more linear. The fuel economy seems to be slightly better as well. The riding position and comfort is no contest, the ST-S wins hands down compared to a stock 2008 GS. It is quieter, smoother, overall I am impressed so far.