With all the heat issues we ST owners have been having with hot left legs and some (including me) having the plastic cap on the master cylinder melt due to heat, I thought I would post some photos of what I did to alleviate the heat and what my dealer did. The 1st photo shows the exhaust pipe on the left side wrapped with exhaust wrap that can be found at most any auto store. I wrapped this pipe myself. The next photo shows the inside plastic panel and the outside panel that says Can-Am wrapped with reflective heat tape. The photo to the left shows the tape that is available at most auto stores, also. This has cut the heat down from "death valley" before, to a warm summer day after. I am not a mechanic, but this was easy to do and took about 45 minutes from start to finish. The photo below shows the right side with all four panels off. The brake master cylinder is to the left with the reflective heat tape wrapped around it, and the exhaust pipe is in front of it at the right of the photo. I put the exhaust wrap on the pipe, and the dealer wrapped the master cylinder cap once it was replaced. If you own an ST, please check your plastic MC cap to see if the heat is melting it. If you don't know how to remove the right 4 panels or don't have the time, get your dealer to do it. You don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere if you lose all your brake fluid. Should you have questions about either of these fixes, please call or email me. I'll be happy to help.
On my 2013 Spyder RT-S I double wrapped exhaust header pipes.
Installed HP sticky reflective heat shield around Brembo brake master cylinder.
Installed Hp sticky reflective heat shield around gas tank; & over #2 cylinder to keep heat off seat & gas tank.
Gas cap now 116 deg; gas 128 deg & not boiling after ride in hot 105 deg Tucson Arizona temps.
Should help 2013 Spyder ST's also.
Probably don't need as much heat shield around gas tank as I put on; but seeing gas boiling in tank was an eye opener for me!!
Put in #9 Iridium colder running sparkplugs. (engine runs a little richer fuel ratio after Len at Pit Bull flashed ECM).
Installed Y bypass pipes & wrapped them, (Cat converter removed). (gets rid of the exhaust heat without Cat).
Had 2 Bros muffler put on for free flowing exhaust.
Hope this helps others with ST/RT heat problems.
Jim
Last edited by spyderyderjim; 07-14-2013 at 09:14 AM.
PittBull and Mark wrapped the right side pipe, cut the right side heat shield off...wrapped the left pipe, installed a larger heat shield , to cover the brake master cylinder...installed reflective heat shield to gas tank, master cylinder...did a flash on the fuel mix to help with running lean [richen up the air/fuel]...after 350 miles the heat issue seems much better...no more extreme heat coming from handlebar area, gas cap is not hot, the bike appears to be running smoother...was getting 34mpg compared to 19 - 30 before...I'll be putting some miles on the bike this week and will keep ya updated...will post pics later...hey Spyderpops....that looks real good..we.think it will work
Last edited by flamingobabe; 07-14-2013 at 07:26 AM.
Glad you have your back. I know how you want things to be right and I am sure that Pitbull and Mark will do that. Will be waiting to hear how things are going with the heat issues.
Bruce
Originally Posted by flamingobabe
PittBull and Mark wrapped the right side pipe, cut the right side heat shield off...wrapped the left pipe, installed a larger heat shield , to cover the brake master cylinder...installed reflective heat shield to gas tank, master cylinder...did a flash on the fuel mix to help with running lean [richen up the air/fuel]...after 350 miles the heat issue seems much better...no more extreme heat coming from handlebar area, gas cap is not hot, the bike appears to be running smoother...was getting 34mpg compared to 19 - 30 before...I'll be putting some miles on the bike this week and will keep ya updated...will post pics later...hey Spyderpops....that looks real good..we.think it will work
I've stated this before and I'll state it again, fiberglass or basalt pipe wrap is not an effective solution for heat issues. One eighth inch of such an insulation is simply not going to stop 900+ °F of constant heat emission. The best it can do is block some minor amount of infrared radiation, heat from conduction and convection will pass right through within minutes. It's one thing to believe the hype that thin pipe wrap can solve the burning legs issue which is relatively harmless, it's a whole other thing to believe it will prevent the master cylinder from melting which can be a life or death situation. Do not be fooled into believing pipe wrap alone can work. It would take at least six inches of an effective insulation to reduce heat due to conduction and convection from the exhaust pipes from reaching the plastic reservoir.
You can reduce or even prevent infrared radiation using a substantial reflective barrier, but heat is transmitted three ways, not just one, via radiation, conduction and convection. Think of the oven in an electric kitchen stove. You could block almost all the infrared heat from the oven's heating elements with foil or a steel sheet but the oven will still easily come up to full temperature by convection alone. It's the same problem here, the exhaust pipe is effectively a massive heating element. If either radiation, conduction, and/or convection allow the heat from the pipes to exceed the melting point of the plastic reservoir, the problem remains. You can't just deal with radiation alone and hope the problem is resolved, you have to address all three methods of heat transfer for a totally effective solution. When it comes to 900+ °F of constant heat, convection is as much if not more of an issue then radiation. Anything thin and/or reflective is only an attempt to stop radiation, not conduction or convection.
Do not accept pipe wrap or any other unsubstantial, unproven insulation as a final solution for the melting master cylinder issue. You could be endangering your life. This is a very serious problem and warrants a serious and proven solution by the manufacturer. I feel BRP should replace the plastic reservoir with a steel reservoir to effectively resolve this issue.
After seeing Spyderpops heat shield mentioned by Lamont in this thread and also reading what pro10is published, I thought I would go back and try to add extra protection to the master cylinder. I went back to the auto store and bought a heat shield wrap that says it gives 2000 degree protection from radiant heat. I cut some of the shield and doubledVisitedStatesMap.jpeg it, and wedged it between the exhaust pipe and the MC. I also used a piece to wrap around the plastic cap that already has the heat tape around it. Finally, I removed the bottom plastic panel that sits under the MC and brake pedal to give more area for heat to escape. If this doesn't keep heat off the MC plastic cap, I don't know what will.DSC_0011.jpgDSC_0013.jpgDSC_0009.jpg
I've stated this before and I'll state it again, fiberglass or basalt pipe wrap is not an effective solution for heat issues. One eighth inch of such an insulation is simply not going to stop 900+ °F of constant heat emission. The best it can do is block some minor amount of infrared radiation, heat from conduction and convection will pass right through within minutes. It's one thing to believe the hype that thin pipe wrap can solve the burning legs issue which is relatively harmless, it's a whole other thing to believe it will prevent the master cylinder from melting which can be a life or death situation. Do not be fooled into believing pipe wrap alone can work. It would take at least six inches of an effective insulation to reduce heat due to conduction and convection from the exhaust pipes from reaching the plastic reservoir.
You can reduce or even prevent infrared radiation using a substantial reflective barrier, but heat is transmitted three ways, not just one, via radiation, conduction and convection. Think of the oven in an electric kitchen stove. You could block almost all the infrared heat from the oven's heating elements with foil or a steel sheet but the oven will still easily come up to full temperature by convection alone. It's the same problem here, the exhaust pipe is effectively a massive heating element. If either radiation, conduction, and/or convection allow the heat from the pipes to exceed the melting point of the plastic reservoir, the problem remains. You can't just deal with radiation alone and hope the problem is resolved, you have to address all three methods of heat transfer for a totally effective solution. When it comes to 900+ °F of constant heat, convection is as much if not more of an issue then radiation. Anything thin and/or reflective is only an attempt to stop radiation, not conduction or convection.
Do not accept pipe wrap or any other unsubstantial, unproven insulation as a final solution for the melting master cylinder issue. You could be endangering your life. This is a very serious problem and warrants a serious and proven solution by the manufacturer. I feel BRP should replace the plastic reservoir with a steel reservoir to effectively resolve this issue.
Is there space under the bottom, near the cat converter to install a flat 12volt 9" high velocity racing fan to remove the convective heat? Could you get enough air moving under the Tupperware?
After seeing Spyderpops heat shield mentioned by Lamont in this thread and also reading what pro10is published, I thought I would go back and try to add extra protection to the master cylinder. I went back to the auto store and bought a heat shield wrap that says it gives 2000 degree protection from radiant heat. I cut some of the shield and doubledVisitedStatesMap.jpeg it, and wedged it between the exhaust pipe and the MC. I also used a piece to wrap around the plastic cap that already has the heat tape around it. Finally, I removed the bottom plastic panel that sits under the MC and brake pedal to give more area for heat to escape. If this doesn't keep heat off the MC plastic cap, I don't know what will.DSC_0011.jpgDSC_0013.jpgDSC_0009.jpg
The Plastic piece under the Right side (Brake Side) lets a LOT more heat escape than the left side (Oil Change) piece!!
I have taken off both bottom pieces on my 2012 RT and it was 95 today with a 72 Dew Point or 100 Degrees equivalent and I only ran 4 bars most of the afternoon? Take Both pieces off and anyones Spyder will see a Big difference!!!
After seeing Spyderpops heat shield mentioned by Lamont in this thread and also reading what pro10is published, I thought I would go back and try to add extra protection to the master cylinder. I went back to the auto store and bought a heat shield wrap that says it gives 2000 degree protection from radiant heat. I cut some of the shield and doubled it, and wedged it between the exhaust pipe and the MC. I also used a piece to wrap around the plastic cap that already has the heat tape around it. Finally, I removed the bottom plastic panel that sits under the MC and brake pedal to give more area for heat to escape. If this doesn't keep heat off the MC plastic cap, I don't know what will.
I really wish this or any of the solutions posted here could work but it's not likely. Again think of your kitchen oven. If you heated it up to its maximum temperature of 500 °F (which is still low compared to the 900+ °F heat coming from the exhaust) and you put a potato inside the oven do you think you could stop it from cooking just by wrapping it in layers of foil or thin insulation? You're only stopping radiated heat, you're not stopping convective heat which will soak right through the thin insulation within minutes. It may take a tad longer but the potato is going to get hot enough to cook it thoroughly just as if the insulation was never there. In fact the insulation may even help cook it better by retaining some of the heat.
Your plastic brake reservoir is in the same predicament as the potato. The only way to keep it cool is to either get it away from the heat of the exhaust or to try to dissipate the convective heat via substantial air flow or something. Insulation such as this just isn't going to do the trick. The best you can do with such insulation is to try to keep the heat just below the melting point of the plastic long enough to survive the duration of the ride. However this method may still leave you stranded without brakes when you take that two hour trip on a very hot day. I certainly wouldn't trust my life with it.
What needs to be done is to either move the plastic reservoir away from the exhaust pipe or replace it with something that can take the heat such as metal. Even then heating the brake fluid so high is never good idea. When brake fluid gets hot it can boil. When it boils you will have gas in your lines and since gas, unlike fluid, is compressible you will no longer have brakes.
In any event this is very serious. No one should be coming up with their own makeshift solutions, this need to be resolved by BRP. Anyone offering a possible solution to others for this needs to scientifically test it very thoroughly, prove it works beyond a shadow of a doubt, and assume the responsibility of a possible fatality if it doesn't. Were talking people's lives here folks, not just hot legs.
I really wish this or any of the solutions posted here could work but it's not likely. Again think of your kitchen oven. If you heated it up to its maximum temperature of 500 °F (which is still low compared to the 900+ °F heat coming from the exhaust) and you put a potato inside the oven do you think you could stop it from cooking just by wrapping it in layers of foil or thin insulation? You're only stopping radiated heat, you're not stopping convective heat which will soak right through the thin insulation within minutes. It may take a tad longer but the potato is going to get hot enough to cook it thoroughly just as if the insulation was never there. In fact the insulation may even help cook it better by retaining some of the heat.
Your plastic brake reservoir is in the same predicament as the potato. The only way to keep it cool is to either get it away from the heat of the exhaust or to try to dissipate the convective heat via substantial air flow or something. Insulation such as this just isn't going to do the trick. The best you can do with such insulation is to try to keep the heat just below the melting point of the plastic long enough to survive the duration of the ride. However this method may still leave you stranded without brakes when you take that two hour trip on a very hot day. I certainly wouldn't trust my life with it.
What needs to be done is to either move the plastic reservoir away from the exhaust pipe or replace it with something that can take the heat such as metal. Even then heating the brake fluid so high is never good idea. When brake fluid gets hot it can boil. When it boils you will have gas in your lines and since gas, unlike fluid, is compressible you will no longer have brakes.
In any event this is very serious. No one should be coming up with their own makeshift solutions, this need to be resolved by BRP. Anyone offering a possible solution to others for this needs to scientifically test it very thoroughly, prove it works beyond a shadow of a doubt, and assume the responsibility of a possible fatality if it doesn't. Were talking people's lives here folks, not just hot legs.
Is BRP addressing this issue? Are they going to replace the plastic caps with metal ones? I brought up all the extra heat complaints to my dealership last week when I took my Spyder (ST-L) in for its first maintenance, and the tech said he'd do some research regarding my complaint, but it doesn't seem like he's getting many "heat" complaints or has seen the "melted plastic cap" issue.... so just wondering.....
We took the bottom panel off of the left side and I rode for a little under 200 miles - The hot air coming from the opening was so uncomfortable I had to keep adjusting my leg to keep from getting burned and the left side still gets so hot I can hardly touch it. It's dangerous - I'm so busy concentrating on not burning myself I cannot give proper attention to the road. I have exhaust wrapped the exhaust pipe and silicone sprayed it and we've added heat deflector sheets to the panels - no luck yet ...
Originally Posted by Sarge707
The Plastic piece under the Right side (Brake Side) lets a LOT more heat escape than the left side (Oil Change) piece!!
I have taken off both bottom pieces on my 2012 RT and it was 95 today with a 72 Dew Point or 100 Degrees equivalent and I only ran 4 bars most of the afternoon? Take Both pieces off and anyones Spyder will see a Big difference!!!
Is BRP addressing this issue? Are they going to replace the plastic caps with metal ones? I brought up all the extra heat complaints to my dealership last week when I took my Spyder (ST-L) in for its first maintenance, and the tech said he'd do some research regarding my complaint, but it doesn't seem like he's getting many "heat" complaints or has seen the "melted plastic cap" issue.... so just wondering.....
Why do we keep reading that this dealer or that doesn't know about the heat issues with the 2013? How does BRP relate these known issues to the dealer?
I purchased my ST last month. Left side hot, hot, hot. I'm not technically competent or knowledgeable as many of your other members. All I know is that it's uncomfortable to drive and dangerous - so hot that it's uncomfortable to touch after only 8 miles and the screws holding the panels would leave a scar from the burn. After reading several posts we wrapped and silicone coated the exhaust and added heat deflection sheets to the panels. Not quite so many hot spots but the area where the two panels (and surrounding areas) come together under my leg still gets unbearably hot, along with the screws. We thought perhaps all that plastic is trapping the heat from the engine underneath the plastic so John removed the bottom panel from the left side - unfortunately it just let all that hot air blow all over my leg (not too bright huh? . Anyway, frustrated - it's dangerous, I spend too much time concentrating on how to keep my leg cool and not enough on the road. Do you think this deflector will solve the problem and do you have any idea when it will be coming out?
I've stated this before and I'll state it again, fiberglass or basalt pipe wrap is not an effective solution for heat issues. One eighth inch of such an insulation is simply not going to stop 900+ °F of constant heat emission. The best it can do is block some minor amount of infrared radiation, heat from conduction and convection will pass right through within minutes. It's one thing to believe the hype that thin pipe wrap can solve the burning legs issue which is relatively harmless, it's a whole other thing to believe it will prevent the master cylinder from melting which can be a life or death situation. Do not be fooled into believing pipe wrap alone can work. It would take at least six inches of an effective insulation to reduce heat due to conduction and convection from the exhaust pipes from reaching the plastic reservoir.
You can reduce or even prevent infrared radiation using a substantial reflective barrier, but heat is transmitted three ways, not just one, via radiation, conduction and convection. Think of the oven in an electric kitchen stove. You could block almost all the infrared heat from the oven's heating elements with foil or a steel sheet but the oven will still easily come up to full temperature by convection alone. It's the same problem here, the exhaust pipe is effectively a massive heating element. If either radiation, conduction, and/or convection allow the heat from the pipes to exceed the melting point of the plastic reservoir, the problem remains. You can't just deal with radiation alone and hope the problem is resolved, you have to address all three methods of heat transfer for a totally effective solution. When it comes to 900+ °F of constant heat, convection is as much if not more of an issue then radiation. Anything thin and/or reflective is only an attempt to stop radiation, not conduction or convection.
Do not accept pipe wrap or any other unsubstantial, unproven insulation as a final solution for the melting master cylinder issue. You could be endangering your life. This is a very serious problem and warrants a serious and proven solution by the manufacturer. I feel BRP should replace the plastic reservoir with a steel reservoir to effectively resolve this issue.
I guess i am lucky I have two dealers that i go to that must be very honest. When i went in for my first service for my ST Limited I mentioned the heat issues. The well trained tech at first said nothing. I said you don't have to give me the normal response that you never heard of this before. He said to me that he did hear of heat issues. So i wanted them to wrap my exhaust pipes to help with the issue if they thought it would help. The tech talked to the service manager and he told me he didn't think it would help. They had no solution but they didn't take my money either.
Pro...
I don't really mean to try and contradict you... You sure seem to have forgotten more about this sort of this than I'll ever even begin to know.
But folks aren't looking to stop ALL of the heat; they just need to reduce it to an acceptable level.
If we're hearing postiive reports from the folks who have made these mods; Why try to rain on their Parade?
(Sorry...)
Bob I agree with you. I also appreciate what Pro said, but if we owners have to park our Spyders and wait on BRP to do something, we could possibly be waiting months and miss the best part of the riding season. I agree that we can't block all the heat, but if we can get it low enough not to melt plastic MC caps or burn our legs, then we are at least doing SOMETHING! By reading this forum, I think that sometimes we Spyder owners collectively can help the BRP engineers solve a problem by suggesting homemade solutions. Thanks for speaking up for us that are trying to solve the problem.
First I'll address that BRP has been working with me and Dealer, PitBUll....Mark and I decided that we would wrap the pipes, with 2" wrap, overlapping 1", using stainless steel clamps, near master cylinder Mark cut off heat shield, double wrapped the pipe in that area, then installed a larger heat shield that is temporary until we get home and he can design and build a permanent heat shield.....where the pipes are wrapped over the heat shield on others spyders...Mark believes this is not a good thing...that is why he cut mine off and installed a larger temp one until we get home....wrapping the pipes does not make no heat on the Spyder , but it allows the BTU's to flow fast out the exhaust, thus appearing that there is less heat...Mark can explain this better...BRP did a flash on the ECM to address the engine running lean....I have put 600 miles on the Spyder after this and it appears the Spyder is running smoother and getting better gas mileage ...time will tell...I can say that doing these 2 things, wrap pipes and Flash from BRP, I have less heat coming out of the handlebar area, seat area, and over all....the panels still get warm...but not HOT....Mark decides that we would only do 2 things some we could measure the results...rather than doing several things and not know what actually worked...we will go back to PitBull on Saturday and check everything out...................just saying...My concerns about the heat was NEVER about a hot foot or leg...I can move them around...but I was having excessive heat at gas cap, too hot to touch, boiling gas, extreme heat at handlebar area...those seem to have disappeared
Last edited by flamingobabe; 07-15-2013 at 08:22 AM.
Pro...
I don't really mean to try and contradict you... You sure seem to have forgotten more about this sort of this than I'll ever even begin to know.
But folks aren't looking to stop ALL of the heat; they just need to reduce it to an acceptable level.
If we're hearing postiive reports from the folks who have made these mods; Why try to rain on their Parade?
(Sorry...)
Bob,
Please don't get me wrong, my intention is not to rain on anyone's parade and I applaud owners' attempts to try to resolve the problem, however misguided. I'm just very concerned due to two reasons. One, these are brakes we're dealing with here and thus people's lives are at stake, and two, there seems to be a gross misconception on how heat transfers because the attempts at resolving the problem thus far use unscientific and inadequate measures to provide an effective solution. I'm very concerned that anyone may offer or even try to sell these unproven, untested makeshift modifications to people who may believe they will be safe after installing them. We're talking melting brake components here, am I the only one greatly alarmed by this?
For a problem as serious as this anyone who has a vehicle involved should immediately file a report with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ to make the NHTSA aware of the problem and possibly force a recall. Any design deficiency that could potentially result in the loss of brakes, especially on a motorcycle, should most definitely not be handled by the owners of the vehicles themselves or by any third party. Rather the manufacturer should issue an immediate recall and do whatever is necessary to make the vehicles safe for operation.
let me say something else...when the master cylinder was replaced...and Mark made them bleed the brakes...the fluid was black and gummy...suppose to be clear..so if and when a master cylinder is replace ...everything has to be replaced ....and concerns about this problem is very serious...I have not rode my Spyder since finding the cylinder melted and BRP asked me not to ride it....we trailered the Spyder to PitBUll...750 miles
let me say something else...when the master cylinder was replaced...and Mark made them bleed the brakes...the fluid was black and gummy...suppose to be clear..so if and when a master cylinder is replace ...everything has to be replaced ....and concerns about this problem is very serious...I have not rode my Spyder since finding the cylinder melted and BRP asked me not to ride it....we trailered the Spyder to PitBUll...750 miles
Identify what you have control over and find peace with what you don't.
First I'll address that BRP has been working with me and Dealer, PitBUll....Mark and I decided that we would wrap the pipes, with 2" wrap, overlapping 1", using stainless steel clamps, near master cylinder Mark cut off heat shield, double wrapped the pipe in that area, then installed a larger heat shield that is temporary until we get home and he can design and build a permanent heat shield.....where the pipes are wrapped over the heat shield on others spyders...Mark believes this is not a good thing...that is why he cut mine off and installed a larger temp one until we get home....wrapping the pipes does not make no heat on the Spyder , but it allows the BTU's to flow fast out the exhaust, thus appearing that there is less heat...Mark can explain this better...BRP did a flash on the ECM to address the engine running lean....I have put 600 miles on the Spyder after this and it appears the Spyder is running smoother and getting better gas mileage ...time will tell...I can say that doing these 2 things, wrap pipes and Flash from BRP, I have less heat coming out of the handlebar area, seat area, and over all....the panels still get warm...but not HOT....Mark decides that we would only do 2 things some we could measure the results...rather than doing several things and not know what actually worked...we will go back to PitBull on Saturday and check everything out...................just saying...My concerns about the heat was NEVER about a hot foot or leg...I can move them around...but I was having excessive heat at gas cap, too hot to touch, boiling gas, extreme heat at handlebar area...those seem to have disappeared
I'm heading to Montreal in a couple of days and have been working to get my heat under control. So far I pulled both of the splash pans off the bottom and wrapped the left pipe about a foot. I ordered this for the 90 on that side and it should be here Tuesday. http://www.thermotec.com/products/11...at-shield.html
I'm not so sure that cutting the heat shield off was a good idea on yours, as you can see in the link that part of what makes this work is it has built in standoffs in the cover. To me it makes more sense to have that air space there. My temp gun will tell me for sure.
I've also added some 2000 degree heat barrier on the left side where my leg was getting hot. This and the pipe wrap seemed to help a bunch and when Harvey gets here on Wednesday we have a few areas we're going to close off that I know for sure is letting heat in. The one thing that's cooking me is my right foot with these floorboards. I shot the temps right above my foot and it's 176 degrees. We have some ideas how to get that temp down too.
We all have our ways of solving the same problem and as long as it works for you that's what counts. I'm getting there with the mods I've done but still not where I want to be and on this 2000 mile trip this weekend I want to be as cool as I can be. Maybe I'll pull it all off this winter.
ATTN: ST OWNERS!
back. I know how you want things to be right and I am sure that Pitbull and Mark will do that. Will be waiting to hear how things are going with the heat issues. 
Originally Posted by flamingobabe
. Anyway, frustrated - it's dangerous, I spend too much time concentrating on how to keep my leg cool and not enough on the road. Do you think this deflector will solve the problem and do you have any idea when it will be coming out?
