AWESOME combo: Shock Relocator--Swaybar--Elka shocks

[Neez]

Your post is much appreciated and anyone following your recommendations will almost assuredly enjoy better handling performance from their Spyder. However I'd just like to point out one perpetuating misconception that might be interpreted from your recommendations. For strictly reducing body roll in the corners high performance shocks are not vital. If your primary goal is to reduce body roll in the corners you need only add the improved anti-sway bar and (optionally) a greater spring preload. Yes, high performance shocks certainly do allow for a higher spring preload but you can also achieve this by increasing the preload on your stock shocks and, as you do mention, with RT shocks on a GS/RS which have stiffer springs. Alternately you can simply purchase stiffer springs for any shocks. Purchasing very expensive high performance shocks solely to increase spring preload is not a good use of your mod money. In fact with a spring load so stiff as to reduce the actual shock from actuating, the value of performance shocks is even further reduced.

This has nothing to do with Faran's post but I'd also like to take this opportunity to point out that, unlike the anti-sway bar, increasing preload on your springs too much will adversely affect your ride comfort and possibly your safety. If you do decide to increase the preload on your springs you'll need to find a compromise that best suits your needs between reduced body roll, ride comfort, and safety. I recommend only increasing the spring preload until the ride comfort becomes unacceptable to you and then backing off. Don't try to eliminate all roll, this may actually be dangerous. A bit of body roll is perfectly normal and will not reduce your actual cornering performance much if at all. However most people do not like the sensation of body roll which may cause them to back off a bit on corners (which may actually be a good thing safety wise). A stiffer spring rate may also increase the possibility of lifting the inside wheel and significantly reducing the suspension systems ability to properly track the road especially when bumpy or when you hit a road hazard. Do you really want a spring rate so stiff as to reduce the ability of your suspension system to perform it's function just to lessen body roll a bit? If you do it makes little sense to purchase performance shocks because you're not giving them a chance to do their job.

So why purchase high performance shocks? Well if you're looking for significantly improved performance on rough or bumpy roads this can be one of your best investments. If you like to ride hard and fast on less than ideal roads, high performance shocks with their superior valving and heat dissipation will give you the best and safest ride possible. Buy performance shock for this reason, not just to increase spring preload which is a misuse of performance shocks imho. Ironically high performance shocks can also improve your safety in the corners but only if you let them do their jobs by not setting the spring rate so high so they can actually actuate enough to dampen shocks and sway which is their real function. If you set the spring rate so high that they can hardly move then you severely reduce their performance and your safety.

Bottom line: Know what your performance goals are before you spend your money. Know precisely what each component you purchase will do and how it does it. Finally know exactly how your modifications will affect the performance and safety of your ride.

I very much appreciate your insights here, but I would appreciate your views on the shock relocators. My ride is a GS SE5 with Evo bar and RT shocks and springs. I run higher than called for tire pressures and all my spring adjusters are on the tightest notches, and I only use a 1 inch bar riser. I live for twisty canyon roads, and unlike most Spyderlovers, I don't give a rip about comfort as I rarely do more than 350 miles in a day. Any thoughts on the relocators?

[BajaRon]

I very much appreciate your insights here, but I would appreciate your views on the shock relocators. My ride is a GS SE5 with Evo bar and RT shocks and springs. I run higher than called for tire pressures and all my spring adjusters are on the tightest notches, and I only use a 1 inch bar riser. I live for twisty canyon roads, and unlike most Spyderlovers, I don't give a rip about comfort as I rarely do more than 350 miles in a day. Any thoughts on the relocators?

I know this is a shameless plug, but the Bar I sell for the RS is stiffer than the EVO bar. I had the EVO bar on my Spyder for several thousand miles. I knew my bar was stiffer but I was surprised that it made a noticeable difference when I swapped them out.

Same size, different steel.

[Bob Denman]

I know this is a shameless plug, but the Bar I sell for the RS is stiffer than the EVO bar.

That's okay Ron; We've all been shamelessly plugging them for you too!

[pro10is]

I know this is a shameless plug, but the Bar I sell for the RS is stiffer than the EVO bar. I had the EVO bar on my Spyder for several thousand miles. I knew my bar was stiffer but I was surprised that it made a noticeable difference when I swapped them out.

Same size, different steel.

I can confirm this. I have an EVO bar on my RS-S. A friend let me borrow his BajaRon bar while he was on vacation for a week. The BajaRon bar performed significantly better. I was not expecting this because they were the same diameter so I made the swap several more times to compare them again and again. The BajaRon bar is indeed better. It also has superior mounting.

I would recommend the BajaRon bar as a significant upgrade to anyone who owns an EVO bar.

[Neez]

I can confirm this. I have an EVO bar on my RS-S. A friend let me borrow his BajaRon bar while he was on vacation for a week. The BajaRon bar performed significantly better. I was not expecting this because they were the same diameter so I made the swap several more times to compare them again and again. The BajaRon bar is indeed better. It also has superior mounting.

I would recommend the BajaRon bar as a significant upgrade to anyone who owns an EVO bar.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Now I have 2 suspension mods to try, the Bajabar and the relocators. I also note your advice on safety and I assure you that after any mod, I bring my speeds up gradually and carefully. So far I haven't gotten out of shape in the corners, but I will heed your caution about over-springing. I won't chuck the Evo till I'm sure the Bajabar isn't overkill on my rig.

[daveinva]

I know this is a shameless plug, but the Bar I sell for the RS is stiffer than the EVO bar. I had the EVO bar on my Spyder for several thousand miles. I knew my bar was stiffer but I was surprised that it made a noticeable difference when I swapped them out.

Same size, different steel.

Huh... how the heck could I have never heard that before, Ron?

Great, now I've gotta think about replacing my EVO bar, too...

[pro10is]

I very much appreciate your insights here, but I would appreciate your views on the shock relocators. My ride is a GS SE5 with Evo bar and RT shocks and springs. I run higher than called for tire pressures and all my spring adjusters are on the tightest notches, and I only use a 1 inch bar riser. I live for twisty canyon roads, and unlike most Spyderlovers, I don't give a rip about comfort as I rarely do more than 350 miles in a day. Any thoughts on the relocators?

Even if you don't care about comfort, you shouldn't compromise safety. Increasing the spring rate (as well as tire pressures) beyond reason can compromise safety so please go easy. Proper suspension and tire performance is much more important to improved handling performance than just dialing out the body roll by severely restricting suspension movement or making the tires too hard. You don't want to starve Peter by feeding Paul. You want moderation and balance so all suspension components can function properly. You can't cheat physics and you shouldn't try, it'll win every time.

I don't own a set of the relocators yet so I hesitate to comment but I have been following the development of them for quite some time. In fact I actually worked with an expert mechanical engineer friend of mine and we developed a set of our own on SolidWorks Premium, a professional (and very expensive) 3D CAD modeling program. We then did a market analysis and found we could manufacture and sell them for less than $100 a set and still make a good profit. What blew the business model out of the water was the cost of liability insurance. If you don't have insurance and just one person sues you because they had an accident and claimed your product was at fault, you're toast, even if you prove them wrong (due to the high cost of litigation). So we shelved the idea.

Anyway what we discovered in the development process was that altering the suspension and possibly the steering geometry is not to be taken lightly. There are many factors involved and even the high powered SolidWorks CAD program we used could not discover them all. What was really needed was extensive real world testing but we decided that there was no way we were ever going to do this testing by selling a prototype as a finished product, that would be unconscionable. We simply did not have the testing and proving facilities that BRP has. I am not saying Pittbull did not adequately test theirs, I'm sure they did, they certainly had more means to do this then I did. I'm only saying that thorough testing is absolutely required before selling a product that so obviously affects the safety of the vehicle in so many ways. Even with extensive testing problems still occur as can be seen by the DPS issues BRP has had not to mention others. So some risk is always involved.

SolidWorks modeling did show that placing the shocks and springs at a higher angle would indeed allow them to perform more effectively, if only marginally. The front suspension moves mostly up and down yet the shock is mounted at a relatively low angle to permit it to fit in the limited space available while allowing for adequate travel. This is a common design compromise on such vehicles. If you notice in vehicles where there is adequate space, shocks are mounted vertically, in line with suspension travel. So the more upright you can place the shocks the more efficiently it can perform its function. The few degrees of improvement the relocators allow does not make for a huge improvement, but some improvement is better than none so I would consider it worthwhile. Just don't expect a night and day difference. Such a geometry change may also make the steering more responsive, and indeed that is what is being reported by new users of the relocators. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is entirely up to the rider. Some people like more responsive steering while others may find it unsettling. This is a dichotomy that has plagued sports car manufacturers for years. A little understeer is generally considered safer for unskilled drivers but skilled drivers may prefer a bit of oversteer. So everyone will have to make up their own mind based up their skills and preferences.

Bottom Line: The shock relocators may improve the efficiency of your shocks and springs and provide some marginal better rough road handling and some improved resistance to sway. A side effect may be more responsive steering.