Not sure what caused this....

[OldCowboy]

How can you add something constructive on this matter when you have no idea what took place?

An interesting question from someone who has never added something constructive to this forum.

[JCSMOKE]

My piece of junk caused me so much trouble today, I put on the sway bar and the shock relocators and adjusted the preload and went for a ride to get some ice cream. Turned out to be a 75 mile ride, thing stuck to the ground like on rails, I couldn't make the nanny squeel if I paid her! I was so into the ride and my attempts to figure out why I got this stupid machine that I didn't notice the cop until of course I thought (what are those cool lights on that car). 20 miles over! stupid machine! cop saw the trouble I was having and wrote me up for 10 over. I can't believe my bike betrayed me to the tune of $88.80! Stupid Machine.



Please notice that tongue was firmly in cheek throughout the post

[spydercowboy]

Even a small fire extinguisher could have put that fire out if if you could get to the source. But part of BRP's design is the problem here. A completely confined totally enclosed area where heat and gas fumes accumulate. Without being able to get inside quickly, you have no chance of putting any fire out. And if they had vent openings in the tupperware the gas fumes would have a place to escape as well as some heat. But here's a question I have then. Why doesn't a Honda trike have a similar problem? The only answer I have is they don't have the heat issue. At any rate I truly think it was the best thing that could happen for Spyderlovers in the long run. I'm sure they will get to the real cause and that should trickle down. One can only hope.

[Tango]

I don't understand why anyone would think BRP had anything to do with the plastic bag statement. Somebody saw a plastic bag. At best, it was the dealer who said that. At worst, it was just made up by the reporter. I doubt anyone from BRP corporate headquarters was anywhere near the scene to make a statement like this.

Fires happen. Lots of reasons. Could be a plastic bag. Could be operator error. Could be a major design flaw. Could be corporate espionage! Investigate Honda immediately! Call the president!

The local fire department might decide to investigate the cause and it might be available to the public. Until the cause is determined to be design related, BRP owes us nothing.

Seems the entitlement issues our country is suffering from are not limited to our youth.

hm... where's my fireproof suit...

When I asked the BRP Rep at the demo tent what had happened. His reply was, and I quote, "a plastic bag got sucked up underneath. The fire was under a fuel line that melted". The fire was at the point of the demo return, when they come back from the ride. To the left of the tent. They covered the bike with a moving blanket to keep it from being scene. They pushed it onto a utility trailer and drove away. Tom

[John in PA]

No serious answer to my serious question below due to pissing contest above derailing thread. There were incidents a couple years ago that were thought to be related to fuel accumulation in the charcoal canister. Is that still thought to be a concern, (whether it was the cause in this individual case or not)??

I've been off the forum for quite a while. Previous discussions on this topic centered on over-fueling and getting raw fuel into the evap canister as the primary inciting cause. With those discussions in mind, as well as a tendency to not let bureaucracy push me into stupid choices, I removed all my evap crap and re-routed tank breather and overflow lines out the back as far away from the "hot bits" as possible. I really can't give a rip about a few drops of fuel on the ground or a whiff of gasoline in the atmosphere (sorry, Al Gore!) compared to my physical and economic (as in loss of the vehicle) safety!

So has the thinking on this issue changed dramatically while I've been absent?? At least one inquiring mind wants to know...

[daveinva]

As I've said many times before, there's NO WAY I am *ever* carrying a fire extinguisher on my Spyder.

If the bike catches fire, I'm letting it burn, and collecting the insurance money. No way in heck am I going to bother repairing something that caught on fire.

[Freddy]

I have to wonder if the evaporative cannister is a Canadian requirement?? I know Harley-Davidson bikes don't have them, just a dump tube in case the tank gets too full. Do other bikes sold in the US have them?

From my limited knowledge, Kawasaki and Triumph have a simple overflow tube to the ground while BMW's have an evap can arrangement.

[wyliec]

No serious answer to my serious question below due to pissing contest above derailing thread. There were incidents a couple years ago that were thought to be related to fuel accumulation in the charcoal canister. Is that still thought to be a concern, (whether it was the cause in this individual case or not)??

Don't know how long you've been off. But, BRP came up with a new gas cap. For some that eliminated the gas smell; but, not for others. I also received a safety bulletin like most or many did regarding the dealer install of a longer vent hose from the canister, which allowed it to be routed differently. That letter was dated Dec. 21 2012

Some people just want to be noticed so they start their whizzing and whining. This is in regards to the pissing contest you mentioned.

[Dudley]

Sure it's not the best advertisement for the Spyder. However, as it's not the first to catch fire (I know of at least one other video and also of one Girls on Spyders member whose machine caught fire), maybe it will wake BRP up to the fact that there REALLY IS A PERSISTENT PROBLEM WITH THE VENTING SYSTEM ON SOME OF THESE MACHINES. Just look at all the threads regarding "gas smell" .... IMHO, the previous fires and this one probably have the same root cause (and it's something that BRP, unfortunately, has not paid proper attention to).

Maybe, since this was one of their own machines ... it will wake them up and result in a true solution that improves safety for all of us.

So, while it's not great advertising ... I think it couldn't of happened in a better spot; but only if BRP thoroughly investigates and comes up with something that stops these fires from happening for good. As above ..."vehicles shouldn't catch fire"!

Best Regards .... Ann

I agree...now BRP has a Spyder that was untouched by any dealer and can take it home to dissect it and hopefully find the cause.

[AbNormy]

Asbestos armor! Quick!

From Deep in the Hart of Texas!

[chris56]

I was at a Demo site one time and they were refueling the Spyders with hand held cans. It would be very interesting to know what happened before the fire.
The plastic bag seems pretty far out to me as well.
Oldmanzues

seems that the guy who refilled the Spyder has to look for a new Job now ...did he smoke a cigarette ???

[WackyDan]

Where the heck do you get entitlement issue from what I wrote? What a stretch.

It was a demo event. There are indeed BRP contractors and employees there or at least there has been at every one I've been to.

I don't understand why anyone would think BRP had anything to do with the plastic bag statement. Somebody saw a plastic bag. At best, it was the dealer who said that. At worst, it was just made up by the reporter. I doubt anyone from BRP corporate headquarters was anywhere near the scene to make a statement like this.

Fires happen. Lots of reasons. Could be a plastic bag. Could be operator error. Could be a major design flaw. Could be corporate espionage! Investigate Honda immediately! Call the president!

The local fire department might decide to investigate the cause and it might be available to the public. Until the cause is determined to be design related, BRP owes us nothing.

Seems the entitlement issues our country is suffering from are not limited to our youth.

hm... where's my fireproof suit...

[JaymeG33]

It was brought to my attention today that the video was posted on here. So I finally got a chance to read thru this thread. Let me first say that I was the one taking the video, and flipping between video and picture taking. I can tell you what I saw and what I didn't see.

So here ya go:

First of all, I did not see a bag. I'm not saying that there wasn't one there, there was a slight breeze and one could have blown thru that parking lot.
It was 90+ degrees. This happened at the end of the demo day, approx 430-440pm. The machines got very little time turned off between demo rides.
The 'potential customers' were taking their preride testing in the coned off area. They didn't even make it out for the street ride yet.
All of the machines at the demo ride were semi-auto's.
The Spyders were not taken to gas stations to be refueled. When the I spoke with the VERY RUDE BRP Rep earlier in the day before this happened, he told me that they keep the back of the rig open for refueling the Spyders.
As this machine burned, the parking brake released and drifted back towards the crowd. They put a road cone behind the rear wheel to stop it from rolling. You can see the cone in the video.
The BRP reps did try to put out the fire with multiple fire extinguishers. They tried to unlatch the seat. As they would try to pull the side of the seat back, you could see that they entire section under the tupperware was cherry red.
Finally they just walked away and let it burn. Total burn time was approx 10 minutes. The fastest I've ever seen $30,000 go up in flames.

As soon as the fire was put out by the fire department, the BRP representatives scattered like cockroaches and were no where to be found. By this time the media was there and I'm sure that they were avoiding being interviewed.

I posted this video because there is always something to be learned from such tragedys. I was not the ONLY one taking pics and video. Mine just happened to get posted first I suppose, approx 14 hours AFTER the incident. It's not like I hit some automatic upload button instantly.

I love my Spyder and wouldn't trade it for anything. Accidents happen and that's the bottom line. This expericnce was exciting and terrifying all at the same time. It really snaps you into reality witnessing something like this. I'm glad it wasn't someones personal machine.

Now, with that all being said....
The very next day, our Club participated in the parade for Thunder in the Valley. After the parade was over, we rode over to the BRP Rig to park. It was another 90+ degree day and one of our members 2011 RT temp light came on and went into Limp Mode. I instructed her to turn it off immediately and just park it to cool. For god sakes we didn't need ANOTHER fire. The BRP Rep came over and told her that she needed to move her Spyder because she was parked behind his KIA REALLY? I told him that it wasn't moving. PERIOD. He told me that we (meaning Spyder owners) weren't welcome there anyways. Entirely OUT OF LINE in my opinion. Last I checked, if it wasn't for all of us buying their products HE wouldn't have a job. SO...ultimately took MY SPYDER up the street to the SUZUKI demo rig and I was welcomed to park it there so the woman with the over heated RT could let her machine cool down without further potential problems. I'd LOVE to talk to BRP about this incident. I'm sure they can find my phone # in their database in Canada. I'm available anytime.....

[harrypottar]

Plastic bags don't burn spyders, people do.....

if the alleged plastic bag had been put in the trash, a spyder could have been saved.

I think plastic bags are unfairly represented by the media today, labeling all plastic bags by this one wayward street scamp is also unfair. Wholefoods only deals with paper bags due to the bad press recived on plastic bags. Don't forget The alleged plastic bag perished in the same incedent.

In the right hands plastic bags can be safe and some times fun to use, but you have to be responsible and dispose of plastic bags in a safe manor. Leaving them scattered around is just asking for trouble.


Harry,

cabin feaver due to hairline fractured femur... Can you tell

[Jeriatric]

JameyG33,

personally, I thank you for posting the video and for this follow up post. I hope BRP does reach out to you. Also sorry to hear how you and your friends were treated by those representing BRP.

Please keep us updated.

[AbNormy]

@ Harry Pottar, is your bag registered? CBP? Concealed bag permit? Seriously thanks to the person who posted this video and I share your concern. I've made it a point since I bought my RT April 23 2012 to always park a box fan in front of mine when pulling into my garage especially after reading about boiling fuel and leaking vent lines and saturated canisters and feeling the heat and smelling the fumes. I'm getting mine to my dealer for some PM on Tuesday and plan to ask them yet again what else can be done. I had them wrap the headers with lava tape and hope to head off any potential sources of unwanted fires.


Sent from my home in Central Texas!

[daveinva]

I'm beginning to really wonder whether in hand-filling the Spyders by the end of a long, hot, busy day, a rep just spilled gas down onto the bike, enough to catch the tubing on fire.

That'd be my theory, anyway.

[Ga Blue Knight]

When I and my wife did Demo rides at Maggie Valley I got into a conversation with the folks putting on the Demo. I asked them how was it working for BRP. They said that they were contractors hired by BRP to put on the demos and did not work directly for BRP. Now at this I was surprised as they were all wearing Can Am/BRP clothing and had the big Can Am 18 Wheeler. The guy leading my demo said that was his full time job driving around the country. He is also the one as I described in an earlier thread on another topic who was advising newbies to shift at 3,000 RPMs. You have to wonder if BRP is even going to get any information from the Contractor putting in the demos?

[wyliec]

I'm beginning to really wonder whether in hand-filling the Spyders by the end of a long, hot, busy day, a rep just spilled gas down onto the bike, enough to catch the tubing on fire.

That'd be my theory, anyway.

You need an open flame or spark for ignition. So, unless the engine was running, the chances of igniting the gas are pretty slim.

If you want to read a boring article:

http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

Actually, I learned the open flame or spark required from Firefly.

[SteveMac]

Thanks for posting JaymeG33. Good info to have.

[daveinva]

You need an open flame or spark for ignition. So, unless the engine was running, the chances of igniting the gas are pretty slim.

If you want to read a boring article:

http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

Actually, I learned the open flame or spark required from Firefly.

Thanks. Yeah, I knew that, but I'm thinking that it's never a good thing to have gasoline *outside* of the tank, and that seems to me to be a possible contributor.

Reason why I'm thinking that is simply because the Spyders *don't* catch fire as often as people think they do. It's happened a handful of times, with the early models. True, they shouldn't catch fire *at all*-- no disputing that!-- but I don't recall reading instances of *any* late model Spyders catching fire in recent years, let alone a 2013 like this.

That's why this is either a very worrisome problem, or just one of those fluke, freak accidents that likely resulted from a long chain of bad decisions and unlucky breaks. I generally favor the latter barring new evidence, just how I roll.

[Lamonster]

Did a little digging to see if I could get more info about what happened here and maybe lay to rest some of the speculation.

The issue of the "plastic bag". From what I understand it was the folks who were riding the Spyder that said they saw a plastic bag get sucked up into the engine compartment. I have no idea how or where this happened so I won't bother making a guess, the folks investigating the fire will know for sure if that led to the cause of the fire.

Both BRP and the local fire department are investigating what happened to the unit. Will we ever know what really happened? I'm not sure but if it is a design flaw and both the fire department and BRP comes to the same conclusion that it was you can be sure there will be something published. I doubt that this is a design flaw but I would be guessing just like you all. We do know that there have been several fires related to the Spyder and my guess is the gas cap recall had something to do with that. If you add up the miles collectively that have been put on Spyders I would say that this is not the norm and for this to happen you need two things, fuel or fuel vapors and a source of ignition. Open flames, sparks, static electricity, and hot surfaces are all possible ignition sources.

The unit was not moved until the fire and police departments finished the on-scene investigation. Of course they covered it up and moved it once that was done. It is at a local dealer where the investigation will continue.

The thing I find amazing and I'm thankful for is as far as I know nobody has ever been hurt from a Spyder fire. As you can see from the video it doesn't just burst into flames when this does happen. The rider seems to have plenty of time to get to a safe place before the fire is put out. I've had third degree burns twice now and I can tell you it's no fun and I'm thankful that this wasn't as bad as it could have been.

I've posted this video here so that you know that there is no coverup and I'm a concerned Spyder rider just like you first. Let's see how this shakes out before we start making outrageous claims before we know all the facts. You can bet BRP does not want any of their product bursting into flames and they will be looking hard into finding the cause and making corrections if it is something they can change to prevent this from happening again.

[bullant12]

I have a fire extinguisher not only on my s, but in both my cars, and the garage, attic and kitchen.

As far as in the vehicles, it is not much for when MY ride catches fire, but when someone ELSE's ride does.

They are not intended to extinguish huge fires, but if you catch the smoke and heat, the sooner the fire is avoided.

I keep them as insurance... not because I don't trust my vehicles, house or wife's cooking!

[bruiser]

I agree Erick.

[WackyDan]

I'm beginning to really wonder whether in hand-filling the Spyders by the end of a long, hot, busy day, a rep just spilled gas down onto the bike, enough to catch the tubing on fire.

That'd be my theory, anyway.

Flash point of gas is near 495 degrees. If the bike was shutoff for near any amount of time, the danger would be gone and with it not running you eliminate most electrical arcing/sparks that could have been present.

So yeah... real mystery here.