Hand brake question...

[Sopher]

Lamonster (& others too), I was inspecting the details of my spyder's foot brake. Instead of welding on a bracket to extend the leverage of a clutch cable pull, why not this possible design:
Using the vertical half-round plate of the foot brake, a bottom mounted clutch cable could easily have enough leverage to pull the brake down with a handle.

The only downside I can envision is exposure to ground/clearance risks. An additional bracket could help guard this.
Please add your thoughts with great detail. I eat it up!

[trikester]

Lamonster (& others too), I was inspecting the details of my spyder's foot brake. Instead of welding on a bracket to extend the leverage of a clutch cable pull, why not this possible design:
Using the vertical half-round plate of the foot brake, a bottom mounted clutch cable could easily have enough leverage to pull the brake down with a handle.

The only downside I can envision is exposure to ground/clearance risks. An additional bracket could help guard this.
Please add your thoughts with great detail. I eat it up!

I was also thinking along the same lines. What say you, anyone???

Frank

[Sopher]

In fact I was thinking more about this today.
I think a bottom mounted bracket can be done in one of two ways (at least!):
Option 1, New bracket to secure the cable assembly and allow proper leverage when actuated. This bracket would be a simple downforce pull of the pedal.
Option 2, Modified version with a pulley; An upward pull of the cable going through a small pulley the apply a downward pull of the pedal. This will ensure a foot press of the pedal will yield slack on the pulley but still allow the hand brake to mode the pedal. Note: The pulley would have "U" shaped guide to prevent the cable from slipping of jumping the pulley.

Or... find a local show to do isolated hydraulic claiper brakes instead. (costly)

[Lamonster]

There are more than one way to skin a cat as they say. I'm sure there are better ways to do other than how I did it.

[trikester]

In fact I was thinking more about this today.
I think a bottom mounted bracket can be done in one of two ways (at least!):
Option 1, New bracket to secure the cable assembly and allow proper leverage when actuated. This bracket would be a simple downforce pull of the pedal.
Option 2, Modified version with a pulley; An upward pull of the cable going through a small pulley the apply a downward pull of the pedal. This will ensure a foot press of the pedal will yield slack on the pulley but still allow the hand brake to mode the pedal. Note: The pulley would have "U" shaped guide to prevent the cable from slipping of jumping the pulley.

Or... find a local show to do isolated hydraulic claiper brakes instead. (costly)

Hmmm........lets see..........a "master" cylinder brake handle and a "slave" cylinder to pull down the foot brake lever. Sorry, just dreaming.

Frank

[LittleJohn]

Hmmm........lets see..........a "master" cylinder brake handle and a "slave" cylinder to pull down the foot brake lever. Sorry, just dreaming.

Frank

Actually, wouldnt the slave "push" the pedal down? This sounds like a good possibility. My only concern would be when applying the brake with your foot, the pulling of the slave cylinder without actuating the master could allow air into the system.
Hmmmmm ya got my thinker workin now!!!!

[trikester]

Actually, wouldnt the slave "push" the pedal down? This sounds like a good possibility. My only concern would be when applying the brake with your foot, the pulling of the slave cylinder without actuating the master could allow air into the system.
Hmmmmm ya got my thinker workin now!!!!

I left it to be assumed, in the reading of my post, that there would be "one way" slip attachment that would allow the foot pedal to be manually actuated without forcing the slave cylinder. I would do this even with a cable actuated system, so that the brake handle wouldn't go slack when using the foot pedal. I built a system like this once and I didn't like having the brake handle flop back against my hand when I used my foot, so I changed it to use a small spring and one way slip to keep the handle from becoming loose when I would brake with my foot. Worked like a charm.

As an example: If the slave cylinder piston shaft were pushing the foot lever down it could just be pushing against some place on the lever without any solid attachment. Then the foot could push the lever down away from the piston shaft, leaving it in the retracted position. I think a hydraulic solution offers more possibilities than a cable solution but would probably be harder to find the right hardware components (& more engineering involved). The right size slave cylinder to match an available hydraulic motorcycle or ATV brake lever would have to be found. There is a company that sells a wide variety of hydraulic hardware but I can't think of the name offhand and their catalog is at my shop and I'm home.

Frank

[LittleJohn]

I left it to be assumed, in the reading of my post, that there would be "one way" slip attachment that would allow the foot pedal to be manually actuated without forcing the slave cylinder. I would do this even with a cable actuated system, so that the brake handle wouldn't go slack when using the foot pedal. I built a system like this once and I didn't like having the brake handle flop back against my hand when I used my foot, so I changed it to use a small spring and one way slip to keep the handle from becoming loose when I would brake with my foot. Worked like a charm.

As an example: If the slave cylinder piston shaft were pushing the foot lever down it could just be pushing against some place on the lever without any solid attachment. Then the foot could push the lever down away from the piston shaft, leaving it in the retracted position. I think a hydraulic solution offers more possibilities than a cable solution but would probably be harder to find the right hardware components (& more engineering involved). The right size slave cylinder to match an available hydraulic motorcycle or ATV brake lever would have to be found. There is a company that sells a wide variety of hydraulic hardware but I can't think of the name offhand and their catalog is at my shop and I'm home.

Frank

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh "light bulb"
Ive got it all worked out in my head now!!! I just need a Spyder to see how itll fit in the real world!!!! LOL

[Lamonster]

: ;D

[Sopher]

Lamonster, Can you add some captions describing your pictures. Also any info on parts and sources.

[LittleJohn]

: ;D

I cant tell for sure, but is that mounted where you have your spring? It looks like the clevis is attached on the same bolt 9longer of course0 as the pedal attach point.
I think I like. Whos is it if you dont mind me askin, and if you have any more details, Id love to know ;D ;D ;D

[Sopher]

I can't tell, but is that a master cylinder brake controlling a mechanical clevis on the foot pedal?
Please elaborate? How is the cable slack absorbed when you press the pedal with your foot?

[LittleJohn]

I can't tell, but is that a master cylinder brake controlling a mechanical clevis on the foot pedal?
Please elaborate? How is the cable slack absorbed when you press the pedal with your foot?

It looks to me like a hydrailc system where the slave cyl is attached to and pushing the same attach point as the mechanical brake pedal. I would LOVE to hear if this is working out good or if there are issues such as "pulling" the slave cyl when applying the brake pedal and possibly inducing air into the hand system.

This may not be an issue if you only use the foot as a backup in case tyere is a sys failure on the hand system, so might work PERFECT for me! I sure hope I can get some part numbers or at least applications of the parts used. !!!!!

[trikester]

Lamont, I'm confused (what else is new?). Did you scrap your cable actuated system and change over to a hydraulic actuated system?

BTW - I may have mentioned this earlier but I don't think I did. If I go with hydraulic I will use an ATV master because it is designed to drive two front calipers, so it has more capacity and could drive a bigger slave cylinder. Of course a master for a motorcycle that had two front disks would be like that also.

Frank

[Way2Fast]

Someone on this forum had rigged an independent master cylinder on the right handle bar that activated additional calipers on the front wheels. I forget who it was. He was selling the system for a very reasonable price. Does anyone remember who this was? Was it tried by any forum members?

[bjt]

Here is the post that Way2Fast is referring to. An extra set of front calipers that are controlled only by the hand brake.

[LittleJohn]

: ;D

Lamont,
I know this isnt your bike ( assume at least as I dont think thats your PE #.) Do you have any info on it other than the pictures? I would LOVE to talk with the owner and see what he used and how its workin out.
Thanks again. Your pictures are worth a million words.

[Lamonster]

You can round up the parts yourself pretty easy on ebay.

You need a FRONT BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER something like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FRONT...m110255886920&

Then you need a Push Slave Cylinder like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...3756.m20.l1116
or like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...3756.m20.l1116

Make up your line and a clevis and you got it.

[LittleJohn]

You can round up the parts yourself pretty easy on ebay.

You need a FRONT BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER something like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FRONT...m110255886920&

Then you need a Push Slave Cylinder like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...3756.m20.l1116
or like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...3756.m20.l1116

Make up your line and a clevis and you got it.

Thanks Lamont. Just wondered wether you had the owners info so I could try to see how his was workin. and maybe learn from any mistakes he might have come across. The billet cyl you posted looks real close to the one in the pic. Looks like I've got a little hunting and fab work in my future...LOL

[Lamonster]

Thanks Lamont. Just wondered wether you had the owners info so I could try to see how his was workin. and maybe learn from any mistakes he might have come across. The billet cyl you posted looks real close to the one in the pic. Looks like I've got a little hunting and fab work in my future...LOL

From what the owner said it's working fine as is.

[Sopher]

Great info Lamonster!
I have a silly question... Where can I learn how/what to hook up the master cylender and slave?
I may just fabricate the mechanical conenction to the break and hire a local shop to install it.
But I do want to learn about it. any info ?

[Lamonster]

You just need a brakeline.

Great info Lamonster!
I have a silly question... Where can I learn how/what to hook up the master cylender and slave?
I may just fabricate the mechanical conenction to the break and hire a local shop to install it.
But I do want to learn about it. any info ?

[Sopher]

You just need a brakeline.

I can't be that simple eh? Master Cylynder Hand brake with a brake line connected to the slave that pulls the brake pedal? Brake line obviously filled with brake fluid and bled to remove any air. No other parts or conenctions? No pump no nothing else?

[Lamonster]

I can't be that simple eh? Master Cylynder Hand brake with a brake line connected to the slave that pulls the brake pedal? Brake line obviously filled with brake fluid and bled to remove any air. No other parts or conenctions? No pump no nothing else?

It pushes the brake pedal, and yes it is that simple. :bigthumbsup:

[trikester]

For my trike conversions I needed a custom front brake line. Fortunately, around the corner from my shop is a company named "Mesa Hose" (Mesa because they are in Costa Mesa, CA). They were able to make up the exact metal clad flexible hose (very low expansion type) I needed in about 15 minutes and it was not expensive. They crimped on the ends the "banjo" fittings I required. In my case (and I think most cases) they were 10mm banjo fittings. No problems with these brake hoses.

There are probably custom hose shops in many medium size towns.

Frank