Advantages/Disadvantages of Auto or manual Transmissions?

[Chupaca]

Are you totally confused yet..?? Seems all are happy with what they have. In the end you will have to decide. Good points have been made but in the end I want to control when to shift when I can coast when to slip the clutch. In other words I want yo be in control and if something fails I will know who to blame...just me..

[NancysToy]

First, let me point out that it is not a difference between an manual transmission and an automatic transmission. It is manual shifting and a manual clutch...or a combination of electronic shifting, a throttle blipper, and an additional centrifugal clutch mechanism to disengage at idle speeds. Same transmission on both models. You are still in control, although the SE will downshift automatically if you do not do it manually. There are more parts and complexity with the semi-auto, but the reliability has been good for either. There are a few additional maintenance parts and a bit more oil in the semi, but those extra costs are quite small. Unlike an automatic transmission, there is no loss of power, mileage, or performance with the SE if the rpm level is kept in the proper range, in fact performance can be somewhat enhanced with the quicker shifts.

The answer is to ride both, keep an open mind, and see what suits you best. Remember to shift at 4,000-4,500 rpm or higher, and hold the throttle steady instead of backing it off as with a manual. It will likely surprise you and please you. A great many long time manual clutch users have been won over by the SE, including our famous Lamonster. Try it, you may like it. The only reason I have not tried one is that with 25 other motorcycles, my poor aged brain just cannot manage to remember one more thing. After 50+ years it knows about clutches, and where the foot lever is, but not about paddle shifters on the handlebars. If your brain is younger or more agile, and you don't switch back and forth, you should learn in short order.

[vtspyder]

While riding last summer with other fellow GS/RS owners, the automatics seemed to run hotter on the temp gauge than the manuals. We couldn't contribute it to any other factors. There were 3 manuals & 2 autos in our group & both automatics ran much hotter, at least 2 bars higher on the gauge.

That's interesting. I never could figure out why my wife's se5 would run hotter than my sm5. Even when my machine was bone stock (hers is as well) her se5 would always be 1-2 bars hotter on the gauge.

I think it's a matter of personal preference. If you want to ride and leave your brain at home, get the se5. Really nice in traffic as well. No sacrifice in sportiness or responsiveness from what I can tell.

[mjw930]

I am considering buying an RS-S with the Auto/Paddle shifting system and Reverse but as all my experience to date has been with traditional manual shifting clutch systems I am a little nervous about going to this Auto transmission.

Are there any known issues or problems that pop up with one more often than the other? Anything to watch out for if I test drive one with an Auto?

FYI, both Spyders come with reverse, they just engage differently. And as others have pointed out, this is not an automatic transmission, it's an auto/manual with the difference being the electro mechanical control of the clutch and shifter.

If you are a long time rider then you should have no issue with the manual and since you are talking about an RS you don't have the difference between floorboards and pegs like the ST and RT.

Ride them both and see which you prefer. My wife preferred the SE5, it let her focus on the ride and not the shifting since she had limited experience on 2 wheels. I thought I would prefer the SM5 but honestly, I would buy the SE5 if I were to get one for myself. Just like I'm leaning towards a PDK on my next Porsche and I've been a manual transmission bigot for 40 years.

These aren't your fathers automatics

[daveinva]

First, let me point out that it is not a difference between an manual transmission and an automatic transmission. It is manual shifting and a manual clutch...or a combination of electronic shifting, a throttle blipper, and an additional centrifugal clutch mechanism to disengage at idle speeds. Same transmission on both models. You are still in control, although the SE will downshift automatically if you do not do it manually. There are more parts and complexity with the semi-auto, but the reliability has been good for either. There are a few additional maintenance parts and a bit more oil in the semi, but those extra costs are quite small. Unlike an automatic transmission, there is no loss of power, mileage, or performance with the SE if the rpm level is kept in the proper range, in fact performance can be somewhat enhanced with the quicker shifts.

The answer is to ride both, keep an open mind, and see what suits you best. Remember to shift at 4,000-4,500 rpm or higher, and hold the throttle steady instead of backing it off as with a manual. It will likely surprise you and please you. A great many long time manual clutch users have been won over by the SE, including our famous Lamonster. Try it, you may like it. The only reason I have not tried one is that with 25 other motorcycles, my poor aged brain just cannot manage to remember one more thing. After 50+ years it knows about clutches, and where the foot lever is, but not about paddle shifters on the handlebars. If your brain is younger or more agile, and you don't switch back and forth, you should learn in short order.

As always, the smartest man in the room, ladies and gentlemen!

[billybovine]

It will drop more than that in some gears, so 4,500 is safer. Although we can nit-pic the stall point and shift points, for most owners it is safest just to round off the numbers to the nearest 500.

First I was right about keeping it above 3400 rpm, but I was wrong about the rpm drop on an up shift. Shame on me for not doing the math. Thanks for catching that Scotty.

gear ratio.jpg

[SpyderFun]

It will drop more than that in some gears, so 4,500 is safer. Although we can nit-pic the stall point and shift points, for most owners it is safest just to round off the numbers to the nearest 500.

One thing that was not mentioned about the RPM level is that, per the RTS Maintenance Manual, the charging system requires the RPM to be at or above 4k to prevent draining the battery. I believe this holds true regardless of model or transmission. So as long as your RPMs are at or above 4k - NO WORRIES!



-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

[Jeriatric]

One thing that was not mentioned about the RPM level is that, per the RTS Maintenance Manual, the charging system requires the RPM to be at or above 4k to prevent draining the battery. I believe this holds true regardless of model or transmission. So as long as your RPMs are at or above 4k - NO WORRIES!



-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

Have always been a 4K advocate. KISS.....ya know

[NancysToy]

One thing that was not mentioned about the RPM level is that, per the RTS Maintenance Manual, the charging system requires the RPM to be at or above 4k to prevent draining the battery. I believe this holds true regardless of model or transmission. So as long as your RPMs are at or above 4k - NO WORRIES!



-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

Your shop manual must be a lot different than mine. Everything I have says only that the magneto output at 4,000 rpm is about half the rated wattage. That is sufficient to charge the battery, unless you have a lot of accessories. The reason they use a magneto (permanent magnet alternator) is that it charges at a lower rpm and is heat resistant.

[MuGGzy]

Thanks to all the responses, I am really glad this is such an active forum!

I have decided to go with the RS-S SE5, I pick it up tonight and I am pretty jazzed about the impending adventures. It's been a LONG time since I could hit the road on a bike and one of these seem like a great compromise (if you could even consider it such) for someone like myself that has a loving wife that will not get on a 2 wheel bike and strongly discourages me from riding one in general out of concern for my safety.

[ARtraveler]

Thanks to all the responses, I am really glad this is such an active forum!

I have decided to go with the RS-S SE5, I pick it up tonight and I am pretty jazzed about the impending adventures. It's been a LONG time since I could hit the road on a bike and one of these seem like a great compromise (if you could even consider it such) for someone like myself that has a loving wife that will not get on a 2 wheel bike and strongly discourages me from riding one in general out of concern for my safety.

Post us some pictures of the new .

[spydaman60]

Thanks to all the responses, I am really glad this is such an active forum!

I have decided to go with the RS-S SE5, I pick it up tonight and I am pretty jazzed about the impending adventures. It's been a LONG time since I could hit the road on a bike and one of these seem like a great compromise (if you could even consider it such) for someone like myself that has a loving wife that will not get on a 2 wheel bike and strongly discourages me from riding one in general out of concern for my safety.

. my wife would have never gotten on a two wheeler with me. she knows that I have a bad knee and once in a while it buckles out from under me. she rode with me last year every chance she got and logged over 4000 miles on the big orange machine. good luck with your wife and hope she tries it and likes it as much as mine!

[Tazzel]

The engine STOP switch. BRP even suggests it be used to stop the engine before turning the key off. It's a good habit to get into, and may, save your bacon.

my dealer told me not to use the Kill switch, just the key to turn on and off. In fact I have owned serveral bikes and all advice to not use the Kill switch because they are prone to frying.

[Jeriatric]

my dealer told me not to use the Kill switch, just the key to turn on and off. In fact I have owned serveral bikes and all advice to not use the Kill switch because they are prone to frying.

Nothing personal towards you. OK!

But your dealer is nuts. It clearly states it be used in the owners manual and why. Have yet to hear of one ever frying. It's just a toggle switch, and it would be covered under warranty anyway.

If you choose not to use it. That's your choice.

Personally I think it's very wise to use it, because in the case of an "emergency' shut down would be as simple as a reflex....instead of the fog of panic.

[ABQAndy]

I love the SE5, never have to think about whether I am in 1st gear at a stop light, just hit the throttle and go.

[MidLifeCrisis]

I love the SE5, never have to think about whether I am in 1st gear at a stop light, just hit the throttle and go.

That's definitely one of the advantages. The other is hill starts with a fully loaded machine.

[SpyderFun]

Your shop manual must be a lot different than mine. Everything I have says only that the magneto output at 4,000 rpm is about half the rated wattage. That is sufficient to charge the battery, unless you have a lot of accessories. The reason they use a magneto (permanent magnet alternator) is that it charges at a lower rpm and is heat resistant.

Hey Scotty, with respect, here is my reference:

2010 - 2011
Spyder
Can-Am Roadster
Shop Manual
Spyder RT
(pn: 219 100 536)


Section 05: ELECTRICAL
SubSection 04: CHARGING SYSTEM

INSPECTION
Charging System Output
DC Voltage Output Test
Found on page 460

Step 5: Check Static Voltage. It should be minimum 12.6Vdc
NOTE: TABLE on page 464 "Battery" > "Battery No Load Voltage Test (No Load Applied)" also states a fully charged battery is 12.6 Vdc.
Step 6: Start Engine
Step 7: Load electrical system by turning ON
-Headlights on hi-beam
-Front heated grips to high
Step 8: Read Voltage
TABLE STATES:
-Test Engine Speed 4000 RPM
-Voltage 13.0 - 14 Vdc
NOTE: The "DC Current Output Test", page 460-461, states that the load should be a minimum of 10 A at this time see TABLE on page 461


So, if you are running at 4k rpms you would have a minimum of 0.4Vdc to 1.4 Vdc charge to the battery thus ensuring your battery remains fully charged while riding (no-worries).
This should be a minimum rpm given PMG type chargers are more efficient at a higher rpm thereby generating a stronger magnetic field. This is why BRP has you run the rpm @ at least 4k for test purposes because (IMHO) PMGs suck at providing a strong magnetic field for producing power at lower rpms.

What does your manual say?

[SpyderFun]

...Personally I think it's very wise to use it, because in the case of an "emergency' shut down would be as simple as a reflex....instead of the fog of panic.

Once adrenaline kicks in during an emergency...its all about training and reflexes after that!

[NancysToy]

Hey Scotty, with respect, here is my reference:

So, if you are running at 4k rpms you would have a minimum of 0.4Vdc to 1.4 Vdc charge to the battery thus ensuring your battery remains fully charged while riding (no-worries).
This should be a minimum rpm given PMG type chargers are more efficient at a higher rpm thereby generating a stronger magnetic field. This is why BRP has you run the rpm @ at least 4k for test purposes because (IMHO) PMGs suck at providing a strong magnetic field for producing power at lower rpms.

What does your manual say?

All it does here is state the voltage provided through the regulator at 4,000 rpm...for test purposes. The voltage itsef does not indicate the state of battery charging, as long as it is more than the battery voltage at that time. The 4K is just a reference point...not a minimum rpm. The Spyder will be putting out sufficient voltage to charge the battery even at idle, as long as the charging warning light is not lit. It will not charge fast at idle, though. To get a decent amount of charging wattage (voltage x amperage) you need to get the rpms up...but not necessarily above 4K, depending on the state of charge of the battery and the battery load.

[SpyderFun]

All it does here is state the voltage provided through the regulator at 4,000 rpm...for test purposes. The voltage itsef does not indicate the state of battery charging, as long as it is more than the battery voltage at that time. The 4K is just a reference point...not a minimum rpm. The Spyder will be putting out sufficient voltage to charge the battery even at idle, as long as the charging warning light is not lit. It will not charge fast at idle, though. To get a decent amount of charging wattage (voltage x amperage) you need to get the rpms up...but not necessarily above 4K, depending on the state of charge of the battery and the battery load.

What "reference" are you referring to?

I believe BRP chose the 4k rpm to "test" the charging system because anything less would not produce a voltage above the static 12.6 the battery produces thus you would only measure battery voltage and not charge voltage. And with everything turned ON, the battery is in a constant discharge state at idle rpm.

Thoughts?


-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

[arntufun]

I'm a little late to the party but rest assured the SM by far is much better than the SE and I 'll tell you why .........


With the SM you do not need a parking brake, you just leave it in gear. What happens when you forget to constantly adjust your SE parking brake and your beloved SE Spyder rolls down the hill and crashes into something because it remains in neutral while stopped ????? Thats right, your insurance will total it, insurance rates will rise, you might get sued and you will end up getting a SM anyway.

For one reason or another this was forgotten and ignored "conveniently" by fellow SE owners.

[ARtraveler]

with arntu about the SM and the parking brake. (Sorry arntu). The footbrake on the RS was and is a PIA to set, adjust, and keep operating as needed. The parking brake was always being overapplied and resulted in me having to adjust it regularly. No such problem with my SM5. I never used the parking brake and just left it in gear.

[SpyderFun]

The SE has a push button parking brake that if not engaged will sound an audible alarm with the key turned to OFF. Makes "forgetting to set it" somewhat impossible unless you are deaf. I have not had to adjust the parking brake on my 2010 RTS SE5 since purchase.


-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

[ARtraveler]

The parking brakes on the RT's are e-brakes. No foot actuated parking brake involved here. Not sure what they did beyond 2009 on the RS's though. My 2008 and 2009 had the foot actuated parking brakes, and the 2009 SE5 had the alarm as mentioned above.

[Bob Ledford]

First, I never piloted a manual shift Spyder. But I can tell you all about the SE-5 or at least my view point of one.

In a nutshell "I love it" like every thing mechanical there are +\_'s. The electronic shifter works well. It does not miss a shift on the up side and you don't have to wonder where your at in the shift pattern at a red light if you doze off for a second or two. You can still load the engine down but not to the point of stall out. You don't have to worry with lubricating the cable every time you turn around.

You have to put up with the auto down shifting engine reving up unless your shifting manually using the down shift function. If you are slightly spadix like I am you have to use both hands to get reverse to work. But I go forward more then I go backwards so who cares? I don't!

The biggest complaints I have is the semiautomatic clutch is to noisesy IMO and that bugs me some of the time. The high rev shifting points are so much smoother that it is not worth complaining about. You get used to t and enjoy the ride and keep that thumb an index finger moving like the traffic around you is.