Advantages/Disadvantages of Auto or manual Transmissions?

[MuGGzy]

I am considering buying an RS-S with the Auto/Paddle shifting system and Reverse but as all my experience to date has been with traditional manual shifting clutch systems I am a little nervous about going to this Auto transmission.

Are there any known issues or problems that pop up with one more often than the other? Anything to watch out for if I test drive one with an Auto?

[SpyderFun]

.....Anything to watch out for if I test drive one with an Auto?

Yes.....having too much fun! Keep the throttle on while shifting and you will see how easy and smooth it is....




-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

[Derek Paisley]

The only problem (if you can considerate it a problem) is that there is no clutch.
While moving, you are always in gear.

I have a 2012 RSS SE5 and love it!

[JaymeG33]

While riding last summer with other fellow GS/RS owners, the automatics seemed to run hotter on the temp gauge than the manuals. We couldn't contribute it to any other factors. There were 3 manuals & 2 autos in our group & both automatics ran much hotter, at least 2 bars higher on the gauge.

[Storm56]

While riding last summer with other fellow GS/RS owners, the automatics seemed to run hotter on the temp gauge than the manuals. We couldn't contribute it to any other factors. There were 3 manuals & 2 autos in our group & both automatics ran much hotter, at least 2 bars higher on the gauge.

Good to read that as I have some concerns over the heat issue, hope it is the case!

[ARtraveler]

About the only main difference I see is you will save $1,500 or so if you go with a SM5.

I have owned four ,s. The first came with the SM5 because that is all that was available. The next three were all SE5's.

Did not miss the manual shifting. I have only had one glitch with the SE5 in 50,000 plus miles. The shift linkage disconnected on my 2010 RT.

The way I drive, (conservative, no burn outs, average 5 mph over posted on highways), I did not notice any performance issues, or mileage issues.

The SE5 is actually fun once you get used to it. Don't miss the SM5 here at all.

[daveinva]

Learned on a SM5, bought an SE5. Love love love the SE5, it's part of what makes a Spyder a Spyder.

On two wheels, I like having the clutch because there are countless times where it comes in handy to slip the clutch in low-speed maneuvers. On three wheels-- where slow speed maneuvers don't risk dropping the Spyder-- there's no need for that kind of finesse.

And, as a practical matter, the SE5 shifts *faster* than the SM5, and it doesn't hurt performance, i.e. the advantages you'd see on an MT versus AT with a *car* for example aren't there on the Spyder. If the SM5 was faster or sipped less fuel then it'd be a debate, but as the wise man above just said, the only advantage is that it's cheaper on Day One.

For the record, I much prefer having a manual transmission on a car than an auto, am partial to having the manual clutch on a bike (although scooters can be fun), but on the Spyder, the SE5 is just a joy to use, and lets me focus completely on the ride (one less hand to cramp, one less foot to fumble with, etc., etc.).

[BikerDoc]

While riding last summer with other fellow GS/RS owners, the automatics seemed to run hotter on the temp gauge than the manuals. We couldn't contribute it to any other factors. There were 3 manuals & 2 autos in our group & both automatics ran much hotter, at least 2 bars higher on the gauge.

I have owned both the manual & the seemi auto and experienced no difference in run temps

[asp125]

Not having an SE I can't comment. But what is the failsafe mode if say your throttle gets stuck wide open? Not like there's a clutch to pull in, is there? How do you find neutral instantly before you run into something? If you hit the kill switch does the rear tire instantly lock up?

[Jeriatric]

Not having an SE I can't comment. But what is the failsafe mode if say your throttle gets stuck wide open? Not like there's a clutch to pull in, is there? How do you find neutral instantly before you run into something? If you hit the kill switch does the rear tire instantly lock up?

The engine STOP switch. BRP even suggests it be used to stop the engine before turning the key off. It's a good habit to get into, and may, save your bacon.

[vtspyder]

While riding last summer with other fellow GS/RS owners, the automatics seemed to run hotter on the temp gauge than the manuals. We couldn't contribute it to any other factors. There were 3 manuals & 2 autos in our group & both automatics ran much hotter, at least 2 bars higher on the gauge.

That's interesting. I never could figure out why my wife's se5 would run hotter than my sm5. Even when my machine was bone stock (hers is as well) her se5 would always be 1-2 bars hotter on the gauge.

I think it's a matter of personal preference. If you want to ride and leave your brain at home, get the se5. Really nice in traffic as well. No sacrifice in sportiness or responsiveness from what I can tell.

[spydaman60]

it's all a matter of personal preference! I wouldn't be without the sm5! just love the feeling of dropping it and popping it!

[Storm56]

I am new to Spyders and the forum. I rode both and felt much more comfortable with the manual, of course I have been riding motorcycles over 40 years and do not plan on getting rid of my regular rides just yet. Feel it will be much easier and more natural when switching back and forth between rides. Of course I prefer a manual shuttle over HST on my tractors too, beginning to sense a pattern here...

[MidLifeCrisis]

SEs cost more to maintain are more complicated and more reports of various failures. Not a high rate of failures anymore, but something to think about.

Slowing down in turns is different. SEs shift quick, so they grab real quick if your trying to simulate gently slowing around corners. That takes a bit of getting used to.

They don't cost as well, if the engine kills either. My kill switch went bad and everything went dead in the middle if a turn through a busy intersection. I pulled in the clutch and rolled through. I know the SEs clutches disengage in certain RPMs too, but I personally prefer having control in emergencies. Can't beet the relaxation of an SE though in traffic.

[Bob Denman]

The clutches in the SE 5 trannys don't fully lock up until you get them up to about 4000 rpm... If you loaf along with the clutches slipping; you'll burn them.
The SM 5 trannys don't have this setup, so it's not an issue with them...

But I sure do love my ESSIE!

[billybovine]

The clutches in the SE 5 trannys don't fully lock up until you get them up to about 4000 rpm... If you loaf along with the clutches slipping; you'll burn them.
The SM 5 trannys don't have this setup, so it's not an issue with them...

But I sure do love my ESSIE!

I hate to be nit picky Bob but the published stall speed on the SE5 centrifugal is 3200 +/-200 rpm. So you can be assured it is not slipping at 3400 rpm and above. But 4000 rpm is important because when you up shift at that rpm it will drop 600 to 3400 rpm and there is no margin left.

Clutch Speed.jpg

[NancysToy]

I hate to be nit picky Bob but the published stall speed on the SE5 centrifugal is 3200 +/-200 rpm. So you can be assured it is not slipping at 3400 rpm and above. But 4000 rpm is important because when you up shift at that rpm it will drop 600 to 3400 rpm and there is no margin left.

Clutch Speed.jpg

It will drop more than that in some gears, so 4,500 is safer. Although we can nit-pic the stall point and shift points, for most owners it is safest just to round off the numbers to the nearest 500.

[billybovine]

It will drop more than that in some gears, so 4,500 is safer. Although we can nit-pic the stall point and shift points, for most owners it is safest just to round off the numbers to the nearest 500.

First I was right about keeping it above 3400 rpm, but I was wrong about the rpm drop on an up shift. Shame on me for not doing the math. Thanks for catching that Scotty.

gear ratio.jpg

[daveinva]

SEs cost more to maintain

The only "extra" cost is ensuring my oil is topped off...

[DrewNJ]

We've come to find around here that the SM is simpler, and more forgiving to changes such as pipes, air filters and tuners. The SE is more complex, can be finicky with oil level and electronics, and doesn't always play nice with the same setups that work well on the SM machines.
The SE is easier to ride for sure and takes less thought. The SM is more old school.

Personally, I'm a fan of the SM as I grew up on 2 wheels shifting gears. It just feels right to me. My wife would be more comfortable on the SE. But it's really a personal choice. One really isn't significantly better or worse than the other.....

[MidLifeCrisis]

The only "extra" cost is ensuring my oil is topped off...

I was referring to the filter and additional labor charges at oil changes and any other adjustment or calibration requirements.

[Sarge707]

I Have both-09SE5 and 2012RT Manual.
I love having both _Keeps my brain busy- Like the downshifting around corners on the manual- Only thing I could do without on the Manual is the Initial start in 1st gear? Would not win a drag race with it.

SE5 is Also great and requires little thought so I can "Day Dream" More- Fast as L through the gears BUT have to change 2 filters.

If somneone GAVE me $1,500 dollars the day I bought the RT I would have got another Auto BUT that being said I,m happy I have the Opportunity to drive Auto one day and Manual the next day!!!!!!!!!

[daveinva]

I was referring to the filter and additional labor charges at oil changes and any other adjustment or calibration requirements.

Oh, that? How much does that cost when compared to draining and replacing the clutch fluid, both done on two year cycles?

We're nit-picking by anecdote here.

[Chupaca]

Are you totally confused yet..?? Seems all are happy with what they have. In the end you will have to decide. Good points have been made but in the end I want to control when to shift when I can coast when to slip the clutch. In other words I want yo be in control and if something fails I will know who to blame...just me..

[NancysToy]

First, let me point out that it is not a difference between an manual transmission and an automatic transmission. It is manual shifting and a manual clutch...or a combination of electronic shifting, a throttle blipper, and an additional centrifugal clutch mechanism to disengage at idle speeds. Same transmission on both models. You are still in control, although the SE will downshift automatically if you do not do it manually. There are more parts and complexity with the semi-auto, but the reliability has been good for either. There are a few additional maintenance parts and a bit more oil in the semi, but those extra costs are quite small. Unlike an automatic transmission, there is no loss of power, mileage, or performance with the SE if the rpm level is kept in the proper range, in fact performance can be somewhat enhanced with the quicker shifts.

The answer is to ride both, keep an open mind, and see what suits you best. Remember to shift at 4,000-4,500 rpm or higher, and hold the throttle steady instead of backing it off as with a manual. It will likely surprise you and please you. A great many long time manual clutch users have been won over by the SE, including our famous Lamonster. Try it, you may like it. The only reason I have not tried one is that with 25 other motorcycles, my poor aged brain just cannot manage to remember one more thing. After 50+ years it knows about clutches, and where the foot lever is, but not about paddle shifters on the handlebars. If your brain is younger or more agile, and you don't switch back and forth, you should learn in short order.