Anyone having problems with alignment on the new 2013 ST's ???

[OldDog]

How is alignment checked and/or confirmed at the BRP factory? The Spyder is shipped with the front wheels off, correct?

Questions to ponder.

Does the new more sensitive steering on the ST require a more deliberate learning curve?

Is there a real production issue with wheel alignment of which BRP is unaware?

How would static alignment change between the factory and the dealer?

Those that have ridden the ST have said it tracks like its on rails. All the promotion by the ambassadors has been very positive as to the night and day difference in the ride between the 2012's and the new 2013's.

What are the assembly steps taken by the dealer to confirm alignment?

Chin stroking time...

[Zenagirl]

I thought I was the only one with this wandering bike issue. I traded my 2010 RS Tuesday and now have a tad over 600 miles on my new 2013 ST Limited. It is scary how it wanders even without wind. I am going to ask dealer to check alignment this week with 600 mile maintenance. If not an alignment issue is going to take some time to get use to more sensitive steering. Only other issue I have with ST is there is no glove box or any way to mount my RS tank bag.

Good luck with your 600 mile check up!! I'm nervous about getting out on my ST-S when it is delivered this weekend, knowing it has really sensitive steering compared to the previous steering has me concerned and a little scared. Just going to take it really easy and hope I can get the hang of it before long. I sure don't want to be scared everytime I take it out. You, know, I had thought the ST-L came with a glove box as well, and thought that was really cool. I was disappointed to hear that it doesn't. oh well, will have to figure something else out. Happy riding!

[NancysToy]

In modern factories, alignment is usually achieved by merely turning the rod ends in a specific number of turns. The robots that do the job may also check the rod length, but I don't think the actual alignment is ever measured. Not sure how this works with a more manual assembly system, but I doubt there is a check of the final assembly. I could be wrong. The dealer merely bolts on the wheels, he does not check alignment. Some don't even zero the steerings sensors on BUDS, electing to wait for the 600 mile service.

[OldDog]

I will state upfront that I am out of my element, but I want to ask those that know.

Am I correct in saying the shocks on the 2013's are not adjustable?

What is the median weight for correct alignment?

What is the load range of the new shocks?

Would weight below the median result in a toe out condition with the most weight on the outside of the rim?

Would weight over the median result in a toe in condition with the most weight on the inside of the rim?

Is alignment set with or without the median static load?

Am I mistaking toe in/out for camber?


Toe in/out would be along the longitudinal axis. Camber would relate to the vertical angle in or out. I think camber would be correct.

[NancysToy]

I will state upfront that I am out of my element, but I want to ask those that know.

Am I correct in saying the shocks on the 2013's are not adjustable?
That is correct, they are not adjustable.

What is the median weight for correct alignment?
The 2013 suspension geometry has been changed, so they may not have the same problem with the alignment changing as the attitude changed, that the earlier models (at least the RTs) do.

What is the load range of the new shocks?
Technically, it is the same as before, according to the specs. The spring rate is the equivalent, but the stiffness (preload) is no longer adjustable.

Would weight below the median result in a toe out condition with the most weight on the outside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a high front end attitude (from spring preload, aftermarket shocks, and/or a lightweight rider) tend to cause more toe-in. It seems to affect the RS less.

Would weight over the median result in a toe in condition with the most weight on the inside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a low front end attitude (from low spring preload, and/or a heavy rider) tend to cause more toe-out.

Is alignment set with or without the median static load?
Alignment should at least be spot checked with the normal rider/passenger/cargo load...but the prescribed alignment method calls for the Spyder to be jacked up with the front wheels removed, so the suspension is not loaded and it cannot be aligned with a normal load in place. The RT procedures compensate for loading the suspension, but the compensation is a constant.

Am I mistaking toe in/out for camber?
Caster and camber are not adjustable on the Spyder, and are pretty much fixed by the suspension geometry anyway, so toe-in is the only parameter of concern. Think of caster as the fore-aft tilt of the steering axis (kingpin angle or rake), camber as the lateral tilt of the wheels, and toe-in as how much closer the front edge centerline of the tire is than the rear edge centerline of the tire. Toe-in is the equivalent of cross-eyed.

We do not know the nature of any geometry or alignment issues on the 2013 models, if any, so it would be premature to guess at any solutions. This is nowhere to make assumptions. Let's just be patient and see what the factory, owners, and aftermarket manufacturers figure out.

[Bob Denman]

Scotty,
Thanks for spelling all of this out!

Old Dog,
Great questions!

[MMMII]

Just to increase the sample size: My ST-S is my first Spyder (received 2 weeks ago) and after 150ish miles, I don't believe I have any alignment issues. I do hope all those with issues get them resolved as I've had a blast ryding this thing around.

[duneside]

I will state upfront that I am out of my element, but I want to ask those that know.

Am I correct in saying the shocks on the 2013's are not adjustable?
That is correct, they are not adjustable.

What is the median weight for correct alignment?
The 2013 suspension geometry has been changed, so they may not have the same problem with the alignment changing as the attitude chaged, that the earlier models (at least the RTs) do.

What is the load range of the new shocks?
Technically, it is the same as before, according to the specs. The sring rate is the equivalent, but the stiffness (preload) is no longer adjustable.

Would weight below the median result in a toe out condition with the most weight on the outside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a high front end attitude (from spring preload, aftermarket shocks, and/or a lightweight rider) tend to cause more toe-in. It seems to affect the RS less.

Would weight over the median result in a toe in condition with the most weight on the inside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a low front end attitude (from low spring preload, and/or a heavy rider) tend to cause more toe-out.

Is alignment set with or without the median static load?
Alignment should at least be spot checked with the normal rider/passenger/cargo load...but the prescribed alignment method calls for the Spyder to be jacked up with the front wheels removed, so the suspension is not loaded and it cannot be aligned with a normal load in place. The RT procedures compensate for loading the suspension, but the compensation is a constant.

Am I mistaking toe in/out for camber?
Caster and camber are not adjustable on the Spyder, and are pretty much fixed by the suspension geometry anyway, so toe-in is the only parameter of concern. Think of caster as the fore-aft tilt of the steering axis (kingpin angle or rake), camber as the lateral tilt of the wheels, and toe-in as how much closer the front edge centerline of the tire is than the rear edge centerline of the tire. Toe-in is the equivalent of cross-eyed.

We do not know the nature of any geometry or alignment issues on the 2013 models, if any, so it would be premature to guess at any solutions. This is nowhere to make assumptions. Let's just be patient and see what the factory, owners, and aftermarket manufacturers figure out.

WOW! I think I hurt my brain just reading that. Scotty you are

[cyclelover63]

I agree with most of the posters here...Just ride and enjoy your new bike...A person can imagine all sorts of things...Keep and eye on the front tire wear..If you are wearing your tires out in app 5,000 miles or so,then you probably have an alignment issue with toe..Mine wore out at 6,000 miles,I had it aligned,new tires installed,now have 5,000 more miles on the new tires,and no wear showing at all..No machine is perfect,and few of them give a person the sheer enjoyment and feeling of freedom a Spyder does...I would still have mine even if I had to replace the tires every 5,000 miles..