Octane Reqirements

[SPYD3R]

more importantly than octane levels, is the application of a fuel stabilizer and conditioner...
i use STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment at most every fill-up... be careful, the Ethanol version is BLUE not the usual red.... Walmarts has it in the boating section...
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[BajaRon]

The GS/RS Spyders were designed for the lower octane gas. The RT & I believe all 2013 Spyders call for the higher octane. The higher octane level does not mean a better quality of fuel, just a higher octane content to resolve preignition issues with higher compression engines such as the RTs have (& all 2013's, I beieve). The pre-2013 GS/RS Spyders have lower compression engines and do NOT require the extra octane. If you ride a non-RT Spyder, the only benifit of spending more for higher octane is your peace of mind. It does not help your Spyder.

I have to disagree. First, the compression ratio on the RS is 10.8:1. I don't know of many engines with this high of compression that recommend 87 octane fuel. Second, I did a fuel test on a 5,000 mile + ride from east Tennessee to California and back. I would run 6 or so tanks of 87, then the same number of 89 and 92 octane fuels. I kept track of mileage (discounting the 1st switch over tank). We did about 120 miles or so on each leg.

Using 87 octane as a base mileage I found that using mid grade (89) didn't make enough difference in fuel mileage to make a definite determination of improvement. But when I switched to premium fuel I got between 2 & 3 miles per gallon better fuel mileage. I did this both going out and coming back and got the same results both times.

Yes, the GS, RS, RS-S will run fine on 87 octane because the anti-knock system simply retards the ignition. Personally, I didn't purchase a performance Can-Am Spyder to run it with the ignition retarded so I put premium in the tank every time.

Logic says that the hotter it is, the more you need a higher octane fuel. The Spyder can probably tolerate lower octane in cool to cold temps. During the run I reference above temps were in the mid 90's to low 100's.

[NancysToy]

I have to disagree. First, the compression ratio on the RS is 10.8:1. I don't know of many engines with this high of compression that recommend 87 octane fuel. Second, I did a fuel test on a 5,000 mile + ride from east Tennessee to California and back. I would run 6 or so tanks of 87, then the same number of 89 and 92 octane fuels. I kept track of mileage (discounting the 1st switch over tank). We did about 120 miles or so on each leg.

Using 87 octane as a base mileage I found that using mid grade (89) didn't make enough difference in fuel mileage to make a definite determination of improvement. But when I switched to premium fuel I got between 2 & 3 miles per gallon better fuel mileage. I did this both going out and coming back and got the same results both time.

Yes, the GS, RS, RS-S will run fine on 87 octane because the anti-knock system simply retards the ignition. Personally, I didn't purchase a performance Can-Am Spyder to run it with the ignition retarded so I put premium in the tank every time.

Logic says that the hotter it is, the more you need a higher octane fuel. The Spyder can probably tolerate lower octane in cool to cold temps. During the run I reference above temps were in the mid 90's to low 100's.

Sorry, Ron, but I have to disagree in return. If your Spyder RS got better mileage on premium, it was probably more likely due to less ethanol in the high-test, or some such factor. If you are using plain gasoline, regular burns faster than premium, so tends to knock more easily. The retarded burn rate of premium is due to a slightly lower heat capacity. In other words, it contains less energy. If all other things are equal, under controlled conditions, regular fuel will get better mileage in an engine that is designed to run it.

Of course in real life all kinds of factors alter that reality. An RT, for instance, may perform more poorly on regular because it is designed for premium, so it can get worse mileage with regular grade fuel. An RS might get worse mileage with regular if it was modified, or if the different grade had a different ethanol content. There is no cut and dried answer to the real-life results, but chemistry and physics say that in an engine designed for regular fuel, the regular should get better fuel mileage.

[Farmbanker]

You have an advantage living close to CR as BP is more readily to be found. I survive on Kwik-Star a chain out of LaCrosse, Wosconsin where the highest they carry is just 92 octane at least in my area. By the way what kind of fuel mileage should I expect to see?

Good point, I forgot that Kwik Star is more prevalent there and indeed have the better octane stuff. I do avoid ethanol though, it may be OK but there are some aspects to ethanol fuel that make me wary. Depending on how you ride, 30-35 mpg is about the best I see. I don't know if much changed with the fuel tank or guage on the new models but I just fill it up every 150-170 miles. If you haven't read the posts on proper fuel filling procedures I highly recommend doing so. It's good stuff.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Will Spyder's run well on 87 or is their appetite for expensive preminum?

??????? contrary to some "popular" beliefs . spending EXTRA money for higher Octane gas than is specified by BRP is a TOTAL WASTE of Money......This is not my opinion it is FACT......Of course you will have people here who will swear that their Spyder not only runs Faster, but Cooler, Smoother, Better, and can almost fly because they use "high" octane Gas........Whatever turns you on. Mike

[Illinois Boy]

Ethanol is a very clean burning and renewable fuel as well as helps to disperse moisture in the fuel system.

I am not wanting to get into an argument here; but I am not sure how you came to the statement that ethanol disperses moisture from fuel. Being from the corn-belt where the most ethanol is made... we would differ greatly from your statement with our research.

Let me know where you have some information about how ethanol disperses moisture... I would be very interested in learning about what you have on the subject.

In the meantime, I am going to stick with the statement that ethanol attracts moisture, and in fact itself contains moisture. The higher the ethanol content in fuel the higher the moisture content. Moisture, of course, causes phase-separation; which is not a good thing. So, from all I can find, it is stated that ethanol does not disperse moisture from the fuel.

I am willing to have my mind changed though. That's how I learn more.

Thanks!

[Illinois Boy]

Have you considered reading the Owner's manual yet ????????

He doesn't own a Spyder yet; but is considering doing so. He is only asking questions about them.

[Mayhem]

I agree with Illinois Boy. In my town all 87 octane has ethanol in it so I am forced to use Startron stabilizer in all my small engines and the Spyder to disperse moisture.

[Dizneyman]

I am not wanting to get into an argument here; but I am not sure how you came to the statement that ethanol disperses moisture from fuel. Being from the corn-belt where the most ethanol is made... we would differ greatly from your statement with our research.

Let me know where you have some information about how ethanol disperses moisture... I would be very interested in learning about what you have on the subject.

In the meantime, I am going to stick with the statement that ethanol attracts moisture, and in fact itself contains moisture. The higher the ethanol content in fuel the higher the moisture content. Moisture, of course, causes phase-separation; which is not a good thing. So, from all I can find, it is stated that ethanol does not disperse moisture from the fuel.

I am willing to have my mind changed though. That's how I learn more.

Thanks!

Thats why all marinas sell ethanol free gas. Boats fuel tanks are vented, and if you have gas with ethanol in them and they were not full, in 30 day a half full tank would be 3/4 full with 1/4 of it being water!! This is a a fact!!

[Schnauzer]

Ethanol is a very clean burning and renewable fuel as well as helps to disperse moisture in the fuel system. IMO, I hope we, meaning our governments, lean toward more ethanol in gasoline simply for the fact that it is renewable and can be made out of the crops grown on our farms.

I'm not wanting to start a bebate on ethonal,, I have seen what it does to a EFI upclose and personal. It deteriorates the integrity of all the plastic/rubber parts. It destroyed the fuel system on a 99Dyna.


I use a water repellant that has been around for years and works well for me and my engines. So far my carbs are clean, hoses are still flexible, even the internal fuel pump system on my 99EFI is working properly. No crispy critters in my tank.I can tell when I'm not adding it, my mileage drops drastically. 6-8 mpg..

I can't tell anyone honestly what grade fuel I'm running, because I have never had it tested. I press the midrange button, but does that mean that is what's truely coming from the pump. Only a handful of folks really knows what goes in the trucks. I recall a news report where a Tanker was stopped and when the fuel was tested, it was rusty/gunk.. Do we really know what lies in the bottom of the tanks..

[BajaRon]

Sorry, Ron, but I have to disagree in return. If your Spyder RS got better mileage on premium, it was probably more likely due to less ethanol in the high-test, or some such factor. If you are using plain gasoline, regular burns faster than premium, so tends to knock more easily. The retarded burn rate of premium is due to a slightly lower heat capacity. In other words, it contains less energy. If all other things are equal, under controlled conditions, regular fuel will get better mileage in an engine that is designed to run it.

Of course in real life all kinds of factors alter that reality. An RT, for instance, may perform more poorly on regular because it is designed for premium, so it can get worse mileage with regular grade fuel. An RS might get worse mileage with regular if it was modified, or if the different grade had a different ethanol content. There is no cut and dried answer to the real-life results, but chemistry and physics say that in an engine designed for regular fuel, the regular should get better fuel mileage.

I suppose that there may be differing amounts of ethanol in the different grades from pump to pump. But my understanding is that generally, each brand uses the same amount of ethanol in each fuel grade. We are talking fuels from across the US. That would seem to suggest a pretty good spread of ethanol mixes.

Conventional wisdom applies most of the time and most of the time putting premium in a vehicle that calls for regular fuel is a waste of money. I also agree that there are many variables. But I'm not pulling this stuff out of the air. I ran almost 40 tanks of fuel in this experiment and spent 7 days and over 5,000 miles tabulating this information.

I must also add that I've got a Yoshimura exhaust, K&N air filter and Juice Box, though I am not sure these made any real difference as these factors remained unchanged during my testing.

Here is what I think. BRP did much of their testing in Canada at relatively mild temps. They also wanted to generate sales and telling people they had to purchase premium fuel will turn away some buyers, especially at today's prices. And yes, the Spyder will run on regular fuel. This is just my theory but to achieve this reduced octane capability the Spyder will retard ignition in warmer climates. Retarded ignition translates to less than optimum energy transfer and results in lower fuel mileage.

BRP also recommends the coldest heat range spark plug made by NGK for the GS, RS, RS-S. I'm sure there is a good reason for this. It could be another effort to reduce knock when using regular fuel.

Theory is a wonderful thing but until someone else does a 5,000 mile test with different results I will stick with premium fuel.

[mcaccamise]

+1 Ron running a modified engin with high compression going back to the old school days of hot rodding using regular gas was a no no so for me and many others ill spend the extra buck to have that piece of mind using the higher octane makes my toys happyier.
Mike

[Bob Denman]

It's not actually about cleaner burning or better fuel economy; it's about the anti-knock qualities of the various grades of fuel.
BRP says to run at least 91; they've got no stake in the oil companies, so I'll believe them.

[MarkLawson]

There was a documentary done by CBC TV in Canada on the difference between regular gas(87), and premium(91-93). Oil companies are claiming cleaner burning and of course better fuel economy with higher octane fuels. In independent lab tests the additives in both fuels were the same so a cleaner burning fuel is not possible. There was a possible slight increase in fuel economy however for the additional cost it more than evened out. Bottom line is, use what you feel is right for you and your vehicle.



We use 87 octane fuel and look for ethanol blends where available. Ethanol is a very clean burning and renewable fuel as well as helps to disperse moisture in the fuel system. IMO, I hope we, meaning our governments, lean toward more ethanol in gasoline simply for the fact that it is renewable and can be made out of the crops grown on our farms.

Ok, the speech is over and I am stepping off my soapbox!

I can't say I've ever run across someone who has told me they look for ethanol blended gas to buy over pure gas. According to Consumer Reports, ethanol has 20% less energy by volume than gasoline, so you will get lower MPG using the blended gas. It also means we have a "perfect storm" where we are now burning our food. This drives the cost of fuel and food up. Corn crops that used to go to human consumption and animal feed now goes to ethanol distilleries. This drives the cost of corn up, which results in high feed for all livestock. Meats & dairy products then get more expensive. Farmers are also changing their crops to include a higher percentage of corn since it has a higher market value. That means that there are fewer crops planted of many other food items, driving up their costs to the consumer too. It's not an idea that has been properly thought through, but has been made into law.

[Bob Denman]

Well I ALWAYS wear my helmet when re-fueling; with or without ethanol!

[bruiser]

I use Sunoco Racing Fuel in my RT's. Problem is they tend to want to turn left all the time.

[Campverdefela]

I can't say I've ever run across someone who has told me they look for ethanol blended gas to buy over pure gas. According to Consumer Reports, ethanol has 20% less energy by volume than gasoline, so you will get lower MPG using the blended gas. It also means we have a "perfect storm" where we are now burning our food. This drives the cost of fuel and food up. Corn crops that used to go to human consumption and animal feed not goes to ethanol distilleries. This drives the cost of corn up, which results in high feed for all livestock. Meats & dairy products then get more expensive. Farmers are also changing their crops to include a higher percentage of corn since it has a higher market value. That means that there are fewer crops planted of many other food items, driving up their costs to the consumer too. It's not an idea that has been properly thought through, but has been made into law.

How true! Just what I had read in the WSJ.

[flybuddy]

We use 87 octane fuel and look for ethanol blends where available. Ethanol is a very clean burning and renewable fuel as well as helps to disperse moisture in the fuel system. IMO, I hope we, meaning our governments, lean toward more ethanol in gasoline simply for the fact that it is renewable and can be made out of the crops grown on our farms.

Ok, the speech is over and I am stepping off my soapbox!

I guess we're on a different planet..ethanol sux! 40% of US corn production goes toward ethanol. This number would be higher since there has been a huge increase in corn production overall at the expense of other food staples. Not only has this raised food prices across the board but also cattle, chicken, etc as their feed has gone way up. Food should be for eating. Ethanol does not disperse water in fuel, IT ATTRACTS water increasing corrosion of internal parts and fuel systems. It attacks some plastics and rubbers. The govt subsidizes ethanol to the tune of 45 cents per gallon. It has less energy than gas which reduces mpg increasing pollutants simply because more fuel is burned. Many green organizations have retracted their support of ethanol. It needs to go.

[MaybeSpyder?]

I have to disagree. First, the compression ratio on the RS is 10.8:1. I don't know of many engines with this high of compression that recommend 87 octane fuel. Second, I did a fuel test on a 5,000 mile + ride from east Tennessee to California and back. I would run 6 or so tanks of 87, then the same number of 89 and 92 octane fuels. I kept track of mileage (discounting the 1st switch over tank). We did about 120 miles or so on each leg.

Using 87 octane as a base mileage I found that using mid grade (89) didn't make enough difference in fuel mileage to make a definite determination of improvement. But when I switched to premium fuel I got between 2 & 3 miles per gallon better fuel mileage. I did this both going out and coming back and got the same results both times.

Yes, the GS, RS, RS-S will run fine on 87 octane because the anti-knock system simply retards the ignition. Personally, I didn't purchase a performance Can-Am Spyder to run it with the ignition retarded so I put premium in the tank every time.

Logic says that the hotter it is, the more you need a higher octane fuel. The Spyder can probably tolerate lower octane in cool to cold temps. During the run I reference above temps were in the mid 90's to low 100's.

Hi; I'm the newbie here. So is the RS version considered a more performance vehicle than the RT? Just curious?

[bruiser]

The RS is the sport version. GS was the original designator. The RT came along in 2010.

[ARtraveler]

Think of RS as in "sport bike" or crotch rocket. Think of RT as touring comfort--like Goldwing.

[rock]

i would suggest running 92-93 octane allways... i get better mileage and much better performance from high test...

[Bob Denman]

Cost versus perceived benefit... In my neighborhood; it's about a dollar's worth of difference at the pumps.
Cheap enough to make me go "Top Shelf"!

[MLavore]

Ethanol is one thing if your vehicle was designed to tolerate it, most were not but will not suffer damage. I avoid it whenever possible simply because ethanol in and of itself is 96% pure, the last 4% being water. I took two bowls of fuel and let them sit on a counter top, one 10% ethanol, one non-ethanol, both 93 octane. After about 5 minutes you can see moisture start to gather on top of the fuel and on the inside surfaces of the bowl. No thanks.

[MaybeSpyder?]

There was a documentary done by CBC TV in Canada on the difference between regular gas(87), and premium(91-93). Oil companies are claiming cleaner burning and of course better fuel economy with higher octane fuels. In independent lab tests the additives in both fuels were the same so a cleaner burning fuel is not possible. There was a possible slight increase in fuel economy however for the additional cost it more than evened out. Bottom line is, use what you feel is right for you and your vehicle.



We use 87 octane fuel and look for ethanol blends where available. Ethanol is a very clean burning and renewable fuel as well as helps to disperse moisture in the fuel system. IMO, I hope we, meaning our governments, lean toward more ethanol in gasoline simply for the fact that it is renewable and can be made out of the crops grown on our farms.

Ok, the speech is over and I am stepping off my soapbox!

Hi; I see that you own a RT limited 2012. I saw one at a dealership online used with just 300 miles on it. The dealer is asking $27,500.00 is that a fair price or should it be lower. Also white. Bike is at Leer's Powersports, waterloo, Iowa