Clutch kit for 09 se5.

[Desert Spyder]

Reason I ask, is now when I put it in 1st or reverse, the clutch grabs and at an idle will try to move the machine if it is on the level. Really not a problem, just don't have to have the rpm's up to approximately 2400 for it to engage. Slight brake pressure holds it just fine.

This describes my RT to the T. My clutch hub disintegrated coming home from Durango. After the dealer there, good people BTW, replaced it the bike was a creeper. It was safe and driveable so I took it home. Lately I've been noticing some slippage from 1st to 2nd. There have been other anomalies recently which I can't put my finger on by what has been suggested here it sounds like the clutch plates should be changed out. Right?

Remember Lamont our conversation on this a few months back? After 3000 miles or so since Durango the bike is still a creeper.

BTW, I own a '10 RT SE5, and use Rons Amsoil. My last oil change was at the dealer for the filter kit. BTW, they only changed the clutch hub in Durango, no other parts.

[billybovine]

This all very helpful and I thankyou for sharing......Is the new oil nozzle available as a separate part and if so do you know the #,.......and should all the SE trans be retro fitted with this nozzle or just certain years and models ??????.......Thanks ......Mike

This clutch upgrade is not just for the SE. There is a kit for SE and another for SM. This is logical because clutch packs in both are identical except for one plate and the oil nozzles are the same. It also looks like it applies to all models from 2008 to 2012. I will wait until I have trouble or decide to rebuild the clutch and get the kit with the new nozzle.

[DLE]

This describes my RT to the T. My clutch hub disintegrated coming home from Durango. After the dealer there, good people BTW, replaced it the bike was a creeper. It was safe and driveable so I took it home. Lately I've been noticing some slippage from 1st to 2nd. There have been other anomalies recently which I can't put my finger on by what has been suggested here it sounds like the clutch plates should be changed out. Right?

Remember Lamont our conversation on this a few months back? After 3000 miles or so since Durango the bike is still a creeper.

BTW, I own a '10 RT SE5, and use Rons Amsoil. My last oil change was at the dealer for the filter kit. BTW, they only changed the clutch hub in Durango, no other parts.

The centrifical clutch assembly, without going into much detail, contains several disc's that perform different functions and some centrifical weights referred to as rollers. As the engine RPM's increase and the clutch spins, these rollers, which resemble small dumb bells, move out, increasing the pressure on the clutch discs, causing the clutch to engage and move the machine. When your clutch is setup properly, there are adjustment plates that provide a predetermined amount of clearance so, ideally at an idle, the clutch would not be engaged and at approximately 2400 rpm's it would engage.

When my machine was new, and the clutch was, for a lack of being able to describe it differently, tight, there was a small amount of creep when I would put it in 1st or reverse. As the clutch loosened up, that clearance became excessive, and I noticed the clutch was not engaging as quickly and was definitely was closer to 2400+ rpm's. But that also lead to excessive wear to the friction plates and under hard acceleration, as the rpm's picked up, the rollers in the clutch pack were all the way out, but as the wear on the friction plates was becoming excessive, the clearance was too great and the clutch was slipping, which would create much heat and over time burn and possibly warp some of the plates.
When I installed a my new clutch pack, the proper clearance was restored and now at an idle, the clutch does have a small amount of pressure being exerted on the friction disks at an idle. This will get better the more it is driven.
The most important take away from this is to realize that the biggest enemy to your clutch is driving and shifting at low RPM's. This can cause a lack of complete pressure on the disk pack, and the slippage to occur, providing excess wear on the friction disks.
The oil nozzle is part of the new disk pack, and does provide better oil distribution into the axis of the disk pack. I do not know if this is available separately.
Wish I could repost the photos, but have spent several hours trying and have not been sucessful.

So repent of your driving errors, go forth, keeping your rpm's and shift points high, rejoice and be happy, enjoy riding your machine thoughout the land.

[docdoru]

The most important take away from this is to realize that the biggest enemy to your clutch is driving and shifting at low RPM's.

NOT my case (RS SM5):

[DLE]

NOT my case (RS SM5):

Sorry, you are correct. Should have clarified that I was referring to the se5.

[rcturner]

What does the new oil nozzle do ? Is it already in my 2012 RT ?

Back to my original question, does my 2012 have the new nozzle? Based on the additional information included in this post, it is a significant change but nothing about when it was incorporated into production.

[Lamonster]

Back to my original question, does my 2012 have the new nozzle? Based on the additional information included in this post, it is a significant change but nothing about when it was incorporated into production.

Pretty sure this is a 2013 change but you can purchase the updated parts.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Pretty sure this is a 2013 change but you can purchase the updated parts.

Lamont, when you say parts ....Do you mean an entire Clutch kit ....or can you just get the" OIL NOZZLE ".......and if you can get the oil nozzle do you have a part #.............Thanks ...much appreciated..............Mike

[rcturner]

Pretty sure this is a 2013 change but you can purchase the updated parts.

What would be the circumstances that would make this modification necessary or at least desirable ? Is this a modification that could be done by the home mechanic that has about 50 years of experience working on motorcycles, cars, etc or is it something that needs to be done by the dealer ?

[DLE]

What would be the circumstances that would make this modification necessary or at least desirable ? Is this a modification that could be done by the home mechanic that has about 50 years of experience working on motorcycles, cars, etc or is it something that needs to be done by the dealer ?

Putting a new nozzle in is a very simple, straight forward procedure. Taking the panels off to gain access to the location will take you twice the time as the actual procedure to replace it.
Not sure how necessary it is, it is something that is part of the new clutch pack.

[rcturner]

BRP knows about weak/ slipping clutch since 2009, new clutch in all Spyders since 2011, I bought my 2009 Spy brand new and they replaced/upgraded a clutch under warranty, it was never a Recall but well known issue. Sunshine riders who never opens the throttle will never even notice before their clutch slowly and surely smokes off - when warranty is gone.

Not sure how necessary it is, it is something that is part of the new clutch pack.

Based on the first response above, the new clutch was incorporated in 2011. There must still be some kind of weakness that has caused them to redesign and include the nozzle change in the 2013 model after having the new clutch for two model years. What are we missing ?

[NancysToy]

Based on the first response above, the new clutch was incorporated in 2011. There must still be some kind of weakness that has caused them to redesign and include the nozzle change in the 2013 model after having the new clutch for two model years. What are we missing ?

The new clutch has thicker plates, which I suspect addresses the plate warping that has been seen...as well as more plates and discs, which will add friction and clutch surface area. The longer nozzle will distribute oil to the center of the pack, which should address heat buildup (which warps plates and burns discs) and relatively dry discs (which causes discs to slip or burn, and reduces clutch effectiveness). I don't think this will result in a clutch that can take more horsepower or hard use, because the clutch pressure remains the same, but it will make the clutches more durable and increase clutch longevity for the average rider. JMHO

[docdoru]

I don't think this will result in a clutch that can take more horsepower or hard use, because the clutch pressure remains the same, but it will make the clutches more durable and increase clutch longevity for the average rider. JMHO

I will test that...

[billybovine]

BRP knows about weak/ slipping clutch since 2009, new clutch in all Spyders since 2011, I bought my 2009 Spy brand new and they replaced/upgraded a clutch under warranty, it was never a Recall but well known issue. Sunshine riders who never opens the throttle will never even notice before their clutch slowly and surely smokes off - when warranty is gone.



Based on the first response above, the new clutch was incorporated in 2011. There must still be some kind of weakness that has caused them to redesign and include the nozzle change in the 2013 model after having the new clutch for two model years. What are we missing ?

According to BRP's parts catalog all Spyders from 2008 to 2012, SE5 and SM5 use the same Friction Plates 420259266 3.5mm, Clutch Plates 420259263 1.5 mm. If there was a difference made in 2011 model year it was not in the clutch pack that the new kit addresses.

[NancysToy]

According to BRP's parts catalog all Spyders from 2008 to 2012, SE5 and SM5 use the same Friction Plates 420259266 3.5mm, Clutch Plates 420259263 1.5 mm. If there was a difference made in 2011 model year it was not in the clutch pack that the new kit addresses.

The new friction plates are 2.4 mm, compared to the old 3.5 mm discs. The new plates are 1.8 to 2.1 mm, comapered to 1.5 mm for the old ones. The hardened plate remains the same for the SM, at 1.5 mm, but increses to 3.0 mm compared to 2.5 mm for the SE. See Service Bulletin 2012-7, published 8/27/2012. The SE also requires a new adjustment plate kit (P/N 420 281 535) not included in the clutch kit. I suspect the parts fiche has not caught up with the changes yet, but the TSB states that the old configuration parts are no longer available. BTW, these changes were introduced during the 2012 production run, beginning with S/N 8658417 for the SM and 8658270 for the SE.

[Lamonster]

The they went to a thinner friction plate because they are using a steel plate now instead of aluminum so they were able to reduce the stack height and get the extra plates in.

[billybovine]

The new friction plates are 2.4 mm, compared to the old 3.5 mm discs. The new plates are 1.8 to 2.1 mm, comapered to 1.5 mm for the old ones. The hardened plate remains the same for the SM, at 1.5 mm, but increses to 3.0 mm compared to 2.5 mm for the SE. See Service Bulletin 2012-7, published 8/27/2012. The SE also requires a new adjustment plate kit (P/N 420 281 535) not included in the clutch kit. I suspect the parts fiche has not caught up with the changes yet, but the TSB states that the old configuration parts are no longer available. BTW, these changes were introduced during the 2012 production run, beginning with S/N 8658417 for the SM and 8658270 for the SE.

I know that the friction and clutch plates have changed dimensions, a previous post by Lamont clearly outlined that. I was responding to a post that said the clutch was changed in 2011 and I could not find any evidence of it. Even if the parts changed during the 2011 model year it still should have showed up in the 2012 parts catalog. What's new to me that the change was made during the 2012 production run and proves my point that it was not done in 2011.

[DLE]

I will test that...

After looking at your chart that you posted, and my limited knowledge concerning your machine, (ie, sm5, turbo charged) I had a couple of questions. The sm5 has a vacuum assist clutch that comes into play up to approx. 4000 rpm's or your throttle position, less bringing on more assist. When you installed your turbo, were you required to install a vacuum pump to make up for the lost vacuum? I'm assuming, that your shift points would be higher then 4000 rpm's, so the vacuum would not be enabled or required at that point.
At what RPM's does your turbo start coming on? If at below 4000 rpm's, this would cause a loss of vacuum assist to the clutch. And possibly the lower rpm failures compounding into upper rpm (above 6000) failures.
I thought you mentioned you had gone through 7 clutches. I would be interested in learning how they failed, ie, gradually, slipping, catastrophic?

[DLE]

The they went to a thinner friction plate because they are using a steel plate now instead of aluminum so they were able to reduce the stack height and get the extra plates in.

The steel driven plate, while thicker, also has offset tabs on the perimeter, providing clearance for the friction plate tabs as they are also offset as well as being U shaped, while still allowing them to marry up to the friction plate, probably making for better oil flow and cooling. And allowing the clearance for the extra plates.

[docdoru]

After looking at your chart that you posted, and my limited knowledge concerning your machine, (ie, sm5, turbo charged) I had a couple of questions. The sm5 has a vacuum assist clutch that comes into play up to approx. 4000 rpm's or your throttle position, less bringing on more assist. When you installed your turbo, were you required to install a vacuum pump to make up for the lost vacuum? I'm assuming, that your shift points would be higher then 4000 rpm's, so the vacuum would not be enabled or required at that point.
At what RPM's does your turbo start coming on? If at below 4000 rpm's, this would cause a lost of vacuum assist to the clutch. And possibly the lower rpm failures compounding into upper rpm (above 6000) failures.
I thought you mentioned you had gone through 7 clutches. I would be interested in learning how they failed, ie, gradually, slipping, catastrophic?

Lets start with the last q: the clutches never failed catastrophic, just progressive slipping.
The Aerocharge Turbo doesn't required the auxiliary vacuum pump.
The clutch #8 (with 16K miles, zero slippage - including the FIM World Record in Bonneville) is a combination of BRP basket and Hayabusa (steel and friction plates) with Monster springs.

[rcturner]

BTW, these changes were introduced during the 2012 production run, beginning with S/N 8658417 for the SM and 8658270 for the SE.

Are these engine serial numbers ? My bike serial number is nothing like these.

[NancysToy]

Are these engine serial numbers ? My bike serial number is nothing like these.

Quite possibly. They are not the same as VIN#s. They are what BRP lists in the TSB.

[Spydy76]

Hello everybody

I need to change the clutch-kit on my 2009 GS-SE.
I have just got the clutch-kit (420 281 935) + adjustement kit and I´m looking for some information how to install it, because some parts are different comparing to the old one.

Can somebody send me the service bulletin 20012-7 or can somebody give me some information about:

• which side to insert the friction plates - the small brackets with the open side or with the side marked with a number to the outside
• is there a special sequence to insert the steel plates - the thickness is different (up to +0,2mm)

It would be great if somebody can help me.
Thanks in advance.

Spydy76

[OZZ3]

Spydy76, Did anyone reply with information you requested on assembly of new style clutch kit for se5? OZZ3
If so could you pass this on to me, I am in the middle of clutch change on a friends 2011 SE5 RT right now. send to "osbornlk@my180.net" Thanks.

[Peter Aawen]

Hi OZZ3, rather than waiting for an answer in a thread that hadn't seen a post for 2 & 1/2 years, Spydy76 started a new thread, got his answer, & we haven't seen him since April 2015!

Here's a link to his thread: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...909#post963909

For what it's worth, it looks like the solution was to follow the instructions in the 2013 Workshop Manual, but have a read & see what you think. Good Luck!