Oil Issues

[BajaRon]

You said it with added color.

Just be glad nobody brought up the new SN rating. I guess I did.

[Grandpa Spyder]

I have been using AmsOil MC 10/40 every since my 600 mile service. it is rated MA2. So I guess I will just keep doing the same thing I have been doing.

[pellcitypete]

Hey now! I was not mentioning any names. Besides, you were just the straw, not the entire bundle. Since I sell oil and filters I think I get a lot more 'Personal' information than most. People think I have all the answers, which I do not, but I do try to steer people in the right direction with a minimum of bias (if that is possible).

Some mistakes take awhile to manifest and I just hate to see people trying to do the right thing and yet going the wrong way.

We can all learn somthing from each other. I'm just throwing in my 2 cents. Together we can make a difference. (I'll quit now because I think I'm starting to sound like some tree hugger ad!)

Hay bajaron I always injoy reading ur post and have learned alot so don't stop we all can learn from eachother !

[MrBones]

Rotella T synthetic is a 5W 40W. Used it alot in the Valk.

[MrBones]

Just checked my full synthetic oil and its a CJ 4-SM. So guess its not good for my RS-S then?

[BajaRon]

Just checked my full synthetic oil and its a CJ 4-SM. So guess its not good for my RS-S then?

Pretty amazing that your clutch is not slipping. Others have tried Rotella and had clutch slippage issues. Rotella is a great oil, just not good for the Spyder.

The other thing that has happened is that oils have changed. Mobil 1 used to be a great wet clutch oil. Now it's not. Could be the same thing for Rotella.

[gimpygary62]

Rather than start another oil thread I thought I'd piggy back on this one. Apologies to everyone if this already has been answered but I really did take the time to search but came up empty. (My incompetence knows no bounds)

How much oil should I be able to drain out of my GS2009 SE5?

Thanks,
Gary

[Fire Bike]

So after reading all of this, and being a recent Goldwing to Spyder convert,. Is synthetic oil acceptable (recommended) for use in my new RT-s?

[fastfraser]

Thanks for the great info . To stay on the oil subject -can I get a case of oil and some filters at Lamonts BBQ.

[billybovine]

This is the oil spec from the 2012 RS operators manual.

oil spec.jpg

[donnellpj]

I'm no grease monkey,... so bare with me here, please,...

I JUST had my 600 mile service, picking it up tonight from my dealer, and I JUST had them use Mobil 1 4T 10w40 at roughly $70 a case. (Used the BRP filter per the recent changes).

I did this in preparation for the trip to TN.

At over 1200+ miles round trip, plus ride day, are you suggesting I am potentially going to cause damage to my clutch in my RT SE5 using this oil? Here I thought I was doing my homework in advance,...

Thanks for all the great info here, I did learn a few things, just looking for the clarification.

[billybovine]

I'm no grease monkey,... so bare with me here, please,...

I JUST had my 600 mile service, picking it up tonight from my dealer, and I JUST had them use Mobil 1 4T 10w40 at roughly $70 a case. (Used the BRP filter per the recent changes).

I did this in preparation for the trip to TN.

At over 1200+ miles round trip, plus ride day, are you suggesting I am potentially going to cause damage to my clutch in my RT SE5 using this oil? Here I thought I was doing my homework in advance,...

Thanks for all the great info here, I did learn a few things, just looking for the clarification.

I don't know if your clutch will slip with Mobil 1 4T. BRP says that it will. But from my experience I tried Rotella T6 last year because of some recommendations and it meet the JASO MA spec for clutch slippage even though it was rated SM. Big mistake I first noticed the clutch slipping at about 1000 kms (600 mi). I immediately dumped the oil, changed the filters and refilled with Aimsoil. It still took a couple hundred kms before the clutch stopped slipping. Everything seems fine now but I don’t know how much life I took out of the clutch.

[Bad Dog6]

It may be written somewhere else but I find it interesting that there are no API ratings on the BRP Oil Bottles. I checked the Harley Oils and no ratings on them either. I wonder if Cesar Chavez (Citgo) makes the BRP oil also?

[BajaRon]

Thanks for the great info . To stay on the oil subject -can I get a case of oil and some filters at Lamonts BBQ.

I will have some Amsoil at the BBQ but without knowing how much people want I'm not planning on having a lot since I don't stock it (except for myself and Lamont's needs).

I can still get more delivered before the BBQ but it will be 1st come, 1st served till I run out.

Rather than start another oil thread I thought I'd piggy back on this one. Apologies to everyone if this already has been answered but I really did take the time to search but came up empty. (My incompetence knows no bounds)

How much oil should I be able to drain out of my GS2009 SE5?

Thanks,
Gary

If your Spyder is full then it should be just over 4 quarts that you'll drain. There will be some in the filters that you won't be able to measure.

So after reading all of this, and being a recent Goldwing to Spyder convert,. Is synthetic oil acceptable (recommended) for use in my new RT-s?

Absolutely! Hightly recommended! BRP originally spec'd full synthetic oil for the Spyder.

I'm no grease monkey,... so bare with me here, please,...

I JUST had my 600 mile service, picking it up tonight from my dealer, and I JUST had them use Mobil 1 4T 10w40 at roughly $70 a case.(Used the BRP filter per the recent changes).

I did this in preparation for the trip to TN.

At over 1200+ miles round trip, plus ride day, are you suggesting I am potentially going to cause damage to my clutch in my RT SE5 using this oil? Here I thought I was doing my homework in advance,...

Thanks for all the great info here, I did learn a few things, just looking for the clarification.

The Spec sheet on this oil states - Meets JASO MA - which almost always means it is does NOT meet the highest MA rating of MA2 (otherwise they would say so). The Rotax engine combined with our pretty heavy Spyder really needs a very wet clutch friendly oil with an MA2 rating (IMHO). And since it is easy to get very good oils with the MA2 rating, why not?

I would be very sensitive to any possibilty of clutch slippage and if you experience any, change your oil and filters right away to an MA2 rated oil (all other ratings being correct as well).

Clutches don't slip a lot before needing to be replaced.

It may be written somewhere else but I find it interesting that there are no API ratings on the BRP Oil Bottles. I checked the Harley Oils and no ratings on them either. I wonder if Cesar Chavez (Citgo) makes the BRP oil also?

Just my opinion but I think they do this because this gives them the freedom to change oil in the bottle without telling anyone or having to change the specs on the outside. Right now you're getting Castrol 10w-40 blended or Castrol 5w-40 full synthetic in a BRP labeled bottle. You can find specs for these oils on the web or by looking at a Castrol bottle at the store.

[flybuddy]

Good stuff!! Just a couple of points to clarify..The bottom viscosity number is what we should worry about. The high number is only what it's been stretched to behave like and this number diminishes as mileage is added. Other issue is that these "close" tolerance Rotax engines are using fairly significant oil between changes. Most folks write these off due to operator dipstick errors because of the dry sump but they do actually use significant oil for low time water cooled engines. Could this be a sign of too low a viscosity oil being used?

[BajaRon]

Good stuff!! Just a couple of points to clarify..The bottom viscosity number is what we should worry about. The high number is only what it's been stretched to behave like and this number diminishes as mileage is added. Other issue is that these "close" tolerance Rotax engines are using fairly significant oil between changes. Most folks write these off due to operator dipstick errors because of the dry sump but they do actually use significant oil for low time water cooled engines. Could this be a sign of too low a viscosity oil being used?

This 'bottom viscosity number' issue is true for oils that need viscosity modifiers (additives) to keep them from getting too thick when cold. But it is not accurate for True, Full Synthetic Oil. True synthetic oil does not need viscosity additives because it does not thicken much when it gets cold (as does standard oil or fake Group III synthetic oil).

There are very good articles regarding this on the web. Here is a portion of one. I have edited it to make it shorter. You can read the entire article here; http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

What about synthetic motor oils? Do they need Viscosity Additives?
Group IV (4) base oil (synthetic) is chemically made and does not need Viscosity Additives. However, in recent years Group III (3) based oils have been labeled "synthetic" through a legal loophole. Group III (3) "synthetic" motor oils must employ Viscosity Additives being petroleum based.

Group IV (4) PAO based synthetics make the best motor oils. They are compatible with petroleum based oils and fuels plus they have better seal swell than petroleum. Typically PAO based motor oils use no Viscosity Additives yet pass the multi-grade viscosity requirements as a straight weight! This makes them ideal under a greater temperature range. One advantage of not having to employ Viscosity Improving additives is having a more pure undiluted lubricant that can be loaded with more longevity and performance additives to keep the oil cleaner longer with better mileage/horsepower.

How do I know what motor oil is a Group IV (4) based PAO synthetic motor oil?
Many large oil companies switched their "synthetic" motor oils to the less expensive/more profitable Group III (3) base stocks, including Castrol Syntec.

[flybuddy]

Good info---what about oil loss? What do you think the cause of high oil consumption might be with these engines as there are quite a few folks that have pointed to this as an issue.

[BajaRon]

Good info---what about oil loss? What do you think the cause of high oil consumption might be with these engines as there are quite a few folks that have pointed to this as an issue.

I don't have a good answer for this. The Rotax does seem to use more oil than you would expect but the amount seems to be all over the map. Some use a lot, some not so much.

The obvious answer would be oil getting by the rings. But there is more than 1 reason this may be happening. I wonder if lugging the engine might increase oil consumption.

Overfilling may be the cause in some cases too.

The type and viscosity of oil can also be a factor.

I've used 10w-40 Amsoil in my Spyder since early on. It's got 31K on it now and on our recent 6,000 mile round trip from East Tennessee to California I used a total of less than 1/2 quart. I did not change oil so I don't think that's too bad for that distance. Several days we traveled all day in triple digit temperatures as well.

[bruiser]

My phaser device doesn't use oil. It uses phased ion dilitium crystals.

[BajaRon]

My phaser device doesn't use oil. It uses phased ion dilitium crystals.

Really! Does it look like this?