RT Vibration continues

[Firefly]

DITTO!! Exactly my thoughts, and the same gripe. BRP or any manufacturer should NOT put a product out for sale that is not fully production ready, or they should recall and fix the problem. The intermittant hard vibes from the belt drive is a real PITA, and takes the shine off of the product. Until BRP chooses to re-engineer the drive line, I will just have to live with it. 3600 miles since June 8th; 3 belt tension adjustments, 3 dealer services, and no improvement. Local dealer has bent over backwards to help with the situation and agrees with me, but BRP says it's normal?!!# I challenge BRP's senior Spyder engineer to get on a new factory RT, leave Quebec and run down to Florida on Interstate 95 at the normal 70-80 mph; look me in the face and tell me this is "NORMAL". Short jaunts, you might be fine, but for extended travel, at speeds of 70-80 (5000-6000 rpm in 5th) it will drive you crazy as it comes and goes. After 50 years of riding, no single cycle, sidecar setup, etc, has had this effect on me. BRP HELP!

I did 800 miles straight on my new RT-- all highway and had no such vibrations.

I now have 3,000 miles on it during the last month and have only noticed it is far smoother than my GS ever was... so for me it's a dream to ride.

Sorry you're having such problems.

While this might not be your issue, I think some are just frankly lugging the engine because they're in the wrong gear.

I really want to meet up with someone with this problem and take one for a spin......

[A1A]

I have had motorcycles for the last 32 years from Indian, Harley to the most recent trade in a Gold Wing. This is not a VTwin vibration issue or a novice issue. Maybe I should say any ex Harley riders wouldn't notice cause of the vibrations they lived with all their life....Its condescending. This is a drive belt issue that has been known about for almost 4 years. Do a search on this forum to see how many ppl have had this issue. Vendors are making and manufacturing a Tensioner for the RT because of this issue(at $280 a pop). Its unacceptable for a bike that cost this much to be like this and the manufacture ignore it. I did take it to the dealer today about this issue and tension was fine based on static test. But there is a slippage at the 5100-550 RPM range that LOTS of RT riders are experiencing and BRP does nothing.

All you have to do is read the article on this site.
http://www.smoothspyder.com/

So what do we do as a group about these issues? MOD our bikes so warranties are void or what?
Frustrated...

I feel your frustration my friend, catch 22 to say the least. I could almost tolerate a 400 rpm range of the drive belt flapping around. But for me its 900 to 1,000 rpm range of continuous drive belt flapping under acelleration and at a cruise. I have to put up with this in 3rd, 4th, & 5th gears at 5300 through 6200 rpm.
Like you I like the Spyder RT, but if we don't get any resolution on the drive belt problem. I'm afraid I'll be sorry indeed the day I bought it.
Come on BRP step up to the plate and get this fixed.
A very concerned Spyder RT owner.

[Jeriatric]

What fuel issues??

After the 2010 models, BRP redesigned the front suspension to make it better. I put 300 miles on a totally stock RT in Cuba and in handled great... but since I had Elka's on before and liked them... I did them again on my RT.

The 'heat issues' only occur when people are placing their feet where they don't belong. If you want to modify the Spyder to allow forward 'highway' foot positions, you'll need to modify it to vent the heat somewhere besides your right foot.

Not true.

[phj]

Not true.

X2

[Jeriatric]

I did 800 miles straight on my new RT-- all highway and had no such vibrations.

I now have 3,000 miles on it during the last month and have only noticed it is far smoother than my GS ever was... so for me it's a dream to ride.

Sorry you're having such problems.

While this might not be your issue, I think some are just frankly lugging the engine because they're in the wrong gear.

I really want to meet up with someone with this problem and take one for a spin......

My first ride was 1600 miles in two days and that included stoping midway to get a hitch, harness and trailer install - all freeway - at speeds from 70 to 90 MPH and the belt vibrated like crazy, trust me, my Spyder doesn't know what it is to be lugged.

While some may or may not be operating their Spyders properly thus causing the problem.

Some of us do know what we are doing, and the vibration is real - not due to operator error.

Thankfully for my Spyder......CaptJims work around took care of a problem BRP calls NORMAL.

[Firefly]

Not true.

Really? Where's the other heat problem happening on RT's then? I'm unfamiliar with heat issues other than the 'forward peg' one.. which can be fixed with the block-off plate from Harvey.

Other than the 'forward peg' area, I've found the RT to be cooler on the feet and legs than my GS was.

[Jeriatric]

Really? Where's the other heat problem happening on RT's then? I'm unfamiliar with heat issues other than the 'forward peg' one.. which can be fixed with the block-off plate from Harvey.

Other than the 'forward peg' area, I've found the RT to be cooler on the feet and legs than my GS was.

Previous answers to similar question.

Posted by Jerbear

The upper block off plate is intended for those who use highway pegs. If you don't use highway pegs or place your feet out on the water deflectors you're barking up a tree that doesn't have a possum in it. So to speak

Also, it's worth your time to take a look at what part of the country, and the average temperatures there, when someone says something works for them. We are not all equal when it comes to how hot it is where we do the bulk of our riding. JMO & lesson learned.
...........................

Originally Posted by flybuddy
Same experience. If you just use the lower block off plate and do not use highway pegs, you will eliminate the right hot foot issue.

Poste by Jerbear

Somtimes.

I'm 6' 4" with a 36 inch inseam and my right knee gets hot already from the upper vent. If I were to block off the lower vent I would only move the problem to a new area(more heat on my knee). Much like those who block things off and end up with hot air coming up between the saddle and the glove box.

You said it best when you said (pretty sure it was you?) "it's like chasing a moving target."

One thing I've learned here is there are a lot of variables to consider when it comes to why something works for one and not for the other.
...............................

Then there is this post which is chocked full of opinions and data.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...r-Solution-for

[Firefly]

Previous answers to similar question.

Posted by Jerbear

The upper block off plate is intended for those who use highway pegs. If you don't use highway pegs or place your feet out on the water deflectors you're barking up a tree that doesn't have a possum in it. So to speak

Also, it's worth your time to take a look at what part of the country, and the average temperatures there, when someone says something works for them. We are not all equal when it comes to how hot it is where we do the bulk of our riding. JMO & lesson learned.
...........................

Originally Posted by flybuddy
Same experience. If you just use the lower block off plate and do not use highway pegs, you will eliminate the right hot foot issue.

Poste by Jerbear

Somtimes.

I'm 6' 4" with a 36 inch inseam and my right knee gets hot already from the upper vent. If I were to block off the lower vent I would only move the problem to a new area(more heat on my knee). Much like those who block things off and end up with hot air coming up between the saddle and the glove box.

You said it best when you said (pretty sure it was you?) "it's like chasing a moving target."

One thing I've learned here is there are a lot of variables to consider when it comes to why something works for one and not for the other.
...............................

Then there is this post which is chocked full of opinions and data.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...r-Solution-for

Interesting. Seems to be hit or miss like the vibrations.

I don't wear boots... just regular old shoes. On the way back from durango I rode in 110 degree heat and did have quite a bit of hot foot on my GS. After trashing my GS and continuing the rest of the trip on my RT, I noticed the heat was basically gone on the RT... when using the stock pegs. When moving to the highway peg position it was HOT!

Since I've been home, I added: Upper block-off plate, removed splash pans, installed cat converter shield. I did have a passenger mention a lot of heat on their right foot.... which is now gone after the cat shield was installed.

[saint999]

What fuel issues??

After the 2010 models, BRP redesigned the front suspension to make it better. I put 300 miles on a totally stock RT in Cuba and in handled great... but since I had Elka's on before and liked them... I did them again on my RT.

The 'heat issues' only occur when people are placing their feet where they don't belong. If you want to modify the Spyder to allow forward 'highway' foot positions, you'll need to modify it to vent the heat somewhere besides your right foot.

Not True again on the heat issue. No mods on my bike at all yet. Just 95+ weather in traffice. As for fuel, BRP responds to smell so bad I have to leave my garage doors open for 3 hours after riding that I just shouldn't fill the tank up. There are still solenoid and carbon canister issues with the fuel design.

[Ga Blue Knight]

Really? Where's the other heat problem happening on RT's then? I'm unfamiliar with heat issues other than the 'forward peg' one.. which can be fixed with the block-off plate from Harvey.

Other than the 'forward peg' area, I've found the RT to be cooler on the feet and legs than my GS was.

I agree x2

[spyder stryder]

I feel your frustration my friend, catch 22 to say the least. I could almost tolerate a 400 rpm range of the drive belt flapping around. But for me its 900 to 1,000 rpm range of continuous drive belt flapping under acelleration and at a cruise. I have to put up with this in 3rd, 4th, & 5th gears at 5300 through 6200 rpm.
Like you I like the Spyder RT, but if we don't get any resolution on the drive belt problem. I'm afraid I'll be sorry indeed the day I bought it.
Come on BRP step up to the plate and get this fixed.
A very concerned Spyder RT owner.

My 2012 also had this vibration, the dealer adjusted the belt several times
without helping much.Then we started checking the belt and the sprockets,
what we found was the engine out of alinement. Like the front was over to
the left to much causing the belt to ride hard up against the outer back edge
of the drive pully.Looking at the outer edge of the belt you could see where it
was wearing on it.He loosend the engine mounting bolts an used a 3/4 round
bar to push through the line up holes ( had to do a little wiggleing on the engine)
so the bar would go through then retighten the bolts. Reset the belt tension,so
far so good in the last 400 miles. Might need to have your spyders checked for this.

spyder stryder

[Jeriatric]

My 2012 also had this vibration, the dealer adjusted the belt several times
without helping much.Then we started checking the belt and the sprockets,
what we found was the engine out of alinement. Like the front was over to
the left to much causing the belt to ride hard up against the outer back edge
of the drive pully.Looking at the outer edge of the belt you could see where it
was wearing on it.He loosend the engine mounting bolts an used a 3/4 round
bar to push through the line up holes ( had to do a little wiggleing on the engine)
so the bar would go through then retighten the bolts. Reset the belt tension,so
far so good in the last 400 miles. Might need to have your spyders checked for this.

spyder stryder

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this

Keep us posted.

Edit: procedure is on pg 20 in the shop manual and the alignment rod is a homeade tool.

[Ga Blue Knight]

Maybe this is a possible cause? It could explain why some folks are going bonkers and others don't understand what the problem is.

[A1A]

My 2012 also had this vibration, the dealer adjusted the belt several times
without helping much.Then we started checking the belt and the sprockets,
what we found was the engine out of alinement. Like the front was over to
the left to much causing the belt to ride hard up against the outer back edge
of the drive pully.Looking at the outer edge of the belt you could see where it
was wearing on it.He loosend the engine mounting bolts an used a 3/4 round
bar to push through the line up holes ( had to do a little wiggleing on the engine)
so the bar would go through then retighten the bolts. Reset the belt tension,so
far so good in the last 400 miles. Might need to have your spyders checked for this.

spyder stryder

spyder stryder, Thanks for your solid response and input in regards to this issue. I was wondering how many miles were on your Spyder RT? Before the Dealer discoved the engine was out of alignment with the final drive assembly? The reason I ask is I don't see any wear marks on the inside of my belt and I have approx. 1,600 miles on mine. What was your belt tension set at after completion?

[Flight Risk]

Me neither.

Me either

[Firefly]

My 2012 also had this vibration, the dealer adjusted the belt several times
without helping much.Then we started checking the belt and the sprockets,
what we found was the engine out of alinement. Like the front was over to
the left to much causing the belt to ride hard up against the outer back edge
of the drive pully.Looking at the outer edge of the belt you could see where it
was wearing on it.He loosend the engine mounting bolts an used a 3/4 round
bar to push through the line up holes ( had to do a little wiggleing on the engine)
so the bar would go through then retighten the bolts. Reset the belt tension,so
far so good in the last 400 miles. Might need to have your spyders checked for this.

spyder stryder

Good info to have. Thanks for sharing. Perhaps this is what is going on with the RT models that are experiencing vibration.

[Littlebadwolf]

I'm running the belt tensioner that one of the sponsors here on the board developed although mine is a RS...It definitely makes the ride a lot smoother...Don't know if this will help the RT but I'd guess it will...Experts can clarify on it's use.

[Ride Master]

Lugging at 5400-6200 rpm...are you serious? lol

I did 800 miles straight on my new RT-- all highway and had no such vibrations.

I now have 3,000 miles on it during the last month and have only noticed it is far smoother than my GS ever was... so for me it's a dream to ride.

Sorry you're having such problems.

While this might not be your issue, I think some are just frankly lugging the engine because they're in the wrong gear.

I really want to meet up with someone with this problem and take one for a spin......

[Illinois Boy]

Obviously if you are running at that RPM you aren't lugging the motor. I would assume you are in 5th by then though.

The vibration people are feeling IS real, and IS related to belt-harmonics that can happen at various speeds... so these people are not nuts.

The length of the belt is fairly long by standards compared to other vehicles using drive-belts. Due to its length, it appears the vibration can be caused by many variables mentioned so far. (i.e., engine alignment, motor vibration, RPM/Gear combinations, uphill torque, downhill slack, wind in combination with the previous, and etc)

I am fortunate that mine rarely vibrates, and when it does it is at higher RPM's -- however I adjust my shifting and it goes away for me. I know that doesn't help if you are cruising at 65+ MPH in fifth...

It would seem all elements that can cause this problem have to be solved for the vibrations to be minimized. That could be one heck of a project... especially if your mechanic isn't the best.

[spyder stryder]

spyder stryder, Thanks for your solid response and input in regards to this issue. I was wondering how many miles were on your Spyder RT? Before the Dealer discoved the engine was out of alignment with the final drive assembly? The reason I ask is I don't see any wear marks on the inside of my belt and I have approx. 1,600 miles on mine. What was your belt tension set at after completion?

Right at 9000 miles,belt was adjusted to the new lower setting that BRP came out with at the 600 mile service.
Then has been reajusted four times since then changing the tension in small amounts (as he stated)to see if he
could hit a happy place for the belt. The last go round i started helping check things out & noticed specks of black
on up toward the center of the belt length on different things under there. Thats when i noticed the outer edge of
belt looked as if it was being ground on or polished off,looking at each side ther was a good bit of difference in
the looks. You can shine a good flash light from the rear straight forward to the drive sprocket an it out of line.
My suggestion was to pull the sides off so he could check the drive pulley ( that didn't go over well) grumble,grumble
but off with the side cover. Huh,this thing is out of alinement,guess i better take care of that. So i asked do you think it
might have damaged anything else such as the pulley,seal or shaft & bearing. He looked the pulley over & said it's ok,as
the other stuff it should not have hurt anything there. The should not is what worries me.

spyder stryder

[A1A]

Thanks spyder stryder, sounds like you had belt vibration at just about every engine rpm?

[Firefly]

Lugging at 5400-6200 rpm...are you serious? lol

I wasn't specifically talking about that RPM range... I just know there's a lot of people that run their Spyder in 5th gear at 45 mph... and ARE lugging it......

[flaggerphil]

I challenge BRP's senior Spyder engineer to get on a new factory RT, leave Quebec and run down to Florida on Interstate 95 at the normal 70-80 mph; look me in the face and tell me this is "NORMAL". Short jaunts, you might be fine, but for extended travel, at speeds of 70-80 (5000-6000 rpm in 5th) it will drive you crazy as it comes and goes. After 50 years of riding, no single cycle, sidecar setup, etc, has had this effect on me. BRP HELP!

Well, here's the thing...I bought my Spyder in St Louis and a week later drove it to Melbourne FL in two days...at 70 to 80 mph...and didn't experience any bad vibration at all. My 2011 RT-AC is one of the smoothest motorcycles I've ever owned and I've been riding since the late '60s, including thumpers, two strokes and v-twins. I put close to 400 highway miles on mine this past weekend...I now have well over 4000 miles on the beast...and I've never experienced this vibration. At all. At any speed and any rpm range. I'm NOT saying others haven't, but it seems to me that the vast majority of riders out there don't have the problem.

As for heat, the only time I've noticed bad heat on my RT is when I've put my foot up on the air damn where a highway peg would go and I wasn't wearing boots. So, basically, I don't put my foot there anymore. And I ride in temps over 90 degrees most every day in the summer. The heat from my Spyder is nothing compared to heat I've felt on air-cooled HD's when riding in the tropics. I used to get far more heat out of my V Star 1300.

The worst problem I've had is the stitching on the seat coming undone. They replaced the first one and it looks like they're going to have to replace the second one. Poor subcontractor qc? I don't know.

Again, I'm not saying other people haven't had problems, it's just hard to relate when my Spyder doesn't have them at all.

[billythekidd]

Well, here's the thing...I bought my Spyder in St Louis and a week later drove it to Melbourne FL in two days...at 70 to 80 mph...and didn't experience any bad vibration at all. My 2011 RT-AC is one of the smoothest motorcycles I've ever owned and I've been riding since the late '60s, including thumpers, two strokes and v-twins. I put close to 400 highway miles on mine this past weekend...I now have well over 4000 miles on the beast...and I've never experienced this vibration. At all. At any speed and any rpm range. I'm NOT saying others haven't, but it seems to me that the vast majority of riders out there don't have the problem.

As for heat, the only time I've noticed bad heat on my RT is when I've put my foot up on the air damn where a highway peg would go and I wasn't wearing boots. So, basically, I don't put my foot there anymore. And I ride in temps over 90 degrees most every day in the summer. The heat from my Spyder is nothing compared to heat I've felt on air-cooled HD's when riding in the tropics. I used to get far more heat out of my V Star 1300.

The worst problem I've had is the stitching on the seat coming undone. They replaced the first one and it looks like they're going to have to replace the second one. Poor subcontractor qc? I don't know.

Again, I'm not saying other people haven't had problems, it's just hard to relate when my Spyder doesn't have them at all.

While I completely understand what you are saying..... I had a 2011 RTS that I put almost 13000 miles on before it had electrical problems, and now have a 2012 Limited that I have about 10000 miles on and neither have had a problem with the seat.... Just saying..... I know some have.... but the majority have not.

If you ever do get the vibration you wil know it. I complained to my dealer about my 2011 and they checked everyting (rod touching the frame and such) and then took it for a ride before adjusting the belt.. They were really supprised at the vibration it produced. Adjusted the belt and all was fine for a bit. I have a little vibration on my 2012 but not nearly like it was on the 2011. If it is an engine alignment issue as was stated that would surely explain why it can be frixed for a time with a belt adjustment

Willy

[prider]

I still think we may have multiple different problems here. Some have stated they're running under 5,000 RPM's when in 4th and 5th....and may be lugging the engine. These Rotax engines like higher RPM's... plain and simple.
--------------

For those that are running in the proper (higher) RPM ranges.. I'm very curious about this problem.

My 2012 RT A&C doesn't vibrate... it's far smoother than my GS was-- and that had the belt tensioner installed.

I wasn't aware that the belt had been updated for the 2012 RT's ??? Anyone have more info on this?

If that's the case.... I'll have to sell my spare belt I've had for a year or so.....

Thus far, my only complaint about the RT belt is the noise during acceleration.....

Just curious keep reading comments about vibrations and higher rpms. What happens to GPM at higher RPMS?

Thanks Tom