carry a pistol?

[steve635]

"It's amazing to me that people really live in such fear.... geesh-- do you guys all check your toothpaste for poison every morning?"

Of course not.....I have people for that!

[steve635]

"Steve, I'm starting to like you more and more... "

Thanks Bob, and by the way the content of that comment patently guarantees that you cannot currently be, or ever have been, female.

[Tierhog]

Oh ya? I've been trying to mount this on my RS for two weeks...VSS keeps kicking in on straight-aways.....ImageUploadedByTapatalk1341952370.388448.jpg

[Firefly]

True. You said "Whatever items they were taking were not worth the life of a young 18 year old - no way - no how.... no matter how much a of a bad person he was." I agree. No money or material things are worth killing for. Way & How: My family's personal safety, lives and well being ARE worth stopping a "bad person" for. Sadly, Bad Persons don't like witnesses or care about our safety or laws. If an 18 year old Bad Person points a gun at me or mine with the intent to do harm, they have forfeited the right to cry "No fair. You have a gun too."

As for me not being in the situations I mentioned, does that mean if the statistic isn't about ME personally, it isn't real? If the crime is committed against my next door neighbor, then it doesn't count? In what universe is that even logical? And as it so happens, I actually have been robbed at gun point. So, yes, I do get to be a REAL statistic when I grow up. What was your point again?

I don't carry a gun out of fear. I carry it as a preventive measure. Yes, the odds of violent crime threatening me and mine are slim, but so is crashing my bike, and yet... I wear a helmet. Or pay life insurance for the last several decades, even though the odds of me dying (in my younger years) was microscopic. In case I do, my family is protected. The gun is not out of fear, but for the ability to protect my family in the off hand (and steadily increasing) chance that violence does intrude into my life (again).

In the real world: In NC, according to FBI statistics, (which I assume you will give me as a valid source) there is 3.6% chance my wife or I will experience a violent crime, murder, forcible rape, or aggravated assault (IN A GIVEN YEAR) [39,885 REPORTED crimes divided by a population of 2.2 million]. This does not include: robbery, property crime, burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, or arson, because... as you say, "not worth the life of.. blah blah blah". If included, those crimes increases the chances that one of us will be the victim of one of these crimes to 39.2%. [433,886 instances divided by a population of 2.2 million x the two of us.. or does she not count either, because it isn't me?]

Here is a point of my own: you seem to be under the impression that I (and others) are trying to change your point of view on the right to carry a concealed weapon. I'm not. I was explaining that I do because crime isn't isolated anymore and happens to good people in all locations. Some people don't carry out of fear, they carry to "inoculate" themselves (and reduce) against the admittedly small odds that bad things will happen to them or their families. They are not relying on the government (minutes way... I love that!) to protect them, but are empowering themselves to do so.

You clearly are never going to carry a weapon and I am okay with that. I have no desire to influence you one way or the other. Your mind is made up. Guns:Evil. Cool. We get it. You don't want a gun.

Again.... you're putting words into my mouth I never said. When did I ever say, or even IMPLY that Guns were Evil ? I didn't. I don't think guns are bad or evil. They are only bad or evil in the hands of the wrong people... and too many of the wrong people own them in my personal opinion.

The way you look at the crime statistics is... well... interesting to say the least. To just divide the number of violent crimes by the population and think those are your chances of being involved in such a crime is a stretch... there are far more variables. Many that are involved in such crimes as shootings (think gang and drug related shootings for example) put themselves into such harmful situations. To be honest with the numbers, you should factor those situations OUT of your chances -- unless you belong to a gang or deal drugs.

Certainly the crime is REAL if it's your neighbor... but that isn't what we're talking about.... we're talking about YOU riding YOUR gun on YOUR Spyder. Everyone (including me) has stories of family and friends that had such and such happen to them. I had a triple murder years ago not a 1/2 mile from me (drug related BTW)... but it wasn't ME... and I'm talking about MY chances (or yours) of such an event happening to us... and the point is that with all those that carry out here... it appears that very few (if any) have had a need to use their CCW... and since the weapon is CONCEALED.. you really can't claim it as a crime deterrent.... the bad guys don't know you're carrying if it's concealed.

It's a comfort for you against the bad guys.. no problem... I just don't need such comfort.

Carry (hahaha) on.........

[BajaRon]

On the one hand, amazing, on the other, quite predictable. At least part of the disagreement is due to people having a different 'Fact Set'.

Of course there are always those who think guns are evil and the discussion ends there.

Tyrants and evil dictators have taken advantage of those who are willing to give up their right to own weapons of self defense throughout history. Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini are examples who carefully manipulated the anti-self defense concept, removing weapons from the hands of the common people and promising safety to all before implementing their version of Eutopia. Things just went smoother for them that way.

It may be a cliche but the statement; "If gun ownership is made a crime, then only criminals will own guns" is very true. Just look at Mexico or many other nations around the world today. And if you think it can't happen here, ask the Jews of Germany, and they are just one example.

The fact remains that when law abiding citizens are allowed to own and carry firearms, everyone is safer. There are those that don't like this fact and some who refuse to acknowledge it. But it has been repeated over many times.

It is a classic division between the conservative and liberal mind set, a reliable generalization that holds true, though exceptions probably exist.

The conservative may not personally feel the need to own or carry a firearm, but they are perfectly fine with, and support the right of other to do so.

A liberal who does not want to own or carry a firearm feels the need to make sure no one else does either.

[Firefly]

I live near there. The article is totally true!~ and it just GALLS liberals out the whazoo!....smoky

Funny.. I've always considered the 2nd Amendment to be one of the most liberal Amendments we have (you do your thing... I'll do mine, you don't bug me, I won't bug you, etc. is liberal btw).

As previously stated... the 'law' has exemptions.... so it's really not the law that everyone must own a gun if anyone can be exempt from it.

[Arr MiHardies]

I own, but don't carry, but in recent years have been considering it. I sleep with a gun and (don't laugh) a razor sharp katana next to me. The gun was inherited, but works well, and I have practiced with it. And the katana, well, ive had some martial arts training, but its more for intimidation than anything.

I do have family that was a victim of a violent crime. If I had to kill to prevent that from happening to them again, I would. In a heartbeat. In my eyes, the minute you infringe upon my or my loved ones right to life, yours is forfeit.

Have a nice day, and always wear your helmet. ;D

[Firefly]

A liberal who does not want to own or carry a firearm feels the need to make sure no one else does either.

Ron.. that is just not true......

All 4 of us on my recent trip (myself and 3 HD buddies) are LIBERALS... all of whom support the 2nd Amendment (which is liberal in nature btw).. and two of them carried on the trip.

But thanks for speaking for us......

[Tierhog]

It's amazing to me that people really live in such fear.... geesh-- do you guys all check your toothpaste for poison every morning?

I leave my house unlocked... keys in my cars and bike..... I just don't live in such fear.....[/QUOTE]



Live in my town. Forbes placed us dead last in most desired. Modesto, Ca (Murder, Meth, and Auto theft). Home invasions, stabbings, and shootings are the reality here and in Stockton. If that's not enough, drive to San Jose or Oakland. You won't even get a jug of milk without and Uzi

I'm not afraid of death, I simply don't want to witness my wife gang raped in my house while my kids and I are at gun point by a bunch of gangsters, only to murdered afterwards. Think it doesn't happen? WRONG (google Modesto bee articles)

The AB 109 initiative let most of the felons out due to overcrowding. Guess where? On the street, thats where.

Has my house been burged? Yes Sir.

It sounds like you have a nice little town. Enjoy it. Some of us aren't that fortunate.

[Arr MiHardies]

I own, but don't carry, but in recent years have been considering it. I sleep with a gun and (don't laugh) a razor sharp katana next to me. The gun was inherited, but works well, and I have practiced with it. And the katana, well, ive had some martial arts training, but its more for intimidation than anything.

I do have family that was a victim of a violent crime. If I had to kill to prevent that from happening to them again, I would. In a heartbeat. In my eyes, the minute you infringe upon my or my loved ones right to life, yours is forfeit.

Have a nice day, and always wear your helmet. ;D

I should also mention, this is my opinion despite living in Henderson, NV, the second safest place to live in the US according to Forbes.

[SpyderLady]

Yes, I have a CWP...carry it and my Sig 380. I was brought up around guns, go to the range often and just hope and pray I am never in a situation to use it. But if I am, I am prepared. Yes I am a female and like the comfort I have knowing I am a pistol packin MaMa.

[Firefly]

Yes, I have a CWP...carry it and my Sig 380. I was brought up around guns, go to the range often and just hope and pray I am never in a situation to use it. But if I am, I am prepared. Yes I am a female and like the comfort I have knowing I am a pistol packin MaMa.

Okay--- NOW I'm afraid....

[zrc]

I should also mention, this is my opinion despite living in Henderson, NV, the second safest place to live in the US according to Forbes.

Go Henderson! (I work for Olin Chemicals, we have a facility in Henderson)

[steve635]

"It's amazing to me that people really live in such fear.... geesh-- do you guys all check your toothpaste for poison every morning?"

By this same logic, wouldn't your wearing a helmet all the time indicate you are constantly living in fear of an accident?

And the 2nd amendment is indeed liberal in the traditional sense, but liberal (like gay or teabag) has picked up alternative meanings over the years.

[BajaRon]

Ron.. that is just not true......

All 4 of us on my recent trip (myself and 3 HD buddies) are LIBERALS... all of whom support the 2nd Amendment (which is liberal in nature btw).. and two of them carried on the trip.

But thanks for speaking for us......

Of course there are exceptions to every generalization. But I imagine most people understand that support for banning personal ownership of weapons comes generally from a liberal belief system. Certainly no one here is trying to make a case that banning gun ownership is a conservative position, (though I acknowledge there are some who do not fit into either category.

I would suggest that 'Birds of a feather' may apply to who you ride with. I know it does me (come to think of it, Lamont is the only one who will ride with me - but this is another subject). So 4 for 4 may not be a ligitimate cross section of reference, especially when considereing the population of America.

Not trying to speak for anyone. Just trying to categorize the facts in, probably, a vain attempt to keep the discussion reality based. It is an important subject and worth the effort to get it right.

It is an emotional issue, but emotion won't get us where we need to be.

I am not singling out any one post or person in my comments. It is enough to let every person stand where they choose.

Facts are not relative, opinions are.

[flybuddy]

Worthwhile to carry in South Florida. If you get stuck on the side of some roads you might have a 4 legged scaly visitor with large teeth.

[Firefly]

Of course there are exceptions to every generalization. But I imagine most people understand that support for banning personal ownership of weapons comes generally from a liberal belief system. Certainly no one here is trying to make a case that banning gun ownership is a conservative position, (though I acknowledge there are some who do not fit into either category.

I would suggest that 'Birds of a feather' may apply to who you ride with. I know it does me (come to think of it, Lamont is the only one who will ride with me - but this is another subject). So 4 for 4 may not be a ligitimate cross section of reference, especially when considereing the population of America.

Not trying to speak for anyone. Just trying to categorize the facts in, probably, a vain attempt to keep the discussion reality based. It is an important subject and worth the effort to get it right.

It is an emotional issue, but emotion won't get us where we need to be.

I am not singling out any one post or person in my comments. It is enough to let every person stand where they choose.

Facts are not relative, opinions are.

The recent twisting of the term 'liberal' over the last 20 years or so is what has most confused. For whatever reason it has become some 'dirty' word. Makes no sense to me!

I relate being liberal to each of us basically minding our own business and doing our own thing... as long as we don't infringe on each others rights and freedoms:

"Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry."

"Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded."

This is the kind of liberal I'm referring to.... much like our founding fathers were... for individual freedoms.. which is why I see the 2nd Amendment as very liberal indeed. It's not my cup of tea--- but I'm fine if it's yours.

[spyder3]

Ron.. that is just not true......

All 4 of us on my recent trip (myself and 3 HD buddies) are LIBERALS... all of whom support the 2nd Amendment (which is liberal in nature btw).. and two of them carried on the trip.

But thanks for speaking for us......

What is the definition of "is"? Are you sure you weren't a speech writer for Bill Clinton? Seriously dude, you have a bazaar answer for everything and the longer the conversation goes on, the more bazaar you get. Good thread though!!

[Shaku]

Interesting that this topic would come up today. I live in a subdivision with 10 acre minimum lots. So, it's rural.
The lady two doors down (about 1,500 yds) came by yesterday and asked about an incident the nite before where somebody came pounding on her door at 2:30AM. She called the Sheriff's Office and it took over 2 hours for an officer to show up. Her husband is a long haul trucker and was out of town. I told her I would be on the lookout. I keep night vision googles handy and a variety of weapons. I've had two generators, a chain saw and other stuff taken from a locked garage. Maddening but not enough to have me running for a sniper rifle. BUT... if someone did bad stuff to my cats or my wife, Arnold would have to get out of the way. On the Spyder, I don't worry about it much. I don't think the average thief could figure out which way to push it. They'd never get it started. I can't even start it half the time. When I'm on it, few are fast enough to keep up with me.

[Jeriatric]

Interesting that this topic would come up today. I live in a subdivision with 10 acre minimum lots. So, it's rural.
The lady two doors down (about 1,500 yds) came by yesterday and asked about an incident the nite before where somebody came pounding on her door at 2:30AM. She called the Sheriff's Office and it took over 2 hours for an officer to show up. Her husband is a long haul trucker and was out of town. I told her I would be on the lookout. I keep night vision googles handy and a variety of weapons. I've had two generators, a chain saw and other stuff taken from a locked garage. Maddening but not enough to have me running for a sniper rifle. BUT... if someone did bad stuff to my cats or my wife, Arnold would have to get out of the way. On the Spyder, I don't worry about it much. I don't think the average thief could figure out which way to push it. They'd never get it started. I can't even start it half the time. When I'm on it, few are fast enough to keep up with me.

Classic

[dancogan]

...
A liberal who does not want to own or carry a firearm feels the need to make sure no one else does either.

Just where does BS like this come from?

[Firefly]

What is the definition of "is"? Are you sure you weren't a speech writer for Bill Clinton? Seriously dude, you have a bazaar answer for everything and the longer the conversation goes on, the more bazaar you get. Good thread though!!

Whatever bud-- my answers have been consistent and most could easily follow what I've said. Sorry you got confused. Let me simplify it for you:
You want to carry-- fine. I choose not to.

Simple as that.

Didn't vote for Clinton-- but now realize how great of a job he did.

[Tierhog]

Yes, I have a CWP...carry it and my Sig 380. I was brought up around guns, go to the range often and just hope and pray I am never in a situation to use it. But if I am, I am prepared. Yes I am a female and like the comfort I have knowing I am a pistol packin MaMa.

Atta girl..... I've got your 6

[bruiser]

And how many times has any such legislation been proposed, passed or even tabled by any party in the past 40 years?

stop.

I'll make it easy for you.

The Brady Bill which was a reaction to the attempted assassination of a sitting US President (Ronald Reagan, R if I remember correctly) has been the only successful legislation in the past 40 years.

Yes, it was my favorite president. Mr. Brady was collatteral damage from that attempt. Two good men were nearly killed that day.

[Tierhog]

And I have no use for politicians....

Any of them. They all suck.