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  1. #326
    Active Member ShortCake's Avatar
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    Default NEWBIE AND THANKFUL

    What an awesome thread! I have yet to even look at any other posts/threads and have read this all the way through from the beginning.

    I am totally new to Spyders although being active on 2-wheels for about 12 years now. I'm a youngin' only in my mid 40's but due to a nagging knee issue, felt it was time to get more serious about safety and the chances of going down. I am in the process of getting a brand new leftover 2015 RT S SE6 (still in the warehouse and boxed) $5630 under suggested retail. Putting a lot down so the monthly payments are less damaging. I also invested in getting the additional 3 yr extended warranty (especially with all of the electronics and computer gadgets used in these machines).

    My only question is, after reading most of the info in this thread, I remember reading something about what gears you should be in for certain mph. I did read about the lower RPM's when to shift for the RT 1330 models, but, was anything said about which gear is best for which speeds? Previously stated was that 4th gear is good for cruising anywhere from 45mph up to 60 or even 65mph. Is that still the same or different since new info has been added about the 1330's?

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShortCake View Post

    ...was anything said about which gear is best for which speeds? Previously stated was that 4th gear is good for cruising anywhere from 45mph up to 60 or even 65mph. Is that still the same or different since new info has been added about the 1330's?
    It is explained in detail within the text that is specific to the 1330 engine if you re-read just that section (very first post).

    In short however, for the 1330's, the important thing to remember is when to shift out of first to second. It should be at or above 2500 rpm's. Many shift out of first at 3000 rpm's or slightly higher.

    The second thing to remember is that you do not need to use all the gears (6 of them) all the time. In other words, if you are just cruising around town you might never use 5th or 6th gear.

    Since you have ridden motorcycles, you know when an engine sounds like it needs to be shifted up or down. The same applies here. The 1330 machines are not as sensitive to its shifting points as the 900 series engines were.

    The shifting issue mostly came about because of the 998 engines' low torque at low rpm's. The torque-range of the 900 series engines is at 5,000+ rpm's -- required shifting at higher rpm's (5,000+) and basically staying within that range.

    Too many owners were shifting their 998 engines too early and running them at too low of rpm's. Some were also shifting to 5th gear and cruising around town all day in 5th gear. That is torture on the 900 series machines. Apparently, American's love low rpm machines and many have a hard time getting used to a higher rpm engine. Thus, BRP came up with the 1330 engine to satisfy those who are not comfortable with a high rpm engine. (Personally, I love the 900 series engine.)

    Hope this helps.

    Enjoy your ride, and ride safe, often, and aware.

    Illinois Boy

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  3. #328
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    Default Tires

    I had read this post before picking up a 2010 RT with 4,800 miles on it. Great info and I followed a lot of it. The RT had just went thru a $700 plus annual inspection. It looked like new including the tires which showed very little wear. The bike had not been ridden in the last year plus, or if so very minimal. You can look at my post "wild ride" and see what happened to me 20 minute's after leaving sellers home on interstate I-25. Its at the dealer now and is considered a catastrophic failure. looks like 5-6 thousand repair. No one is going to be able to really say what happened for sure but common sense says 6 year old tires sitting for quite some time equals a good chance for a blow out (i.e. Possible Dry Rot). Not trying to create fear but I don't want anyone going thru what I did for it truly was a near death experience. Just my thought !!

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan65 View Post
    6 year old tires sitting for quite some time equals a good chance for a blow out
    There is generally a rule about tires... do not use tires after 6 years -- period. It is also important one looks at new tires for their manufacture date. While it is rare, a dealer could sell you news tires that are six-years old. The advice... do not buy them.

    Glad to hear you are okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoJive View Post
    I just ordered the belt guard myself. I live on about a 1/2 mile of gravel/dirt road, and I guess I have been lucky and had no issues in the couple weeks I have owned my . I'm hoping the belt guard works well, as I don't know anything else to do besides slow down.

    BTW, this is an awesome thread.

    Jive
    Where did u get guard, I'm new to Spyder and live on gravel road
    thanks

  6. #331
    Active Member NoJive's Avatar
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    http://spyderpops.com/the-missing-be...pt-2014-15-rt/

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  7. #332
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    Default Engine wear

    This thread has been going for a few years. Much was claimed in the earlier years.

    Now that some time has passed, from those that have contributed in the past, or others, is there any reason to add to, take back or modify the views expressed?


    Not criticizing the thread, I think it's very good and absolutely what Forums should be about, but I have a slight problem with the statement often made summerized as "rev it high, it is good for the engine (and stops belt vibration)". The engine is not an animal, it is made of parts rubbing and pushing together, the faster it runs the greater these factors and wear increases. Every second an engine runs it is wearing out. Other than destructive vibrations, or a weak oil pump is there a reason to run any engine fast without increasing wear albeit a small wear increase.

    So, is there any evidence that the 998 engine wears out quicker running it slow (but at reasonable, often felt natural, shift points)?. Alternatively what evidence of longevity (miles) is there with those that run these at the higher stated revs.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosebelle View Post
    This thread has been going for a few years. Much was claimed in the earlier years.

    Now that some time has passed, from those that have contributed in the past, or others, is there any reason to add to, take back or modify the views expressed?


    Not criticizing the thread, I think it's very good and absolutely what Forums should be about, but I have a slight problem with the statement often made summerized as "rev it high, it is good for the engine (and stops belt vibration)". The engine is not an animal, it is made of parts rubbing and pushing together, the faster it runs the greater these factors and wear increases. Every second an engine runs it is wearing out. Other than destructive vibrations, or a weak oil pump is there a reason to run any engine fast without increasing wear albeit a small wear increase.

    So, is there any evidence that the 998 engine wears out quicker running it slow (but at reasonable, often felt natural, shift points)?. Alternatively what evidence of longevity (miles) is there with those that run these at the higher stated revs.?
    The OP is updated as things change. The current version is as of June 27, 2016. So a new member doesn't have to read through all the pages of advice to get the best info.

    However, I just did a quick scan of that post and didn't notice anything specific to the F3 model, like shifting RPMs, etc. So maybe it needs to be revisited after all.
    PrairieSpyder (Patti)

  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieSpyder View Post
    The OP is updated as things change. The current version is as of June 27, 2016. So a new member doesn't have to read through all the pages of advice to get the best info.

    However, I just did a quick scan of that post and didn't notice anything specific to the F3 model, like shifting RPMs, etc. So maybe it needs to be revisited after all.
    No reference directly to the F3; but rather the 1330 engine itself. It is mentioned and covered.

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  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosebelle View Post
    This thread has been going for a few years. Much was claimed in the earlier years.

    Now that some time has passed, from those that have contributed in the past, or others, is there any reason to add to, take back or modify the views expressed?


    Not criticizing the thread, I think it's very good and absolutely what Forums should be about, but I have a slight problem with the statement often made summerized as "rev it high, it is good for the engine (and stops belt vibration)". The engine is not an animal, it is made of parts rubbing and pushing together, the faster it runs the greater these factors and wear increases. Every second an engine runs it is wearing out. Other than destructive vibrations, or a weak oil pump is there a reason to run any engine fast without increasing wear albeit a small wear increase.

    So, is there any evidence that the 998 engine wears out quicker running it slow (but at reasonable, often felt natural, shift points)?. Alternatively what evidence of longevity (miles) is there with those that run these at the higher stated revs.?
    No offense but this has been parsed, covered, uncovered, cooked, stewed, and broiled. This info on the two different engines has been verified through several years practical experience and data by many experienced riders. If you have a 998 engine, then you may want to follow the advice; but that's entirely up to you. You are not the first who wants to argue with it.

    If you have a 1330, then it is far less complicated and that info is in there as well.

    Ride safe...

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  11. #336
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosebelle View Post
    So, is there any evidence that the 998 engine wears out quicker running it slow (but at reasonable, often felt natural, shift points)?. Alternatively what evidence of longevity (miles) is there with those that run these at the higher stated revs.?
    Maybe you're not aware of it yet, but when you take your Spyder in for servicing the technician connects it up the BUDs computer. One of the readouts is a histogram of engine speed in increments of 2000 rpm for the 998. If you have the 998 engine, and have a high percentage of operating time in the 2000 to 4000 rpm range, the technician may well chew your butt. BRP wants owners to spend something like 80% and more time at rpms above 4000. That's the way the engine is built. Keep in mind the pedigree of the Rotax includes ultra light aircraft. You don't want slow turning engines on them!

    2014 Copper RTS

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  12. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinois Boy View Post
    No reference directly to the F3; but rather the 1330 engine itself. It is mentioned and covered.
    That's true. But the F3T and F3L (don't know about the base F3 or F3S) have a bigger rear sprocket and the shifting points are different than for the 1330 in an RT.
    PrairieSpyder (Patti)

  13. #338
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Further to what IdahoMtnspyder wrote, there isn't any evidence that keeping your revs up will cause premature wear (& growing numbers of Spyders doing this are reliably reaching high mileage for bikes too) but there IS evidence that ignoring that advice can cause premature wear requiring expensive repairs!!

    So, if you ride a V-twin Spyder, ignore the rev recommendations at your peril & potential cost!!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 08-20-2016 at 05:52 PM.

  14. #339
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    Default Failures by revving engine too low

    I'm not ignoring this to my peril. What is the type of failure related to too much time at low revs? I am reading anecdotal evidence not proper science. I do realise this topic has been discussed from the moon and back, but I cannot find say e.g. this 998 has spent 80% of its time at 2000rpm, 5% at 3000, 5% at 4000 .....and it's crankshaft is bent, the piston have melted.....etc.; as opposed to this engine has spent 80% at 5000 rpms.....etc and the engine is glowing with health.(or whatever happens). Data?

    As far as the relationship to aircraft motors, is this engine used in any aircraft, and if so at what revs does it cruise on? I suspect not and even less so at peak HP at what...8000rpm?.

    My experience in aviation is that engines are run at very low outputs to what the engine could be hotted up to do. Continental and Lycomming motors in Cessnas run at 2700 rpm. Now I do realise that Rotax do cruise higher RPMs than that; but the point is less rpms means less stress means reliability.

    I am not arguing that the 998 was designed to rev high to get max power but about it's longevity if run this high, and what doesn't fail that claims to fail if running at lower revs. What wears out prematurely? Data please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosebelle View Post
    I'm not ignoring this to my peril. What is the type of failure related to too much time at low revs? I am reading anecdotal evidence not proper science. I do realise this topic has been discussed from the moon and back, but I cannot find say e.g. this 998 has spent 80% of its time at 2000rpm, 5% at 3000, 5% at 4000 .....and it's crankshaft is bent, the piston have melted.....etc.; as opposed to this engine has spent 80% at 5000 rpms.....etc and the engine is glowing with health.(or whatever happens). Data?

    I am not arguing that the 998 was designed to rev high to get max power but about it's longevity if run this high, and what doesn't fail that claims to fail if running at lower revs. What wears out prematurely? Data please.
    You have valid questions.

    First, all engines will have wear, as you know; and certainly there are various types of wear on an engine depending on how it is run, or how it is operated under load.

    The recommendations for the higher rpm's on the 998 engine is primarily due to its underwhelming power at lower rpm's.

    However, if you have a paddle-shifter, the clutch does not fully lock (engage) until 3200 (+/- 200) rpm's. Running a Spyder in any range where it is not fully-locked causes wear due to the clutch slipping. Over a long period of time, slippage will cause excessive wear on the clutch; if not clutch failure. (An example of clutch failure was provided by a member who refused to run his Spyder as suggested, and he paid the price of having to replace his clutch.)

    So you have a couple issues facing you if you have both the 998 and a paddle-shifter.

    Now, to further help explain the information provided in the first thread relates to the power-band of the 998 engine (not the 1330). As you know, if an engine is run consistently in a range below or above its power band, the engine is not working at it optimum efficiency -- which translates to increased stress (load) on all of the engines components exposed to this load.

    An example would be if you were riding a 10-speed bike up a hill in 10th gear. Your body will be considerably more stressed from the workout from doing so; versus if you were to have used a lower-gear (1st for instance). If you were to have used first gear to climb the same hill, you would have peddled considerably more times (higher revs); however it would have also been considerably easier (less stress) in first gear versus 10th. I believe you get the point. It is similar to an engine.

    In addition: the added load on a Spyder's drive-train, when running a 998 engine below its power band, has been noted many times with people having to replace their primary drive bearings and other components. While an engine's speed (rpm) can cause wear and heat, the load factors are an important factor in drive-train failure.
    Refer to this info for more detail of a study on aircraft engines: http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~smuftu/docs...0Espinosa).pdf

    When operating any engine below it power band exposes the engine and its drive-train to potential excessive load; which over time can cause failure of components receiving the load.

    Lastly, anyone who is a expert rider/driver/pilot will tell you it is best to maintain the vehicle at all times within it optimum range of power and torque for safety and control reasons. More accidents happen when a vehicle is in too low or high of a gear for a specific situation requiring power to avoid it.

    You had great questions; and I hope this helped some.

    Ride safe...
    Last edited by Illinois Boy; 08-21-2016 at 07:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan65 View Post
    I had read this post before picking up a 2010 RT with 4,800 miles on it. Great info and I followed a lot of it. The RT had just went thru a $700 plus annual inspection. It looked like new including the tires which showed very little wear. The bike had not been ridden in the last year plus, or if so very minimal. You can look at my post "wild ride" and see what happened to me 20 minute's after leaving sellers home on interstate I-25. Its at the dealer now and is considered a catastrophic failure. looks like 5-6 thousand repair. No one is going to be able to really say what happened for sure but common sense says 6 year old tires sitting for quite some time equals a good chance for a blow out (i.e. Possible Dry Rot). Not trying to create fear but I don't want anyone going thru what I did for it truly was a near death experience. Just my thought !!
    I can not find your wild ride post.?.?
    Can you post link to it.
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinois Boy View Post
    You have valid questions.

    First, all engines will have wear, as you know; and certainly there are various types of wear on an engine depending on how it is run, or how it is operated under load.

    The recommendations for the higher rpm's on the 998 engine is primarily due to its underwhelming power at lower rpm's.

    However, if you have a paddle-shifter, the clutch does not fully lock (engage) until 3200 (+/- 200) rpm's. Running a Spyder in any range where it is not fully-locked causes wear due to the clutch slipping. Over a long period of time, slippage will cause excessive wear on the clutch; if not clutch failure. (An example of clutch failure was provided by a member who refused to run his Spyder as suggested, and he paid the price of having to replace his clutch.)

    So you have a couple issues facing you if you have both the 998 and a paddle-shifter.

    Now, to further help explain the information provided in the first thread relates to the power-band of the 998 engine (not the 1330). As you know, if an engine is run consistently in a range below or above its power band, the engine is not working at it optimum efficiency -- which translates to increased stress (load) on all of the engines components exposed to this load.

    An example would be if you were riding a 10-speed bike up a hill in 10th gear. Your body will be considerably more stressed from the workout from doing so; versus if you were to have used a lower-gear (1st for instance). If you were to have used first gear to climb the same hill, you would have peddled considerably more times (higher revs); however it would have also been considerably easier (less stress) in first gear versus 10th. I believe you get the point. It is similar to an engine.

    In addition: the added load on a Spyder's drive-train, when running a 998 engine below its power band, has been noted many times with people having to replace their primary drive bearings and other components. While an engine's speed (rpm) can cause wear and heat, the load factors are an important factor in drive-train failure.
    Refer to this info for more detail of a study on aircraft engines: http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~smuftu/docs...0Espinosa).pdf

    When operating any engine below it power band exposes the engine and its drive-train to potential excessive load; which over time can cause failure of components receiving the load.

    Lastly, anyone who is a expert rider/driver/pilot will tell you it is best to maintain the vehicle at all times within it optimum range of power and torque for safety and control reasons. More accidents happen when a vehicle is in too low or high of a gear for a specific situation requiring power to avoid it.

    You had great questions; and I hope this helped some.

    Ride safe...
    Illinios Boy thanks for the effort in replying and supplying the bearing and spline info re aircraft engines.

    I know the clutch issue with SE5 998 motors, and now I know of primary drive bearing failure and I take it wear failure within the gear box?

    This all leads me to believe that the engine was not adequately designed for use with the Spyder as I don't think that engine in the Aprilla had any of those issues. It is hard to understand why at low power (particularly noted as low torque) and low revolutions that people take that as creating greater stress within the engine. I would have also thought big end bearing failure would occur before crankshaft bearing failure, if that was the case.

    I suspect that (also from reading the article) the issue can only be of poor oiling of those bearings at low revs, causing greater friction heat build up that is not efficiently dissipated.

    I suspect the drive train failures (I don't know yet which components they might be), are not only due to insufficient lubrication and heat dissipation, but due to weak strength. Yes we do understand that revving higher in a geared up situation distributes the load (say on gears) over more teeth because of the greater ratio. But we are transmitting the maximum torque through this drivetrain in doing so.

    On that point of ratios why would you not make the top gear correspond to top speed allowed or what would reasonably be cruise speed. Highway speed does vary over the world, I am limited in my country to 110km (65mph) but more of 100km (60mph) and maybe I am a little unreasonable to expect top gear (5 on 998) should be the gear selected to cruise all day on. What I am saying it makes more sense to use all these gears, unless the 998 has extremely good strong low range gears clearly contradicting my proposition that they have not. Many vehicles, cars and bikes have traditionally low gear failures due to excessive use of these gears that they were not designed for.

    It is strange to me why people believe there is something special about how we should use of the Spyder engine, not done anywhere else in the world of motors (possible overexaggeration by me!); when it can IMO be because a shear lack of adequate design.

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    The post was/is merely a suggestion from many who have years (since the Spyder inception), and miles of experience with the 998 Spyder. Your view would be a minority view. However, there are some who simply cannot bring themselves to run any engine at a higher rpm no matter what. Again, that is their choice.

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    Rosebelle, this 'driving in the optimum rev range' thing isn't unique to Spyders with the 998 motor; you might benefit from spending time reading 4WD forums in Aus, or talking to truckers, heavy transport drivers, earthmover operators, & even taxi drivers - most of whom who have learnt that instead of dropping into your highest gear as soon as you get moving & ignore the lugging engine, you really do need to try to run your engine at its most effective & efficient REVS for the majority of the time & simply use the gear selection to allow you to drive at the road speed you desire atm!! It doesn't matter what the engine is, that's how you get the best overall fuel economy in the real world rather than when on an economy run under un-realistic conditions; and that's how you minimise your maintenance & repair costs too!! Modern vehicles rarely suffer too much mechanically from being driven in their lower gears instead of overdrive, altho that may have been an issue some decades back, it isn't nowadays, with modern manufacturing & tolerances, etc. In fact, many modern auto's even refuse to select their highest gears until specific speed & throttle load conditions are met, so they almost always run in their lower gears! But still, the number of newbie operators who either destroy engines, gearboxes, &/or clutches thru just picking their highest gear too early might astound you; & that IS in these automotive industries that make a big deal of teaching their new operators to always run/drive in the efficient REV range for the engine rather than just going for the high gears straight away & then letting the engine lug along below its efficient minimum, or for that matter, running the engine out beyond its greatest efficiency at the top end!!

    Even most recreational 4Wheelers have managed to learn this; engines have an efficient rev range, & driving under or over that 'best for power, torque, & fuel economy' rev range just to stay in their 'overdrive' gear too much will cost in the long run - maybe largely in excess fuel costs, (yes, they've learnt the hard way that running in a high gear too much & lugging the engine as a result only wastes fuel!) but often also in maintenance & repair costs as well as in their vehicle's long term reliability, especially for their clutches & over-drive gears!! In reality, most Vehicle manufacturers give us gears because it's too hard for them to develop an engine that runs at its most efficient across its entire rev range, or to develop an engine that will deliver power & economy across the entire speed range that the users want or desire from the vehicle!! The only vehicle manufacturer that's managed to get around those problems that I'm aware of is Tesla, & guess what?? Their vehicles run engines that are always at their most efficient so they don't have any other gear choices at all!! You either go forwards, backwards, or stop! But they can drive as fast or as slow as the operator wants (weeeellll, I hope you get the drift! )

    How do you think truck engines & gearboxes manage to reliably reach the millions of kms they do between major overhauls? It sure ain't thru lugging their engines along along at 600 rpm & effectively idling with 15th gear selected behind an engine that's designed to run at it's most efficient between 1200 & 2400 rpm, nor is it thru spending most of their time running in their highest gear 'cos it's more economical to get it into their top cruising gear quickly' - it just isn't economical or viable to do that when you are driving in the real world! Conditions & posted speed limits don't always permit that, so they run their engines in the engine's most efficient REV RANGE, & select whatever gear will give them the ability to move efficiently & economically at the road speed they currently want - so for the vast majority of their driving, they aren't going to be in their highest gear! And in the long term, doing this pays off handsomely in reduced fuel bills, reduced maintenance costs, and reduced repair costs!

    Some of us have learnt the hard way that running in the engine's efficient rev range rather than dumping it into top as soon as we are moving actually works with our V-twin Spyders, & some of us have learnt that it isn't always necessary to repeat others' mistakes to learn the very same lessons.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 08-23-2016 at 06:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinois Boy View Post
    Not maintaining higher RPM's and riding the brake seem to be two of the most consistent bad-habits I have read about (here and other places).

    Again, it is arbitrary, but I shift to 2nd gear based on the speedo being no lower than 22 MPH, but mostly nearer 28 MPH. From there I do not shift (typically) until I see the RPM's above 4800 -- and typically above 5,000.

    In doing so, I do not have to roll-back the throttle at all (as I did prior to running at higher RPM's). The trans just slips into the next gear very smoothly and without much, if any, sound ever.

    I will stay in 4th gear up to around 63 / 65 MPH if cruising-along. That puts the RPM's at around 5,500 or so. In that gear at that RPM, the motor's vibrations seem to melt away and it purrs smoothly. (I promise, it took me some time to get used to it -- especially when switching back-n-forth between my HD Ultra-Classic. I am now quite comfortable with high RPM's now.)

    While I am not a mechanic, I have been told by several that running the Spyder at low RPM's can eventually cause too much stress, and possible failure in the main-bearings -- something you do not want to pay the bill to have fixed. Cannot vouch for that info though -- but that type of problem is common on snowmobiles that are consistently over-loaded and ran hard from a stop. (Too much torque on the drivetrain so I am told.)

    I never had a problem with riding brakes on any vehicle I operate -- so I have not had any experience -- however I hear where others are having all kinds of problems with their Spyders when they do so. Apparently the "nanny" doesn't know if you want to go or stop. Makes sense because riding a brake while moving forward doesn't.
    Ridden two wheels for 40 years, current 2 wheeler Kawasaki GPZ900R and Victory Vegas, world's apart but the Spyder is a whole new Universe!
    After reading the above on revving I've marked the tach at 5000 and trying to stay above that.
    It feels manic and like an old RD350 2-stroke riding like that, just rode up twisty Springbrook mountain and then Beechmont mountain and stopped at the general store and I'm exhausted!.... Gotta be 100% on the ball, I've got the handlebar action and weight shift happening. Picking lines into corners that keep me in my lane....and it's hard work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Rosebelle, this 'driving in the optimum rev range' thing isn't unique to Spyders with the 998 motor; you might benefit from spending time reading 4WD forums in Aus, or talking to truckers, heavy transport drivers, earthmover operators, & even taxi drivers - most of whom who have learnt that instead of dropping into your highest gear as soon as you get moving & ignore the lugging engine, you really do need to try to run your engine at its most effective & efficient REVS for the majority of the time & simply use the gear selection to allow you to drive at the road speed you desire atm!! It doesn't matter what the engine is, that's how you get the best overall fuel economy in the real world rather than when on an economy run under un-realistic conditions; and that's how you minimise your maintenance & repair costs too!! Modern vehicles rarely suffer too much mechanically from being driven in their lower gears instead of overdrive, altho that may have been an issue some decades back, it isn't nowadays, with modern manufacturing & tolerances, etc. In fact, many modern auto's even refuse to select their highest gears until specific speed & throttle load conditions are met, so they almost always run in their lower gears! But still, the number of newbie operators who either destroy engines, gearboxes, &/or clutches thru just picking their highest gear too early might astound you; & that IS in these automotive industries that make a big deal of teaching their new operators to always run/drive in the efficient REV range for the engine rather than just going for the high gears straight away & then letting the engine lug along below its efficient minimum, or for that matter, running the engine out beyond its greatest efficiency at the top end!!

    Even most recreational 4Wheelers have managed to learn this; engines have an efficient rev range, & driving under or over that 'best for power, torque, & fuel economy' rev range just to stay in their 'overdrive' gear too much will cost in the long run - maybe largely in excess fuel costs, (yes, they've learnt the hard way that running in a high gear too much & lugging the engine as a result only wastes fuel!) but often also in maintenance & repair costs as well as in their vehicle's long term reliability, especially for their clutches & over-drive gears!! In reality, most Vehicle manufacturers give us gears because it's too hard for them to develop an engine that runs at its most efficient across its entire rev range, or to develop an engine that will deliver power & economy across the entire speed range that the users want or desire from the vehicle!! The only vehicle manufacturer that's managed to get around those problems that I'm aware of is Tesla, & guess what?? Their vehicles run engines that are always at their most efficient so they don't have any other gear choices at all!! You either go forwards, backwards, or stop! But they can drive as fast or as slow as the operator wants (weeeellll, I hope you get the drift! )

    How do you think truck engines & gearboxes manage to reliably reach the millions of kms they do between major overhauls? It sure ain't thru lugging their engines along along at 600 rpm & effectively idling with 15th gear selected behind an engine that's designed to run at it's most efficient between 1200 & 2400 rpm, nor is it thru spending most of their time running in their highest gear 'cos it's more economical to get it into their top cruising gear quickly' - it just isn't economical or viable to do that when you are driving in the real world! Conditions & posted speed limits don't always permit that, so they run their engines in the engine's most efficient REV RANGE, & select whatever gear will give them the ability to move efficiently & economically at the road speed they currently want - so for the vast majority of their driving, they aren't going to be in their highest gear! And in the long term, doing this pays off handsomely in reduced fuel bills, reduced maintenance costs, and reduced repair costs!

    Some of us have learnt the hard way that running in the engine's efficient rev range rather than dumping it into top as soon as we are moving actually works with our V-twin Spyders, & some of us have learnt that it isn't always necessary to repeat others' mistakes to learn the very same lessons.

    Peter, fellow Australian, don't you realize that our vehicles are under less stress than most of the "up and over" world. Something to do with not having to contend with gravity, I've been told before. Our issues are around requiring stickier tyres to stop us from falling off the earth, aren't they

    Thanks for your detail, I'm still asking for actual figures (% of Spyders) where normal (old fashioned?) revs have been used to cause significant failures/premature wear - I was not initially arguing the "against" the higher revving argument. But I see things creep into people's opinion that may be questionable/illogical.

    The point is made, and accepted, that driving in an optimal rev range produces the best power but economy not necessarily so, and what does fuel economy have to do with the subject anyway?
    Silly examples that don't support the argument:
    I've heard aeroplane engines need to rev. on this thread: what 2700rpm is high?
    You have written not to "lug" truck engines at 600 rpm. Who does that?
    How does trucks running at 1200 - 2400rpm equate to faster running engines? For a few examples.

    Often I hear the implied stupid argument that an engine uses the least amount of fuel at the highest torque or power revolutions. Laws of Physics suggest otherwise.

    Not trying to be too picky but "modern cars refuse to select their highest gears" is not universal at all. The ones that I have come across all do go to the top gear quickly. Yes they have learned behaviour controlling gear changes, based on load/throttle position etc, but that is to maintain adequate power, and control emissions.
    You mentioned 4WD I've had quite a few, just looking at a new Prado (top popular 4WD) to replace the wife's. It is offered with 6 speed (2 overdrives), the 4th gear no different to past 5 speed model, strongly suggesting the designers are targeting economy.
    My Mitsubishi Challenger switches to top very quickly, adding a "chip" has created more power and torque but the engine spends even more time at low revs, and with improved economy. No discernible extra wear. Reading 4WD mags , the Internet and Forums don't suggest revving engines at all, on my readings. First 4WD bought new 1983, probably driven 0ne million Kms in them. My various F100/Bronco's clearly ran most efficiently at low low revs (did probably 400,000 Km's in those (bullet proof). I can go on. You did not mention marine engines - tell me about these modern engines! ha
    .

    Tesla? isn't "don't have any other gear choices at all" because they are electric?

    Maybe I haven't learnt the hard way yet. But the last fifty years of extensive driving numerous types of engine things does not support the argument "revving is better", if I am now to argue the "against" case.

    I'm not saying that you should "lug" an engine at all. Sensible driving of course (I understand what has been said and there is some truth in it all).

    Evidence on Spyders, other than anecdotal please.

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    Shifter, I remember the Yamaha RD350 2 stroke. What did you get out of the tank when running the old ton? Something like 50 miles, refuel every 1/2 hour?. How long did it last doing that? 5000 miles? Not much was it, to have to rebuild it. That bike doesn't support the argument on this thread either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosebelle View Post
    Shifter, I remember the Yamaha RD350 2 stroke. What did you get out of the tank when running the old ton? Something like 50 miles, refuel every 1/2 hour?. How long did it last doing that? 5000 miles? Not much was it, to have to rebuild it. That bike doesn't support the argument on this thread either.
    Yeah heavy on fuel and 2 stroke oil but big on excitement!
    Was a long time ago, owned both the RD350 air cooled as well as an old XS650 twin, world's apart.
    Didn't really own it long enough to rebuild it but throwing rings in an elderly 2-stroke is a walk in the park:-)
    After posting elsewhere and getting more reaction I now see I've both misread and mis interpreted the OPs sticky post......I'll move my 1/8" masking tape line down to 3500rpm as the NO GO area.
    I'll see what revs it's pulling at a legal 60kph(37mph) in third as riding around at 5000 at that speed sounds and feels ridiculous and cruel to the engine,
    I know not to lug a modern V Twin engine, I also own a Victory Vegas cruiser 1700cc and it don't like to lug either, it'll do it but it's cruel on the engine.
    It's best at 3000 and up, the factory limiter comes in at 5100 on my model but with the pipes, intake, advance,as well as Power Commander V and dynotuned I've had it lifted to 5500 and will have it extended to 6500 once hotter cams and big bore kit go in later this year.
    But that's apples and oranges and pumpkins really.
    The Polaris V Twin and the Rotax V Twin are different animals entirely.
    I've got to do a run today to see a herbalist who is making me up some Comfrey ointment as the strong stuff is unobtainable here right now.
    And my wrist is still sore from the Spyder bite last week:-)

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    Just wanted to thank you for posting this!! It was very helpful as i am a new Spyder RT owner!
    “Do's & Do Not's” for New Spyder Owners:
    Updated June 27th, 2016

    This information is for both the 900 and 1330 series engines and will be indicated when something applies specifically to one or the other.

    There are several "things" a Spyder owner needs to know when buying and operating their Spyder to help them have a better experience, and to avoid causing complications later.

    This is a collection of "sage-advice" gathered from various resources on Spyder Lover's and other reliable sources to help you enjoy your experience with your new Spyder; and to avoid "beginner mistakes" that may cause grief later-on.

    Realize what you are buying:
    More and more new Spyder owners have not had any experience with "sport-vehicles", such as motorcycles and such. If you are new to this, then welcome to a new experience for you!

    However, you must realize a few things are going to happen that are just simply part of owning and riding sport-vehicles.


    Do not try to make your Spyder what it is not! Your Spyder is...

    • Exhilarating (A Spyder gets you out of the house and car and into the outdoors, so enjoy it!)
    • Windy (Do not try to hide behind your windshield.)

    • Hot (You are sitting on top of a motor, so expect it to be! All new motorcycles and recreation vehicles run hotter than in the past.)

    • A high revving machine (900 series engine models only.)


    Purchase your Spyder from a dealer with a good reputation:
    Endless future problems appear to stem from purchases and service from poor dealers. Do your homework on the dealer you are buying from. Check around to see if others have had good experiences with the dealer; both with the sales and service departments. If you are considering a used Spyder be sure to look at the maintenance records, and be sure it has been thoroughly inspected. Be sure the computer updates and recalls have been done. (This may not have occurred when an individual is selling one. A dealership should be able to tell if the system has been updated and all recalls completed.)

    Check on Spyderlovers.com to see what others say.

    READ THE MANUAL FRONT COVER TO THE BACK!!!
    You are excited to ride however do yourself a HUGE favor and read the manual entirely before doing so. You may be surprised what you (and possibly your dealer) may learn. Frequently questions are asked on Spyderlover.com that are answered in the manual.

    GENERAL INFORMATION:

    Learn how your Spyder works:
    You do not have to become a mechanic, but having knowledge will help you out in more ways than can be mentioned. Spyderlovers.com is a good place to learn.

    Missing vent:
    There never was a right-side vent for models up to 2014. Increasing airflow is the official reason from BRP.
    The 2014 RTS 1330 model does have vent covers on both sides, due to changes made to the cooling system.

    Toolkit:
    It is underneath your seat, unless you have an RSS or STS -- then the tool kit is in the Frunk (Front Trunk) mounted on the right side. Read your manual!


    "Humming Sound" after turning the key off:
    You will hear a humming sound for about 30-45 minutes after turning-off 2012-13 Spyders. This is normal and mentioned in the manual -- not to worry about it. Pre-2012's have some humming, but it appears not to last as long as on the '12's and '13's. (It is in your manual.) No information yet regarding the 2014 RTS model, but from information received, you will not likely hear the humming-sound.

    Locking the glove box and handlebars:
    When parked; turn the handlebars fully to the left or right (does not matter which direction), then turn the ignition-key one-quarter turn to the left (counter-clockwise) -- then pull the key directly out without turning it back to the right. (The key will have been in the 9-3 o'clock position when turned to the left.) Your glove box and handlebars are now locked. CAUTION: Avoid putting heat-sensitive items in your glove box. Also avoid over-stuffing or items that may shift and jam the glove box shut. If the glove box jams from something in it... try shaking the Spyder or moving the Spyder forward or backward to move the contents to un-jam it. Sometimes simply taking a ride can be enough to move the contents to un-jam the glove box. A better idea is simply to not overfill the glove box.


    “NANNY & CODES”; WHAT ARE THESE: (Overall, this still applies to the 1330 model. Read your manual.)
    The Spyder’s operations are controlled by a computer system, affectionately referred to as the “Nanny”. The Nanny monitors your Spyder when running for safety purposes and is extremely sensitive to anything operating out of its designed limits.
    When it senses something wrong it may affect the operation of your Spyder by applying system controls. (i.e., brakes, stability control, and etc.)
    When serious problems are detected by the “Nanny system” you will see your check-engine light (an orange dash-screen).
    When this happens, the Nanny may override your ability to operate the Spyder “normally”; or put your Spyder into the “Limp Mode”, which may not allow it to operate at all.

    LIMP-MODE:
    Limp-mode is a precautionary feature of the “Nanny-system” whereby it will only allow operation within a narrow-band of performance. It is designed to prevent further damage to the vehicle, and get you to a safe place, or to a dealer if possible. (i.e., reduced speed function). Read your manual about Limp-Mode.
    WARNING: The Limp-Mode can kick-in while riding your Spyder and slow it down suddenly and substantially (below highway speeds). Be sure to exit the road immediately to a safe location if this happens.

    ORANGE SCREEN:
    This occurs when the system discovers a potential problem. Many potential issues can cause the Orange-Screen to appear.
    Do not confuse the night-screen with the Orange Screen. The night-screen occurs when the sun begins to set or when there is little sun to be seen. When the Orange Screen is displayed the entire background will be dominantly orange in color; not outlined by orange as with some of the night-screens; and will have an "engine" icon displayed in the middle of the screen. Read further...

    CODES: Codes are generated by the "system" when a problem occurs to help technicians diagnose a potential problem. When the "orange screen" is showing, you can find out if there is a “code” generated by the computer to identify the problem. If you do not see the screen, try to reproduce the problem until you get the screen again. If you cannot reproduce the screen, you may likely be able to continue to ride, however you may want to cut your trip short if you do not know what caused the screen warning.
    To reference the problem(s) associated with the various codes you need a Maintenance & Repair Manual; which is not provided upon the purchase of a Spyder -- however, the code-number remains stored in the Spyder's system for your dealer-technician. You do not have to worry if you do not have the manual or cannot retrieve the code. Just get your Spyder to a dealer and they will find the code generated.
    If you can retrieve the code; write it down and post it on spyderlovers.com, someone will likely be able to look-up the code and its related problem. This is highly recommended, so you know what you are dealing with.
    Footnote: The "system" keeps a record in memory of the functions of your Spyder to include your speeds, rpm's and more. So, if you are abusing your Spyder, the computer's records will let your technician know.

    Code List (for printing): (provided by Ottawa-rider)
    You can find a PDF-file list of the codes and their meaning to print and carry with you when riding. Look for post #6 from member Ottawa-Rider: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...oftware-Update

    Code Reference App for Smart Phones:
    (APPS are created, and maintained by Rattigan Roger):
    Spydercodes for Android at Googleplay
    Myspyder for I-Phones at the Apple download site


    RETRIEVING CODES:


    RS: (Provided by NancysToys.)
    1. Turn Ignition key to "ON"
    2. Push the "MODE" button to display total hours screen. Start engine and run until check engine light (or other fault indication) is displayed.
    3. Press and hold "MODE" button while pushing the "High Beam Flash" button rapidly five times (within 2 seconds).
    4. The active faults will be displayed or "No Active Fault Code" will be shown.
    5. If you do not get a message, you didn't get the flash beams sequence done during the allotted time. Try again.
    6. Jot the code-number down and check the list in the manual to determine your problem. Share this with your mechanic.
    RT & ST: (RT provided by Jerbear / ST by Billybovine)
    1. Turn Ignition key to "ON" and wait for the multifunction gauge to complete its self-test.
    2. Push the "MODE" "SET" & "Turn Signal" buttons at the same time. (Push all three straight in.) If there was a code generated, you will see it on your screen. You might want to try it a couple times to make sure you pushed the three buttons at the same time.

    2014 RTS: (Provided by MRH)
    Retrieving codes on the 2014 is close to the same as other RT model years, except it works best to first hold the mode and set button, and then activate the turn signal button.

    Clarification on the P0127 and P0217 code messages: (From Steve with BRP customer care) Some have experienced the P0127 and/or P0217 codes on their Spyders so we'd like to provide additional information on what they mean. The following is the link to this thread started by Steve, from BRP Customer Care: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...P0217-messages

    DESS ERROR when with a group of Spyders. BRP RESPONSE:
    Further diagnostics on some of the intermittent DESS issues having been reported. The way the DESS system works is that a signal is detected by the DESS module antenna (in the ignition switch) from the key. However, if there is another Spyder (or even another chipped vehicle) key from a different unit within arm's length to the ignition, it is possible that the module picks up that signal instead of the working key's signal, and decides that the signal is not the right one.
    This happens often with no error codes or other symptoms and can appear to be an issue identical to a DESS module failure, however the system is operating as intended. If you see this error, please ensure there are no other Spyder or chipped keys within arm's length to the ignition switch on your vehicle, and wait a few minutes before trying again. If the problem occurs far away from other keys (eg while you are the only Spyder at a gas station), then it is much more likely to be an issue.
    Hope this helps,
    Steven M.
    Customer Satisfaction, Social Media / Dealer Tech Support Team Lead
    BRP
    Follow us on Twitter @BRPCare
    Follow us on Instagram @BRPCare

    spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?92781-Experienced-a-DESS-error-for-the-first-time-at-Spyderfest-Please-read-this!


    RIDING TIPS (All models and years):

    JUST RELAX YOUR GRIP!!
    People's propensity is to squeeze the daylights out of the grips. This will make the Spyder skip from side-to-side causing a "jerky-ride" (lateral movement); which is the first comment heard by new riders.
    Relax your grip and you'll soon see the Spyder's ride will have a reduction in its "jerkiness".
    Relaxing typically comes naturally after riding it for several hundred miles. However; remember, a Spyder will always have some lateral movement to it; which is only part of the thrill of riding one!
    Check tire pressure if you feel there is still too much lateral movement or a lack of steering control after relaxing your grip.
    Some Spyders have alignment issues; do have it checked, or see one of the new “Laser Alignment” specialists that are sponsors on Spyderlovers.com. Others have improved their Spyder’s control with various after-market suspension, sway bars, and etc. Look for the sponsors of Spyderlovers.com for solutions to your needs.

    NOTE MOTORCYCLISTS: Motorcyclists are seemingly most affected by the lateral movement associated with the Spyder. They are just going to have to realize the Spyder is not a two-wheel vehicle and it is going to feel different. Also motorcycle riders need to "unlearn" counter-steering when riding a Spyder. It simply doesn't apply to a Spyder.

    CORNERING:
    Read the manual and follow the suggestions. Lean toward the handlebar closest to the inside of the corner. (Right-bar on right turns; left-bar on left turns.) This shifts your weight on the machine and also puts your head slightly lower to the center of gravity; causing you to have less of the lateral-pull associated with cornering with a Spyder.
    You may find it easiest to push on the handlebar opposite of the turn you are making; while pulling somewhat on the other. Be sure to push harder than pulling. Push the right handlebar for left turns; push the left handlebar for right turns. A little practice and you will get better at it. Pushing is much easier when you are leaning into your corners.
    Use your knees on the sides of the seat to help secure yourself on tight-fast corners.
    Your passenger can lean some also if they wish; however they should hang onto their grab-rails in corners.
    Read the Motorcycle Safety Foundation’s guide on cornering a motorcycle. The setup they suggest prior to entering a corner applies to the Spyder.

    DO NOT RIDE THE BRAKE, or touch the brake when riding or cornering:
    Pay attention to whether you are doing this and stop-it!
    Far too many people seem to have this terribly bad-habit (with their cars and other vehicles), and the Spyder’s Nanny doesn't like it.
    The Nanny-system will begin to give you trouble eventually. So blame yourself if you ride your brakes and have problems!

    Apply brake when starting the engine:
    Too many new riders are finding themselves stranded with a Spyder that won't start; until they finally put their foot on the brake and find their Spyder starts right up.
    An SE5 Spyder requires pressure on the brake to start it unless you are in neutral.
    Many make sure it is in neutral before shutting the motor down. You don't have to do that. The SE5 Spyder will go into neutral automatically when started while applying the brake.

    Cruise Control Hint:
    When disengaging the cruise control (i.e., by tapping the brakes slightly) the Spyder makes an abrupt slow down.
    To eliminate this, slightly "roll-on" the throttle (as if slightly accelerating) before tapping the brakes. When doing so, the cruise control will disengage smoothly without any jerking motion of a slow down.
    Practice this a couple times until you see how easy it is to solve this problem.

    Do not ride on gravel roads:
    Despite the fact you are on three-wheels -- you are also "belt-driven". Rocks and belts don't mix. Try to avoid riding on gravel whenever possible, and check your belt right after doing so if you have to ride on gravel.

    Stop Light Activation:
    Spyders sometimes cannot activate stoplights controlled by sensors implanted in the road at the stop; or that have infrared sensors.
    When pulling up to a stoplight, look to see if there is a square or rectangle tar-shape on the road. If there is, pull the center of your Spyder over the top of one of the tar-strips -- preferably at the corner of the square or rectangle. This will expose as much metal of your Spyder as possible to help set-off the sensors.
    If you do not see sensor markings, look for an infrared sensor up near the lights. Typically, they are aluminum-color and look a bit like a camera pointed at the stopping location. If present, position your Spyder dead center of where it is pointing to help set it off.
    Be sure you are not too far back or forward of the area you need to be for either of these sensors -- otherwise you will not set them off.
    Where sensors do not work well, pull forward safely enough to let the vehicle behind set-off the sensors.
    Many states have laws allowing you to move through an intersection after waiting for a specific time. My state (Illinois) has such a law, and I use it any time the lights do not work. Check the laws of the states you are traveling through.

    Pay attention to how your Spyder is running:
    If your Spyder is showing even the slightest sign of not running or operating right; check to be sure you are not guilty of doing, or are not doing any of the items listed here.
    If not, then get your Spyder checked-out soon as possible or risk having problems later -- possibly while on a trip.
    Sometimes a subtle difference is an early sign of something going wrong or out of adjustment. Spyders can be sensitive machines.

    SHIFTING SUGGESTIONS:
    (The shifting-point suggestions for the 1330 and 900 series engines are explained separately.)

    Shifting the 1330 models:

    The “ECO” mode shift coach suggests shifting at the following rpm’s:
    1st to 2nd: 1,800 rpm’s
    2nd to 3rd: 1,950 rpm’s
    3rd and up: 2,200 rpm’s

    When manually shifting the 1330, it seems too many are over thinking it. If you are not using the ECO-mode, then just shift at around 2500-3000 rpm’s. That shift-point falls right at the beginning of the first-level power band, which is perfect. (Funny how that seems to work! See below.)

    1330 Engine Power Band (Dyno-Chart Data):

    1st level power band begins at approximately 2,500 — 2,700 rpm’s and remains flat until 4,000 rpm’s.
    2nd level power band begins at approximately 4,500 — 4,700 rpm’s and peaks at 5,000 rpm’s.
    After 5,000 rpm’s the power declines slightly until reaching 6,000 rpm’s; where the power rapidly declines; thus proving any increase in rpm’s above 6,000 rpm’s on the 1300 is inefficient and fruitless with regard to obtaining additional power and torque.

    What does this mean?
    It means shifting below 2,500 rpm’s can put an extra load on the machine when accelerating above a relaxed pace. While it may appear the engine has plenty of power below 2,500, it, in fact, is not producing peak performance power at that point, thus, shifting below the power band makes the engine work a bit harder. While the manual suggests shifting below 2,500 rpm’s, it is doing so with the thought the operator is accelerating at a very relaxed pace.
    Some have a misperception with regard to shifting a machine within its peak power band. It is often perceived to require harder/faster acceleration; when, in fact, that is not the case.
    It simply means you hold the machine in a gear longer before shifting. One does not have to takeoff from a dead stop like a drag racer to shift within a vehicle’s power band. Again, you simply hold it in each gear for a bit longer until the rpm’s reach the power band.
    American’s have long been known to have a preference to low-torque machines. With that often comes the tendency to want to shift to a vehicle’s highest gear as soon as possible, and leave it there… at least until the engine begins to shake and shudder. Not a good idea with any vehicle.

    Why is this important?
    Over a short period of time and mileage, there would probably be little noticeable affect or damage to a machine operated below its power band under normal, relaxed conditions; however, over a longer-term, there certainly can be a excessive wear along the machine’s drivetrain.
    In addition to seeking peak vehicle performance, expert/professional drivers & riders always operate their machines within its power band at all times for added control and handling. Consider it a safety precaution.
    Any vehicle operated outside of its peak performance band is operated with some loss of control and efficiency — varying, of course, to the degree it is operated out of its power band.
    For most owners of the 1330 engine, its lower torque seems to satisfy the inherent American “need” for an engine operating at a lower rpm.
    NOTE: There is NOT a “Trailer Mode” for the 1300 model.

    1330 "ECO" Shifting:(Check your manual) (Provided by PMK)
    The ECO (fuel economy mode) setting reduces fuel consumption by limiting throttle response and maximum throttle opening to maintain an optimal cruising setting.
    Activating the ECO Mode:
    Press the "MODE" button for 2-seconds while in the Main Screen.
    When activated, a green arrow will alternate with the gearbox position indicator to indicate the optimal timing to up-shift the transmission.
    NOTE: The Gearbox indicator will return when the transmission is shifted.
    De-Activating the ECO Mode:
    Press the "MODE" button for 2-seconds while in the Main Screen.
    ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: (provided by Lamonster) The throttle map changes to a more progressive acceleration; rather than a linear one. During hard acceleration there will not be an indication to shift -- the ECM understands you are accelerating and will not recommend a shift at this time. Only when the vehicle speed and acceleration have stabilized for a certain time and the ECM judges there is enough engine torque available in the next gear to keep the same speed and acceleration will an upshift indication be displayed.

    Shifting the 900 series models:


    900 Series Engine Power Band (Dyno Chart Data):
    The 900 series engine’s power band begins at approximately 4500 rpm’s (much higher than the 1330 engine). However, there is a substantial increase in the power efficiency of the engine beginning at around 5000 – 5500 rpm’s.
    There is an additional increase in the power band at around 6000 rpm’s; where it continues to climb until around 7800 rpm’s, after which the power remains flat before reducing after 8000 rpm’s.

    What does this mean and why is this important?
    It simply means the same as mentioned above regarding the 1300 engine’s power band.
    Shifting or operating a vehicle outside or below the power band provides less than stellar performance, less control, and potential wear and damage in extreme or prolonged operation.
    Please read the explanation under the 1330 engine operation.

    Cruise at higher RPM's with the 900 series engine:
    This seems to be a big hurdle for too many owners of the 900 series engine models. Europeans understand high-rev motors – Americans, not so much.
    Get over your fear of running the Spyder's Rotax engine at high rpm's. A properly maintained Rotax engine is designed to run at high rpm’s. Do not listen to anyone telling you otherwise. Far too many reliable experts are on the side of this advice.
    For proof: The RTS SE5's "Trailer Mode" (with fully loaded trailer) won't let you shift out of first-gear until you hit almost 28 MPH! BRP’s own design engineers let you know the machine can run at higher rpm’s; and force it to do so in “Trailer Mode”. Check this link also, where the owner's Spyder suffered problems by running at low rpm's: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ifting-results

    SE5 RTS 900 Series Clutch Engagement and Performance (Does not apply to the 1330 models.):
    The Spyder's SE5 clutch is considered fully engaged (stalled) when the rpm's are at 3200 (+/- 200). See the manual. Running at rpm's at or lower than this range for extended periods allows slippage of the clutch, resulting in premature wear on the clutch. (They are expensive to replace.)
    It is universal in opinion from experienced riders, the best performance is realized when keeping your Spyder's RPM's at 4300 or above no matter the gear you are in at any time (First-gear being the exception, of course). This does NOT mean to shift at 4300 rpm’s; but rather to shift at higher rpm’s so that the rpm’s drop no lower than 4300 when engaged in the next, higher gear. Shifting at 4300 rpm’s will drop the rpm’s close to the “clutch-locked” rpm of around 3500 and is far below the power-band of the engine. Not recommended.

    Engine Lugging:

    Do NOT lug your Rotax engine! Shifting at too low of rpm can easily cause lugging, and the damage related to it. Example: When accelerating quickly, or climbing a steep hill, you can cause the Spyder to “lug” unless you downshift first. Lugging is evident when you hear or feel knocking and vibrations beyond the norm, as well as having a lack of power. Lugging can be done easily in any gear between second to fifth. Downshift to avoid lugging. NOTE: The RTS-SE5's manual may confuse some on pages 71 and 76 (2011 manual) where it mentions 3,000 rpm's as the "magic-number" to shift, and not to exceed 4,000 rpm's. This references someone learning to ride the Spyder for the first time -- not necessarily the normal operating range. 3,000 rpm’s is below the clutch’s locked position; thus causing slippage (wear).

    DO NOT USE ALL THE GEARS ALL THE TIME: (All models.)
    Just because the Spyder has 5 or 6 gears does NOT mean you have to always use all of them all the time! Apparently there are far too many who assume they have to shift their Spyder up to fifth or sixth gear no matter what their speed is, and this could be a problem. Get over what ever is making you think you need to use all the gears all the time.

    For the 900 series:
    Keep the rpm’s at 4300 or higher no matter what gear you are in. If you drop below that, then downshift and remain in that gear. You do not have to use all the gears every single time you ride.
    Example: When cruising with a 5-speed 900 series around town at 39 to 49 MPH you should stay in 3rd-gear. You can cruise between 39 - 49 MPH all day in 3rd-gear. It is okay to do so. Shifting to 4th-gear in that scenario will drop the RPM's below the 4300 range; which strains the Spyder's ability to perform at its best power-range and diminishes the performance and enjoyment of your machine. If your Spyder feels “mushy” at the throttle, then downshift – and below 4300 rpm’s it will feel mushy.

    SHIFTING-POINT SUGGESTIONS for an RTS-SE5:
    1st to 2nd gear: Shift between 22 MPH and 29+ MPH - no sooner!
    2nd to 3rd gear: Shift at 5100+ rpm's (39 MPH) Up-shifting to 3rd gear drops the rpm’s to 4,300 -- exactly the rpm's you want to stay above.
    3rd to 4th gear: Shift again at 5100+ rpm's (49 MPH)
    4th to 5th gear: Shift to 5th only when you reach 65 MPH on level terrain. Upshift and downshifting in 5th is expected on hilly terrain to keep the rpm’s up.

    You can ride ALL-DAY in 4th-gear between 49 MPH up to and including 65 MPH without ever using 5th gear. On some rides you may never use 5th gear -- period. (Some run at much higher rpm's than that.) NOTE: Cruising in 4th gear between 63-65 MPH will have the rpm's in the mid 5,000 rpm range -- which begins to put the engine in its better performance-range (more power) which is what you want for power and control. NOTE: You will find your Spyder will run quieter, smoother and still have power at the throttle in that rpm range, and the dreaded "belt-vibration" might not be a problem when you finally get used to the above suggestions.

    DO NOT ROLL-OFF THE THROTTLE when shifting an SE5 and SE6:
    The manual states you do not have to roll-off the throttle when shifting with the SE5/SE6 system, and it is suggested you do not.
    Hold the throttle steady (do not accelerate or decelerate) when hitting the paddle-shifter at the above recommended shift-points, and you will find your Spyder SE5/SE6 shifts very smoothly when doing so. Try it... eventually, you'll become very good at shifting.

    DO NOT hold the SE5 and SE6 shift-paddle too long:
    A few have had problems when resting their fingers “heavy” on the paddle-shifter; which apparently can confuse the Spyder's Nanny regarding what your intentions are. Hold the paddle-shifter only long enough to shift gears.

    Downshifting with the SE5 and SE6:
    There is a lot conversation about this subject. The SE5 will automatically downshift for you, so you are not required to downshift if you do not want to. However, advanced & professional riders recommend getting in the habit of manually downshifting at all times to help maintain full rider-control of their machine at any moment (by maintaining power and torque-control at an optimal configuration).
    In rare occurrences after a fast/sudden full stop, some found their Spyder may not downshift into first-gear if they did not manually downshift. There is no quick resolution... you just have to repeatedly try to get into first again. Rev the engine, try reverse, try anything... eventually it should shift, while drivers honk at you for not moving!

    Big V-Twin Riders and the 900 Series Rotax Engine:
    Big V-twin riders are often too accustomed to their engine lugging along at 2,100 to 3,500 RPM's, and expect a 900 series Spyder to do the same. Doing so is a killer for the 900 series Spyder engine.

    Gas Mileage at Higher RPM's:
    Any engine’s "power to fuel-efficiency" will be found within its power band. This principle holds true for all engines.
    The 900 series engines are not champions of fuel mileage; so expect to stop more often for fuel. Start looking at around 120 miles.
    Fuel mileage is considerably better on the 1330 models. Many are seeing nearly 35-40 mpg, depending on the conditions and load.

    IN CONCLUSION OF SHIFTING SUGGESTIONS:
    Simply believe what you just read above about shifting and engine performance for the model you own and do it. You will discover an entirely different, more enjoyable experience when you finally do so.

    MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO CHECK OR DO:

    Tire Pressure and Shock-Setting:
    Both make a big difference in how the Spyder handles. Tire pressure and shock setting depends on your load-weight, and type of riding. Check these settings often -- and remember no vehicle operates at its best when over-weighted! Sorry... but that is just how it is.
    Tire pressure suggestions: Pre-2013 RTS: 18 pounds in the front tires and 28 pounds in the back tire. (The RT-S SE5 2011 manual recommends 15-17 pounds for the front tire; and 28-30 for the rear tire.)
    2013 models: 15-16 psi in the front-tire (as per NancysToys).
    1330 suggestions: (Updates to come.)
    Front shock settings (for adjustable shocks): For the front (manually adjusted) shock, use 4 or 5.
    Seems the stiffer the better for most, especially if you are “loading” the Spyder (check the manual for load limits).
    Don't forget the RTS has a rear air-shock that can also be adjusted to your liking. (READ THE MANUAL)

    Check your battery cables, fuses, and such often:
    Anytime these get loose from vibration the Spyder's Nanny will "speak to you". These, seemingly "small", issues are often found to be the root of many owners' problem-posts. Do let yourself be a victim of forgetting these simple inspection points.

    Check your windshield brackets often:
    They have been known to fail occasionally. The consensus is if you run with your shield "full-down" most of the time, it will cause undue stress on the middle bracket, which raises and lowers the shield. Move the shield up slightly off the metal-stop to avoid the potential damage. Keep in mind you cannot replace just the bracket. The entire lift-mechanism has to be replaced to the tune of around $600.

    Battery Tenders:
    "Tenders" help prolong a battery's life by “conditioning” it, while keeping it charged. (Short-rides may not always sufficiently charge your battery.)
    Make sure you get a battery-tender -- NOT a regular charger for this purpose. There is a difference!
    Tenders are particularly valuable if you store your Spyder for longer periods of time (typically more than a few weeks without riding); or if your battery is older.
    IMPORTANT NOTE (Pre-2013's): When permanently attaching the pigtail cables for your tender; NEVER loosen the negative jumper terminal connection (found under the seat when you open it); or use it to ground any accessory! You need to connect the battery-tender pigtails to the actual battery terminal posts found only by removing some of the panels. This issue has been well publicized on spyderlovers.com. The following thread is one you can start with regarding this: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...-FRIGGIN-IDIOT It is troublesome to remove the Tupperware to get to the actual battery terminals or other ground connections, but it is essential on the Spyder to do so.
    Starting with the 2013's, the battery is now accessible through the front trunk (“frunk”), which makes it a lot easier for get to it.

    Fluid levels (brake, oil, coolant) have to be correct (All models):
    Check the fluids as you add miles and top-them-off; otherwise risk having problems with your Spyder (sometimes fairly major).
    Low brake fluid: Can cause your Spyder to throw a code; thus stopping your trip while you scratch your head wondering why. Brake fluid level can go down as your brake pads wear over time.
    Low Oil can cause SE5/SE6 Shifting Problems: A low oil reading; at or below the ADD mark, on the dipstick has been known to cause shifting problems. Failure to maintain a proper oil level might not only cause shifting problems, but possibly premature clutch failure. Keep your oil properly filled, as per your manual. BRP suggests checking the oil-level every 300-miles.
    Coolant levels: Check this occasionally. Leaks have been known to occur occasionally in the system. A technician, at the first opportunity, should look at any low-level indication for possible leaks.
    RTS 1330 2014 Oil Change: Here is a link to a great tutorial on an oil-change for the 2014 RTS 1330. It notes a few errors in the manual: (Provided by Texas) http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...-RT-Oil-Change

    SE5/SE6/Manual shifting problems may = Cracked Vacuum Hoses:
    Cracked (dry-rotted) vacuum hoses are related to shifting problems on the SE5's, SE6's and manual shift Spyders. Heat seems to be the culprit. Have these checked regularly as part of your maintenance program and replace them if needed. No reports on the 1330's yet; but this might remain an issue despite the improved cooling system.

    SE5/SE6 Shifting Sensor:
    The "shifting-sensor" on a few SE5's has failed causing the machine not to shift, or to shift inconsistently. There is no advance resolution for this problem. It is simply suggested you pay attention to your machine's shifting, and have it checked occasionally when at the dealer. (Again, this may also be a maintenance point for the 1330’s.)

    Unlocking a Stuck Frunk (Front trunk): (Provided by Finless)
    This is a link to a thread on Spyderlovers.com providing a video of how to get your "frunk" unstuck; as well as cautionary words about keeping it from getting stuck. Several of the posts within the thread discuss the various differences between models and model-years; however it appears this valuable piece of information would work for most. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...runk-lid-video

    DO NOT Overfill the Gas Tank (Does not apply to 1330 models):
    This causes a few problems. When you get an inch or more below the top of the tank, stop filling it – period!
    Overfilling causes fuel to flow-over into the evap-canister or when the fuel gets hot and expands.
    This can lead to problems with gas-fumes (smell), and a potential fire hazard.
    In late 2012, early 2013, BRP sent owners of all models new gas-caps to seal better and help with the gas fume problem. However, the gas-fume smell can be persistent in some cases. See your dealer if you experience an excessive smell of fuel when riding or after. There are a few threads on the subject that you can thumb-through and share with your mechanic. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...-Fix-Gas-SMell

    Security Screws on the Body Panel: DO NOT REMOVE THEM! (Provided by NancysToys)
    Any security screws on a Spyder are there for a reason...they are not to be removed.
    On an RT they hold the posts that slip into the rubber grommets that hold the body panel in place. These are angled, and indexed to hold them in the correct position.
    Remove the standard Torx screws then pull the panel out of the grommets. Be careful putting the panel back on...the grommets can be pushed through pretty easily. Wetting the grommets and post first helps.
    Do not lubricate the grommets unless you want to lose a panel...especially the oil check panel and its twin sister.

    Radio Pre-sets: (Provided by Badazzspydee)

    Apparently some manuals have not provided complete instructions on setting presets for radio stations. Here are the instructions to do so.
    1. Press “Mode” button until the “Audio icon” appears.
    2. Use the “right or left command buttons” to find the radio station you want.
    3. A long press will start the seek feature to the next available station. Continue doing performing a seek until the station you want appears.
    4. Here is the missing step. Press the “Set” button longer than one-second to enter the Tune or Setup screen. The word “Record” should appear under the numbers of the current radio station. The shop manual states that you can tune the station in increments of .2 by short pressing the left or right command buttons now.
    5. Short press the “Up” button until the “Preset number” you want appears in the box to the left side of the screen. I noticed this step is touchy when trying to get the number to stay in the box!
    6. Immediately press and hold the “down button”.
    7. Once the preset takes, the screen will exit the Tune or Setup screen and returns to the initial Audio screen.
    8. Repeat steps 2 through 5 for the next preset. Note that doing a short press of the left or right command buttons will cycle through the already set presets. A long press will start the seek feature.

    Listen to the radio without having the key turned-on or engine running: (Provided by szohar)
    Immediately press and hold the MODE button for a few seconds after turning the engine off. The radio will start-up. To turn if off, just turn the Hazard Warning lights on and then off. (Provided by billybovine)

    Fuel Octane:

    This subject is not up for a long debate on this thread. Fuel octane (and what it means) is second only to discussions on oil; and there are as many opinions and misperceptions as there are people giving them -- so if you have an opinion on fuel octane -- put it on another thread PLEASE!
    Fuel octane rating does NOT indicate whether one is superior to another, as many believe. In other words, 93-octane fuel is not a superior fuel to a lower octane fuel. It is simply different and designed for a specific engine use.
    What you should know though, is manufacturers do not just “make-up” an octane recommendation out of thin air for their engines. Using a fuel of an octane rating out of the recommended range can cause: Poor performance, possibly higher fuel consumption, and engine-knocking (damage to the engine); just to name a few issues.
    Your Spyder is an expensive vehicle, so make your own decision.
    Read your owner's manual for the recommended octane-rating for your model and location (U.S. / Non-U.S.)

    Customizing your Spyder for performance, fitment, and looks:
    Too often we read where someone buys a product only to find it does not work well, is not compatible with a Spyder, and/or the customer service from the provider is not good. Custom, after-market, equipment covering just about everything imaginable for a Spyder is readily available for most model types and years from the many sponsors of Spyderlovers.com
    Do yourself a favor and avoid problems by asking other members what they use and their experience with it. It could save you a lot of grief and expense.

    Your Dealer is the First Place To Go When Having a Problem:
    Go to your dealer if you are having any trouble with your Spyder. Let them do their best to work-through the problem you are having.

    As A Last Resort For Problems:
    You can contact:brp.care@brp.com Doing so will connect you with the special group who attempt to resolve your problems. Be sure to go to a dealer first before emailing; because if you haven't, they will send you there first. If after working with a dealer, if you want to communicate with someone at BRP, the use the email address provided. Be sure to be polite and patient. These people are Spyder riders themselves and will attempt to help you; however they cannot resolve every problem.

    Lastly… Be sure to have fun and ride often...
    Which probably is the #1 "MUST DO".



    Disclaimer: The "Do's & Do Not's" is provided solely for informational purposes, and from sources thought to be reliable; however no guarantee is provided or to be implied by the information provided. The information may be updated, corrected, or deleted without notice to the potential end-user at any time. The end-user of any or all of this information remains wholly liable for their actions or inactions relating to the use of this information. The information is not intended to be a complete guide to the operation of the vehicle of reference; thus the end-user must always refer to their user's manual or qualified dealer as the final authorized source. Spyderlovers.com, its founder, officers, members, affiliates, and sponsors are not liable for one's use, or lack of use, of any or all information. Any end-user application of, or reference to, this information hereby confirms the end-user's complete knowledge, understanding, and acceptance of their sole and complete liability relating to the use of the information provided.
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