Engine Locked Down, BRP Want Cover Under Warranty

[wyliec]

Tamping with an Emission Device was illegal long before [years] 2010.

In NYS an emissions tampering law has been in effect ever since I can remember. However, when I mentioned this in another thread BajaRon had an answer for me as to why m/c's aren't checked; but, I can't remember it and don't want to misquote.

[SpyderFun]

This is the same law auto manufacturers and dealers do not like. Why? Because it allows you to take your car to a non-dealer for service. Manufacturers want their Dealers to get 100% of the work but this law stops them cold in their tracks! An example would be if you took your vehicle to a Jiffy Lube for an oil change rather than the dealer and your air conditioning stops working. Both the dealer and manufacturer cannot claim that having your oil changed by a non-authorized dealers voids your entire warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act allows competition.....and competition is a founding idea of what America is about! After market component suppliers give the buyer a CHOICE of what they want on their purchased product that a dealer may not offer. A smart dealer would offer to install these buyer purchased items so they could be paid the labor to do so..... just ask Cowtown USA Inc.

[angel]

Tamping with an Emission Device was illegal long before [years] 2010.

I agree with that on Cars but around 12 08 the Feds passed the law that as of 2010 all bikes from then on must have the emission BS on them. When they can come up with a way to check all the Cyl at the same time they will start making us have air testing done. Now the state you are in may have laws that cover this stuff before the fed mandate TX did not have one one bikes at the time

[Ron2andia]

I am an appliance retailer and what you are saying hits a raw nerve you try being on the other end of this one when some guy walks in to your store and says I just bought this on the Internet and I didn't check your prices but you are the dealer and you HAVE to bail me out even though warranty work only pays 1/3 the going rate for service and I see now that your price was just as good or better but be sure and bend over backwards to put me ahead of all your loyal customers and fix this because I'll never learn I should support the guy down the street who pays taxes and employs people and supports charities in the same town I live in , yes I may have to service his product but I don't have to put my best man on it and I don't have to hurry SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEALER HE IS THE ONE BETWEEN YOU AND THE MANUFACTURE AND HE FILLS OUT THE PAPERWORK how he fills it out makes all the differance between covered or not no one wants a bunch of Costco s products problems dumped on their door step

I hear what you are saying BUT this is an opportunity to educate that person and gain a new loyal customer. "Well next time you should buy it here based on your experience and the fact that we took care of you." is part of the conversation that should be had. I bet that person will think twice about not buying it local based on the good experience at your store. I have paid more for items based on good customer service. I agree we need to support local business but treating people like gold makes them loyal to you.

[boborgera]

I hear what you are saying BUT this is an opportunity to educate that person and gain a new loyal customer. "Well next time you should buy it here based on your experience and the fact that we took care of you." is part of the conversation that should be had. I bet that person will think twice about not buying it local based on the good experience at your store. I have paid more for items based on good customer service. I agree we need to support local business but treating people like gold makes them loyal to you.

Never happen people that buy cheap will always buy cheap!!
I owned and ran my business 30 years, And the same people that i helped out that got a job done cheaper elsewhere and they screwed it up will from time to time come to me to fix the other guys mistakes, They'll always say i didn't give you the job first because you charged more, To that i would say ;
I charge my customers for what i know not for what i do.

[Firefly]

Never happen people that buy cheap will always buy cheap!!
I owned and ran my business 30 years, And the same people that i helped out that got a job done cheaper elsewhere and they screwed it up will from time to time come to me to fix the other guys mistakes, They'll always say i didn't give you the job first because you charged more, To that i would say ;
I charge my customers for what i know not for what i do.

We deal with price shoppers all the time.. and if price is their #1 concern, they will never become a returning, regular, loyal customer. They will jump at the next 'deal'.

The internet has made this problem even worse. We get local business people buying their printing online and trying to compare that to what we do and our prices. I've asked a few how well they would be doing if everyone started going to the internet for whatever their business sells.... usually to deaf ears.

Price shoppers suck.

[Motorcycledave]

In this day and age of computer everything you are a fool to modify your car motorcycle or whatever
before your warranty runs out just for that reason here, the factory does not want to fix your stuff for
free so they will do what ever they have to deny your claim... I know that sucks but that is the way it goes.
Dave

[Jeriatric]

In this day and age of computer everything you are a fool to modify your car motorcycle or whatever
before your warranty runs out just for that reason here, the factory does not want to fix your stuff for
free so they will do what ever they have to deny your claim... I know that sucks but that is the way it goes.
Dave

Dave,

While I agree there are mods that may well put your warranty in jeopardy there are others that will not. I call them common sense mods, or safety mods that put the value of ones life above the cost of the machine, or the warranty they may put in jeoprady.

I'm a BRP junkie....fully invested in their products, and no critical unauthorized mods. See my profile. I can only hope they will be there should a problem crop up.

Only time will tell.

[hackett43]

Hello, It's been a while since i posted to this thread and i know some you are probably wondering what happened. So here goes, After going back and fourth with BRP and them
not returning calls for over a month, They finally agree on my dealer doing the diagnostics. My dealer broke down the engine and they found a broken rod and busted casing.
Engine cannot be rebuilt. Pictures were sent to BRP and they respond by asking for the electronic report from BUDS. When the rep from BRP called me, I was told that they still wouldn't
cover the repairs to my bike. The reason, They said that i over rev the engine @ 11k rpm and caused the engine to overheat.

[Bob Denman]

I was told that they still wouldn't
cover the repairs to my bike. The reason, They said that i over rev the engine @ 11k rpm and caused the engine to overheat.

Even with the rev limiter in place? How could you have over-revved it?

I'd drop the "B.S. card" on them for that lame excuse...

[IWN2RYD]

Hello, It's been a while since i posted to this thread and i know some you are probably wondering what happened. So here goes, After going back and fourth with BRP and them
not returning calls for over a month, They finally agree on my dealer doing the diagnostics. My dealer broke down the engine and they found a broken rod and busted casing.
Engine cannot be rebuilt. Pictures were sent to BRP and they respond by asking for the electronic report from BUDS. When the rep from BRP called me, I was told that they still wouldn't
cover the repairs to my bike. The reason, They said that i over rev the engine @ 11k rpm and caused the engine to overheat.

Been reading, just not responding until now.

The response from BRP is a bit interesting and makes me wonder if there is more to it.

Is the rev limiter on the TB adjusted to allow for these higher RPMs than the factory tuning? If so, this explains their position and the law ends up being in their favor as they can demonstrate their limiter protected the engine vs. the aftermarket unit...

Very heartbreaking to read regardless of the outcome and I for one am sorry you are in this position...

[hackett43]

Even with the rev limiter in place? How could you have over-revved it?

I'd drop the "B.S. card" on them for that lame excuse...

My dealer is trying to figure that out to, He said that the reading that they sine, could have been a missed gear . ( a tenth of second ). I don't think the
BUDS report show how many minutes if it did even over rev. I guess it had to overheat fast because, 1.Spyder had been sitting for at least 6 hours. 2. i had
been riding for 4-5 mins. when lock down occurred. 6. speed was between 40-45 mph. because i was nervously stuck between 2 cars and i couldn't pass.

[Bob Denman]

I somehow managed to find the rev limiter in my RT at the end of last week. That motor never went over 9000 rpm; even though I had it's tail twisted up unusually tight...
So methinks that something smells a bit rotten in their explanation...

[docdoru]

BUDS report show how many minutes if it did even over rev.

Ask service for a copy of the BUDS RPM report:

[hackett43]

I somehow managed to find the rev limiter in my RT at the end of last week. That motor never went over 9000 rpm; even though I had it's tail twisted up unusually tight...
So methinks that something smells a bit rotten in their explanation...

Well there is something rotten, They first asked for pictures and after they review them, They asked my dealer for the BUDS report. Oh yeah, My dealer said that he couldn't access the information for rpm thru BUDS. BRP had no intention on covering repairs from the start. IMO

[hackett43]

Ask service for a copy of the BUDS RPM report:

I will ask for it, Thanks.

[docdoru]

Wow, not sure how I missed this either.... I bet Doc doesnt agree with this....
and, "suspect mods" are ....?

I know, I know...
However, did one asked why BRP doesn't make a "black list"of mods? Instead they rule warranty "case by case"?

[motoford]

Well there is something rotten, They first asked for pictures and after they review them, They asked my dealer for the BUDS report. Oh yeah, My dealer said that he couldn't access the information for rpm thru BUDS. BRP had no intention on covering repairs from the start. IMO

I think BRP has done you a great service by saying the engine blew due to overrevs. Because now it's obviously not your mod that caused it, but the failure of their factory installed rev limiter.

[docdoru]

Oh yeah, My dealer said that he couldn't access the information for rpm thru BUDS.

Really?!?

[Bob Denman]

They probably have some other bullets to break out for this battle; but this one is just too weak for words...

[hackett43]

They probably have some other bullets to break out for this battle; but this one is just too weak for words...

If they do, There not talking. I called them back to confirm what i was told and what my dealer was told. So the Senior Rep told me that she would have the technician call my
dealer and explain it to him again, So there wouldn't be any misunderstanding or miscommunication because she was not a technical person. When i talked with my dealer he said that the technician didn't tell him anything different.

[Jeriatric]

I know, I know...
However, did one asked why BRP doesn't make a "black list"of mods? Instead they rule warranty "case by case"?

Now you're talking

[shelbydave]

If BRP is saying that the engine was over revved, Is there something in the Fuel Management add-on that may modify, or overrule the rev limiter?

I've only skimmed the whole thread, but it seems like the cause of the breakdown has changed? First it was the mod, now it is over revving the engine?

I'm with Firefly on this... With the Magnusen Moss Warranty Act, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that the aftermarket part caused the breakdown. That's regardless of how the warranty is written.

The only thing I can't determine if the above applies to only full warranties, or includes limited warranties.

[docdoru]

Is there something in the Fuel Management add-on that may modify, or overrule the rev limiter?

If there is an overrule rev limiter mod, I want it!

[boborgera]

If there is an overrule rev limiter mod, I want it!

It seems acording to BRP the OP found it.