Engine Locked Down, BRP Want Cover Under Warranty

[SpyderFun]

.. The would also have to prove those claims directly caused the issue.

True but only if legally challenged and are required by the court to do so in order to defend a challenge of their warranty language. Remember BRP is the kid with the ball (your warranty) and if he doesn't want to play he will take his ball and leave you on your own to play/pay. Flipside is eventually no one will want to play with them..... its called Customer Service and you either provide good service or you don't.

[Bob Denman]

Let's face it; If you change something and your World falls to , you'd better make sure that everything is changed back to the same condtion that the Spyder was in before you took the keys from the smiling salesperson...

[bcoulter19]

The funny thing is I know people where I grew up that would do that to a spyder if they thought of it.

[hackett43]

I want to try and clear up a few things here, First of all i am not a mechanic. I have on a lot of bikes and most of them were used and did'nt have a warranty. I have on 3 brand new bikes that i had a warranty and the other 2 had no problems. My spyder is the first bike that i ever had issues from a new bike. When i made this post i was pisted, But i was hoping that this info. would help some other member not go down the same road as i have, But i was wrong seems like everbody here already new the do's and dont's with warranty. Shame on me, I never was looking for anyone to run to my defense. I am not trying to bash BRP either, But there is room for improvement on there end. If i would have throughly read my warranty like i should have, I would never had put any accesory at all on my bike not even a pipe. Thats my fault. BRP warranty is so vague that they can void your warranty for just about anything at there discretion. IN MY 2009 manual i read that BRP can void your warranty if they feel that your spyder was not properly mantenaced. To void my warranty without even checking the bike at all, Do yall really think thats fare ? I love my spyder, Will i by another one ? I'm planning on it, I have nothing against the spyder but issues with BRP. Some of you are saying that my dealer thru me under the bus, Well maybe so but he told me he could'nt lie and i respect him for that and i am not mad at him. He is the owner of the shop and he has never done nothing but help me over the years. I did'nt buy this bike from because he did'nt have any units in, Every time he contacted BRP on delivery dates they changed form month to month and he did'nt bash me because i did'nt buy form he knew i wanted to have a bike for the summer. But he is thankful because i have sent him 6 customers and all of them purchased spyders. I live in a small town, We have 1 dealer that sells new bikes. The next can am dealer is 75 miles away.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Hey Bob, my guess is you were using a Telephoto lens of some good Power because you didn't set any Land Mines Off.......Mike

[spyder3]

hackett...no worries man. Hopefully you get things worked out.

[Dwanton]

What is the update as of now ?

Did they break down the motor and see where the problem was ?

Whats it gonna cost to repair it if they can ?

Whats a new motor cost ?

If the 2013 has a new bigger more horsepower motor , can you buy that and put it in yours ?

[Dtryke]

This is a good site for info... And a lot of folks here love to help. People have given me home phone numbers to call and chat when I had a question. But there are some on this site that seem to enjoy offering their opinion on stuff just to join in.... keep using the site for what works... Service videos on how to do stuff, recent tech updates, stuff for sale. Help others when you can - and try not to get sucked into the "chaff".

I've bought parts, sold them, given them away last Christmas as part of a "pay it forward" thread, been mailed Maintenance manuals for free due to nice people, spoke with Lamont directly with a question....

Please don't let a "runaway thread" drive you away either from reading or posting!!

Please also PM me to let me know what happens.

Regards

Dave

I want to try and clear up a few things here, First of all i am not a mechanic. I have on a lot of bikes and most of them were used and did'nt have a warranty. I have on 3 brand new bikes that i had a warranty and the other 2 had no problems. My spyder is the first bike that i ever had issues from a new bike. When i made this post i was pisted, But i was hoping that this info. would help some other member not go down the same road as i have, But i was wrong seems like everbody here already new the do's and dont's with warranty. Shame on me, I never was looking for anyone to run to my defense. I am not trying to bash BRP either, But there is room for improvement on there end. If i would have throughly read my warranty like i should have, I would never had put any accesory at all on my bike not even a pipe. Thats my fault. BRP warranty is so vague that they can void your warranty for just about anything at there discretion. IN MY 2009 manual i read that BRP can void your warranty if they feel that your spyder was not properly mantenaced. To void my warranty without even checking the bike at all, Do yall really think thats fare ? I love my spyder, Will i by another one ? I'm planning on it, I have nothing against the spyder but issues with BRP. Some of you are saying that my dealer thru me under the bus, Well maybe so but he told me he could'nt lie and i respect him for that and i am not mad at him. He is the owner of the shop and he has never done nothing but help me over the years. I did'nt buy this bike from because he did'nt have any units in, Every time he contacted BRP on delivery dates they changed form month to month and he did'nt bash me because i did'nt buy form he knew i wanted to have a bike for the summer. But he is thankful because i have sent him 6 customers and all of them purchased spyders. I live in a small town, We have 1 dealer that sells new bikes. The next can am dealer is 75 miles away.

[hackett43]

What is the update as of now ?

Did they break down the motor and see where the problem was ?

Whats it gonna cost to repair it if they can ?

Whats a new motor cost ?

If the 2013 has a new bigger more horsepower motor , can you buy that and put it in yours ?

Well as of Thursday, BRP refuse to authorize my dealer to breakdown and determine what the problem cause my engine to lock down. They said even if my dealer determine it was caused by something other than the fuel controller, They still want cover under warranty. I faxed them some infomation Thursday afternoon to a guy up there named Nick. I'm waiting on him to respond back. Oh yeah i forgot to mention that the owner of the dealership seen metal shavings in the oil. ( He is personally working on my bike ). A new engine will be, $8400.00.
He did'nt give a figure on a rebuild. This is to the experienced mechanics on her, By dealer finding metal in the oil any idea what could cause this ? Owner said seem to him to be bottom end damage.

[hackett43]

This is a good site for info... And a lot of folks here love to help. People have given me home phone numbers to call and chat when I had a question. But there are some on this site that seem to enjoy offering their opinion on stuff just to join in.... keep using the site for what works... Service videos on how to do stuff, recent tech updates, stuff for sale. Help others when you can - and try not to get sucked into the "chaff".

I've bought parts, sold them, given them away last Christmas as part of a "pay it forward" thread, been mailed Maintenance manuals for free due to nice people, spoke with Lamont directly with a question....

Please don't let a "runaway thread" drive you away either from reading or posting!!

Please also PM me to let me know what happens.

Regards

Dave

Thanks Dave, You will be the first to know of any changes. I'm not gonna let negative comments run me off this site. I LOVE YOU GUYS AND ALL THE GOOD INFORMATION YOU HAVE PROVIDE HERE !

[vrodrjs]

Metal shavings. In the oil is caused by not enough oil where it needs to be. A small amount is normal if the trans and the rest of the bottom end share the same oil, on my vrod anyway. A lean condition, that causes a motor to lock up, is pretty easy to figure out, pull the plugs and look at them. If they are still intact, electrodes look good, I would be very surprised if it was the fuel controller that caused the problem. Just my 2 cents

[Bob Denman]

I'm no mechanic; more of an "antimechanic" I think, but still...

[cyclelover63]

It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer).

I think I have seen other people post on this FORUM they would not contemplate major MODS before the warranty runs out. Technically, any MODS might violate the agreement with the manufacturer. So he is behind the 8-ball to begin with based upon what he signed. The one fact no one is disputing is: he made MODS that affected the mechanical operation of his Spyder. That is not adding L.E.D.s to your Spyder.

P.S. If they can agree on doing the diagnosis with the customer paying the costs if the MODS may have contributed to his problem, I would get him to pay the estimate upfront. Just remember, my words are "may have contributed to his problem". They do not have to prove beyond a doubt his MODS didn't cause the problem - they are not responsible for figuring that out for him. He has to make his own case. He made the MODS not them.

..I work at a Dodge
dealership and have seen over fueling issues with controllers on the Cummins Diesels...Causes pistons to seize and cause all sorts of damage..Believe me,the manufacturer can decline warranty..But,it need dis-assembled first at customers possible expense as so eloquently stated above..

[hackett43]

It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer).

I think I have seen other people post on this FORUM they would not contemplate major MODS before the warranty runs out. Technically, any MODS might violate the agreement with the manufacturer. So he is behind the 8-ball to begin with based upon what he signed. The one fact no one is disputing is: he made MODS that affected the mechanical operation of his Spyder. That is not adding L.E.D.s to your Spyder.

P.S. If they can agree on doing the diagnosis with the customer paying the costs if the MODS may have contributed to his problem, I would get him to pay the estimate upfront. Just remember, my words are "may have contributed to his problem". They do not have to prove beyond a doubt his MODS didn't cause the problem - they are not responsible for figuring that out for him. He has to make his own case. He made the MODS not them.

..I work at a Dodge
dealership and have seen over fueling issues with controllers on the Cummins Diesels...Causes pistons to seize and cause all sorts of damage..Believe me,the manufacturer can decline warranty..But,it need dis-assembled first at customers possible expense as so eloquently stated above..

Thanks for the feed back but, Mods are mods not matter how you look at it by BRP definition it voids warranty. Ok let me pit it this way, You by a head light bulb 2 weeks later your electrical system fry, you take it to your dealer and he says ok this is a repair that must be approve by BRP. So they called to get the diagnostic approve and BRP says, Is there a super white bulb installed and the dealer says yes. So BRP says we are not going to cover it because customer has that unapproved bulb installed. Dealer calls customer and informs he/she of what has been communicated from BRP. Customer calls BRP and BRP tells them that it does'nt matter if something else caused the damage or not . YOU HAD AN AFTER MARKET COMPONENT ON YOUR SPYDER AND WE STAND BEHIND OUR DECISION. So what would you do ? So tell me if you think i am wrong fof challenging them. I want the feed back good or bad, I can handle it. The mods i did is because of info i got here. So bring it on !

[hackett43]

It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer).

I think I have seen other people post on this FORUM they would not contemplate major MODS before the warranty runs out. Technically, any MODS might violate the agreement with the manufacturer. So he is behind the 8-ball to begin with based upon what he signed. The one fact no one is disputing is: he made MODS that affected the mechanical operation of his Spyder. That is not adding L.E.D.s to your Spyder.

P.S. If they can agree on doing the diagnosis with the customer paying the costs if the MODS may have contributed to his problem, I would get him to pay the estimate upfront. Just remember, my words are "may have contributed to his problem". They do not have to prove beyond a doubt his MODS didn't cause the problem - they are not responsible for figuring that out for him. He has to make his own case. He made the MODS not them.

..I work at a Dodge
dealership and have seen over fueling issues with controllers on the Cummins Diesels...Causes pistons to seize and cause all sorts of damage..Believe me,the manufacturer can decline warranty..But,it need dis-assembled first at customers possible expense as so eloquently stated above..

So during your time at dodge, When you had seized pistons, Did they have metal in the oil and botton end damage ? So what is a major mod ? First of as i have stated before i am not a mechanic, But to me a major mod would be making changes to internal components. please correct me if i'm wrong.

[SpyderFun]

Thanks for the feed back but, Mods are mods not matter how you look at it by BRP definition it voids warranty. Ok let me pit it this way, You by a head light bulb 2 weeks later your electrical system fry, you take it to your dealer and he says ok this is a repair that must be approve by BRP. So they called to get the diagnostic approve and BRP says, Is there a super white bulb installed and the dealer says yes. So BRP says we are not going to cover it because customer has that unapproved bulb installed. Dealer calls customer and informs he/she of what has been communicated from BRP. Customer calls BRP and BRP tells them that it does'nt matter if something else caused the damage or not . YOU HAD AN AFTER MARKET COMPONENT ON YOUR SPYDER AND WE STAND BEHIND OUR DECISION. So what would you do ? So tell me if you think i am wrong fof challenging them. I want the feed back good or bad, I can handle it. The mods i did is because of info i got here. So bring it on !

Decals and paint are all 100% after market - True? I wonder if BRP would cover an engine related issue with these "un-authorized modifications" installed? Truth is BRP can deny every single warranty claim until forced thru litigation to do otherwise. Doing so would sour their reputation in the motorcycle community and their sales would reflect such an unpopular act. Customer Service is exactly that - CUSTOMER SERVICE. All manufacturers have a certain level of responsibility to the consumer regardless of what their "warranty agreement" states. Seems dangerous for any mfg to deny any warranty claim that they cannot directly point to a mod as the sole cause - especially if a counter claim can prove that the mod had noting to do with their product being defective.

Just my 2-cents....

[hackett43]

Decals and paint are all 100% after market - True? I wonder if BRP would cover an engine related issue with these "un-authorized modifications" installed? Truth is BRP can deny every single warranty claim until forced thru litigation to do otherwise. Doing so would sour their reputation in the motorcycle community and their sales would reflect such an unpopular act. Customer Service is exactly that - CUSTOMER SERVICE. All manufacturers have a certain level of responsibility to the consumer regardless of what their "warranty agreement" states. Seems dangerous for any mfg to deny any warranty claim that they cannot directly point to a mod as the sole cause - especially if a counter claim can prove that the mod had noting to do with their product being defective.

Just my 2-cents....

Exactly, Thats my point. They can pretty much void our warranty for just about anything, Even a simple Bulb. If you look at it this way , The only mods that we can put on our spyders is the ones that they manufactur or approve. Basically they can monoplynise (forgive my splelling) on after market parts if they dem too. So if we know our warranty could be voided than some us well not buy aftermarket parts, Which would hurt businesses who sell these parts to us. Is that fair ? We should'nt have to wait until our warranty expires to buy a 2 brothers pipe instead of a Hindle. Don't get me wrong, If someone is doing shade tree mods, than thats a whole different ball game. In my opion if we are installing mods from reputable companies we should'nt be penalized. Just my opinion only.

[r1100rider]

So during your time at dodge, When you had seized pistons, Did they have metal in the oil and botton end damage ? So what is a major mod ? First of as i have stated before i am not a mechanic, But to me a major mod would be making changes to internal components. please correct me if i'm wrong.

Yes anything is possible if the motor leaned out burnt a piston then stuck to the cylinder or stuck a valve open and the other cylinder was still pushing it then all kinds of parts. could have broke from con rods to gears in the tranny , bottom line here is you have a broke Spyder that needs fixed no one is going to be able to fix it with a computer key board buck up take it apart take a lot of pic's then fight your fight if you have an argument you said you still want a Spyder so if a whole motor is 8000 then you can find a good running used one close to that and part out yours you may get lucky and find just a scuffed. Cylinder and a small rebuild will have you on the road , you lite bulb argument doesnt hold water because there is A fuse to protect the electrical system this. Fuel controler is a china build computer chip that fools with the factory brain to change fuel mapping you seem to be enjoying the brp bashing here just take it apart and move on you are making everything look worse than it may really be fuel modifiers are chips car motorcycles and computer chips all crash sometimemes

[DLewis]

I feel for you Hackett43. I have been wanting to know why I have never met you while riding, and now I see why. Hopefully, everything will get straightened out and you'll be back on the road. (hope not at your expense) Performance will git'er done, and then maybe we can use this as a learning experience. Keep your head up, and hope to see you on the road soon!

[hackett43]

Yes anything is possible if the motor leaned out burnt a piston then stuck to the cylinder or stuck a valve open and the other cylinder was still pushing it then all kinds of parts. could have broke from con rods to gears in the tranny , bottom line here is you have a broke Spyder that needs fixed no one is going to be able to fix it with a computer key board buck up take it apart take a lot of pic's then fight your fight if you have an argument you said you still want a Spyder so if a whole motor is 8000 then you can find a good running used one close to that and part out yours you may get lucky and find just a scuffed. Cylinder and a small rebuild will have you on the road , you lite bulb argument doesnt hold water because there is A fuse to protect the electrical system this. Fuel controler is a china build computer chip that fools with the factory brain to change fuel mapping you seem to be enjoying the brp bashing here just take it apart and move on you are making everything look worse than it may really be fuel modifiers are chips car motorcycles and computer chips all crash sometimemes

Thanks for your input, No its not about bashing BRP, i'm trying to get an understanding of the mechanics of this machine. Brp wouldn't give me any explanation or reason why the controller would have cause this. I mean, They could have said there have been numerous spyders that this has occurred to with Two Brothers controllers on them, But i guess thats there right and i don't have any . So i ask you this, If you were in the same situation that i am in and you had a 2 Brothers controller on it, Would you have taken it off before you took it in to the shop or left it on knowing it would void your warranty ?

[hackett43]

I feel for you Hackett43. I have been wanting to know why I have never met you while riding, and now I see why. Hopefully, everything will get straightened out and you'll be back on the road. (hope not at your expense) Performance will git'er done, and then maybe we can use this as a learning experience. Keep your head up, and hope to see you on the road soon!

Hey Darrell, I heard you had a spyder and i have been looking forward to riding with you. Well you see that want happen no time soon. Glad you found me .

[hackett43]

Yes anything is possible if the motor leaned out burnt a piston then stuck to the cylinder or stuck a valve open and the other cylinder was still pushing it then all kinds of parts. could have broke from con rods to gears in the tranny , bottom line here is you have a broke Spyder that needs fixed no one is going to be able to fix it with a computer key board buck up take it apart take a lot of pic's then fight your fight if you have an argument you said you still want a Spyder so if a whole motor is 8000 then you can find a good running used one close to that and part out yours you may get lucky and find just a scuffed. Cylinder and a small rebuild will have you on the road , you lite bulb argument doesnt hold water because there is A fuse to protect the electrical system this. Fuel controler is a china build computer chip that fools with the factory brain to change fuel mapping you seem to be enjoying the brp bashing here just take it apart and move on you are making everything look worse than it may really be fuel modifiers are chips car motorcycles and computer chips all crash sometimemes

Oh yeah, The light bulb scenereo was just an example, You say it doesn't hold water and thats your opinion. But in my manual under the warranty section if it was not a BRP approve Bulb, exhaust,tire, etc. it is grounds to void warranty. But it does not specify what brand or type is approved or disapproved. Now my manual is for 09 spyder.

[r1100rider]

Thanks for your input, No its not about bashing BRP, i'm trying to get an understanding of the mechanics of this machine. Brp wouldn't give me any explanation or reason why the controller would have cause this. I mean, They could have said there have been numerous spyders that this has occurred to with Two Brothers controllers on them, But i guess thats there right and i don't have any . So i ask you this, If you were in the same situation that i am in and you had a 2 Brothers controller on it, Would you have taken it off before you took it in to the shop or left it on knowing it would void your warranty ?

Yes I would have removed the controler hope you have a better understanding of this machine now , yes it could have caused this , and messing with this type of thing is boarder line shade tree stuff if there was 10 or 20% easy reliable and warrenteyable HP inside the motor do you really think that rotax wouldn't use it a couple bro's most likely know less about a 990 rotax than the company who spend millions dynoing and testing it

[hackett43]

Yes I would have removed the controler hope you have a better understanding of this machine now , yes it could have caused this , and messing with this type of thing is boarder line shade tree stuff if there was 10 or 20% easy reliable and warrenteyable HP inside the motor do you really think that rotax wouldn't use it a couple bro's most likely know less about a 990 rotax than the company who spend millions dynoing and testing it

That's what i thought you would say, So by you removing the controller doesn't make you any different from me . You wouldn't want to spend the money either, But you accused me of bashing BRP and it's ok to just hide your sins by removing something that maybe caused the problem. So if you are so loyal to BRP and willing to defend them, Than why would you deceive them or even cheat them by doing this ? . huuum ! Good night, I rest my case !

[r1100rider]

That's what i thought you would say, So by you removing the controller doesn't make you any different from me . You wouldn't want to spend the money either, But you accused me of bashing BRP and it's ok to just hide your sins by removing something that maybe caused the problem. So if you are so loyal to BRP and willing to defend them, Than why would you deceive them or even cheat them by doing this ? . huuum ! Good night, I rest my case !

First of all I wouldn't try to put the controller on in the first place so that does make us different no controller no problem second a bulb is a replacement part a fuel modifer is a modification your the one that ask if you should have takin off the mod I said you should If you wanted. Coverage I wouldn't put the mod on in the first place I've learned this lesson years ago on cars and dirt. Bikes you mite gain a few HP at redline but then you give up low end or midrange or it runs hotter or it melts down you need to just face up to the fact BRP has a disclaimer and good reason that they can't control all the varibles the aftermarket tweekers can throw at it your the one whine ing about no warranty coverage