Engine Locked Down, BRP Want Cover Under Warranty

[SpyderFun]

....It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer)...

Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

1st, If a product is under warranty it is from the manufacturer (BRP) not necessarily the dealer. The manufacturer (not dealer) MUST honor their own warranty. To that end, ANY authorized dealer that can do the work should. They then are reimbursed by BRP for honoring THEIR warranty - NOT a dealer specific warranty.

2nd, The problem is that it is NOT clear it is the owners fault because no individual can specifically point to and say, "It failed because your unauthorized modification caused this component right here to fail due to _______". Simply saying it failed because a mod was done clearly fails to show proof the mod was the culprit of the failure or premature failure.

3rd, Regardless of WHERE or WHO you bought your BRP product from, BRP authorizes their dealers to act as their agent to explain and endorse their warranty(s) upon purchase. Any dealer saying they refuse to do warranty work on a BRP product they didn't sell you seems to me that they do more harm to the name "BRP" than good. Not having a qualified tech or tools to repair products they advertise they work on is false advertising and should be reported to both BRP and your local BBB.

4th, If the failure is found to be the result of said unauthorized mod, then it by definition is NOT a warranty issue and becomes the financial responsibility of the owner.

NOTE: BRP does not offer a back rest for people who need it due to having a physical disability. Modifying your seat at the owners expense (i.e. a Corbin or cutting into the BRP seat to install a back rest), is a mod that is a reasonable accommodation that could be argued under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and would not void the remaining manufacturer warranty.

[boborgera]

[QUOTE=Dudley;472797] The dealer may have installed the mods you had done, but that doesn't put them on any blame...you wanted it done, they did it, and you paid them.
QUOTE]

As the Lawyers always say ''Not necessarily so''
The dealer is the ''expert'' [in the eyes of the law] And if the customer wants something installed or removed like a cat which is illegal it is his duty to refuse to do it, So if he doesn't refuse and something gos wrong the dealer will then be on the hook!!

[d.o.spyder-rts]

Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

1st, If a product is under warranty it is from the manufacturer (BRP) not necessarily the dealer. The manufacturer (not dealer) MUST honor their own warranty. To that end, ANY authorized dealer that can do the work should. They then are reimbursed by BRP for honoring THEIR warranty - NOT a dealer specific warranty.

2nd, The problem is that it is NOT clear it is the owners fault because no individual can specifically point to and say, "It failed because your unauthorized modification caused this component right here to fail due to _______". Simply saying it failed because a mod was done clearly fails to show proof the mod was the culprit of the failure or premature failure.

3rd, Regardless of WHERE or WHO you bought your BRP product from, BRP authorizes their dealers to act as their agent to explain and endorse their warranty(s) upon purchase. Any dealer saying they refuse to do warranty work on a BRP product they didn't sell you seems to me that they do more harm to the name "BRP" than good. Not having a qualified tech or tools to repair products they advertise they work on is false advertising and should be reported to both BRP and your local BBB.

4th, If the failure is found to be the result of said unauthorized mod, then it by definition is NOT a warranty issue and becomes the financial responsibility of the owner.

NOTE: BRP does not offer a back rest for people who need it due to having a physical disability. Modifying your seat at the owners expense (i.e. a Corbin or cutting into the BRP seat to install a back rest), is a mod that is a reasonable accommodation that could be argued under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and would not void the remaining manufacturer warranty.

Dale

[texasride]

What law each state is diff I bet.

[arntufun]

A lot of BRP Kool aid drinkers in here.

[powerbyaj]

A lot of BRP Kool aid drinkers in here.

I love Kool Aid so much i took the wagon to Cabo San Lucas Mexico and back...Grape was my favorite on the way down below.

[Knarfoh]

Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

1st, If a product is under warranty it is from the manufacturer (BRP) not necessarily the dealer. The manufacturer (not dealer) MUST honor their own warranty. To that end, ANY authorized dealer that can do the work should. They then are reimbursed by BRP for honoring THEIR warranty - NOT a dealer specific warranty. RESPONSE: THE POINT IS, THE MANUFACTURER SAYS IT IS NOT UNDER WARRANTY. WHATEVER WARRANTY HE HAD WAS VOIDED BY HIS MODS. YOU ARE USING A CIRCULAR ARGUMENT. YOU ARE SUGGESTING THERE IS A WARRANTY UNLESS THEY CAN PROVE THE MOD IS RESPONSIBLE. THEY ARE INVOKING THE LANGUAGE IN THEIR WARRANTY THAT VOIDS WARRANTY COVERAGE IF THERE WERE MODS PERFORMED ON THE SPYDER. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE IT ANY FURTHER THEN THAT BASED UPON AN AGREED FACT: THE ENGINE WAS MODIFIED.

2nd, The problem is that it is NOT clear it is the owners fault because no individual can specifically point to and say, "It failed because your unauthorized modification caused this component right here to fail due to _______". Simply saying it failed because a mod was done clearly fails to show proof the mod was the culprit of the failure or premature failure. RESPONSE: APPARENTLY THERE IS A COMMON BELIEF THAT THE MANUFACTURER MUST DO MORE THEN THEY HAVE DONE IN THIS CASE. THE POLICY SAYS "MODS VOID THE WARRANTY". END OF STORY. BASED UPON THEIR POSITION, THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO TRY TO DETERMINE THE CAUSE OF HIS PROBLEM. THE ONE FACT WE ARE ALL AGREEING ON (MANUFACTURER, SPYDER OWNER, YOU & I) IS HE HAD MODS INSTALLED ON HIS SPYDER. WE ALL AGREE ON THAT. SOME OF US ARE OF THE OPINION IT IS THE MANUFACTURER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE IF THOSE MODS CAUSED AND/OR CONTRIBUTED TO THE PROBLEM. I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST THEY ARE UNDER NO RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SO. IF THE SPYDER OWNER WANTS TO HIRE HIS OWN ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS TO CONTRADICT THE EFFECTS OF HIS MODS, HE IS FREE TO DO SO. BUT WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE OF THE OPINION THE MANUFACTURER DO THIS ON HIS BEHALF? AS I SUGGESTED EARLIER, ADDING A L.E.D. LIGHT IS A LOT DIFFERENT THEN TINKERING WITH THE MECHANICS OF THE ENGINE.

3rd, Regardless of WHERE or WHO you bought your BRP product from, BRP authorizes their dealers to act as their agent to explain and endorse their warranty(s) upon purchase. Any dealer saying they refuse to do warranty work on a BRP product they didn't sell you seems to me that they do more harm to the name "BRP" than good. Not having a qualified tech or tools to repair products they advertise they work on is false advertising and should be reported to both BRP and your local BBB. RESPONSE: FRANCHISED DEALERS MUST HONOR THEIR AGREEMENTS WITH THE MANUFACTURER, INCLUDING DOING WARRANTY WORK FOR NON-CUSTOMERS. MANY STATES HAVE MOTOR VEHICLE DEALER BOARDS. IF A DEALER IS NOT HONORING HIS OBLIGATION, THE MANUFACTURER SHOULD BE CONTACTED AS WELL AS THE DEALER BOARD. ALSO, MANY STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS HAVE A SECTION CALLED CONSUMER SALES PRACTICES WHICH MIGHT BE HELPFUL. IN REGARDS TO DEALERS HONORING WARRANTY WORK FOR NON-CUSTOMERS, MY LOCAL DEALER SELLS A TON OF MOTORCYCLES, JET SKIS, ATV'S, ETC. BECAUSE THE NATURE OF THEIR BUSINESS IS SEASONAL, GETTING HELP IN THE SPRING IS DIFFICULT. HOW DO YOU ARGUE THE DEALER IS SCREWING WITH YOU ON WARRANTY REPAIRS IF WE ARE TALKING WEEKS INSTEAD OF DAYS? WHEN I SCHEDULED MY 600 MILE SERVICE, I HAD TO WAIT 2 AND HALF WEEKS TO GET MY SPYDER IN AND I KNOW THE DEALER WASN'T SCREWING WITH ME. HE WAS JUST THAT BUSY.

4th, If the failure is found to be the result of said unauthorized mod, then it by definition is NOT a warranty issue and becomes the financial responsibility of the owner. RESPONSE: BUT IF YOU ARE PLACING THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE MANUFACTURER/DEALER TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION, I HUMBLY DISAGREE WITH YOU. THEY HAVE MADE A DETERMINATION (BASED ON ANOTHER PROVISION OF THEIR WARRANTY DOCUMENT), I.E. MODS VOID THE WARRANTY. WHY WOULD THEY GO ANY FURTHER THEN THEY HAVE? ONCE THEY START AGREEING TO MORE THEN THEY ARE LEGALLY REQUIRED, THEN THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY UNILATERALLY CHANGING THE TERMS OF THEIR WARRANTY AND WOULD BE EXPECTED TO EXTEND THAT SAME COURTESY TO EVERY SPYDER OWNER. THEY CAN'T CHANGE THEIR WARRANTY, AFTER THE FACT, TO LESSEN THE BENEFIT TO THE BUYER, BUT NOTHING PREVENTS THEM FROM EXTENDING THEIR WARRANTY COVERAGE BEYOND THE TERMS IF THEY WANT TO FOR A PARTICULAR CUSTOMER. BUT WHY WOULD THEY ASSUME THIS ADDITIONAL LIABILITY VOLUNTARILY?

NOTE: BRP does not offer a back rest for people who need it due to having a physical disability. Modifying your seat at the owners expense (i.e. a Corbin or cutting into the BRP seat to install a back rest), is a mod that is a reasonable accommodation that could be argued under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and would not void the remaining manufacturer warranty. RESPONSE: I AGREE IT WOULD BE FOOLISH FOR BRP TO TAKE THEIR POLCIES TO THE EXTREME. PENALIZING SOMEONE FOR A MOD THAT IN NO WAY COULD HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE MECHANICS OF THE SPYDER WOULD DESTROY ANY GOODWILL THEY WOULD WISH TO CULTIVATE WITH PRESENT AND FUTURE CUSTOMERS. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MECHANICAL CHANGES TO THE ENGINE. GIVING EXAMPLES (APPLES AND ORANGES COMPARISONS) IS INTERESTING, BUT DOES NOT MITIGATE THE FACT MECHANICAL CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE WAY THE ENGINE PERFORMS AND NOW THIS SPYDER OWNER IS HAVING MECHANICAL PROBLEMS.

I have a novel idea --- don't do MODS like this until the warranty expires. And when a warranty suggests MODS will void your warranty -- consider that before you make the MODS and then be prepared to accept the consequences if you do make MODS to your SPYDER.

[Knarfoh]

A lot of BRP Kool aid drinkers in here.

It is not pleasant to suggest a Spyderlover member is wrong. It is not drinking Kool Aid to disagree with a Spyderlover.

P.S. Kool Aid is the registered trademark of Kraft Foods, a wholly owned subsidiary of Kraft Brands, and is protected under the laws of the United States and many other countries which are signatories of various trademark agreements. Your use of Kool Aid is inflammatory and intended to inflict harm on those towards whom your post is directed. Kraft Brands orders you to desist and refrain from using their trademark in a defamatory and malicious manner. ALSO, IT VOIDS YOUR SPYDER WARRANTY.

Just kidding.

[spyder3]

A lot of BRP Kool aid drinkers in here.

Is this the "old" randy peeking in?

[SpyderFun]

...RESPONSE: THE POINT IS, THE MANUFACTURER SAYS IT IS NOT UNDER WARRANTY. WHATEVER WARRANTY HE HAD WAS VOIDED BY HIS MODS. YOU ARE USING A CIRCULAR ARGUMENT. YOU ARE SUGGESTING THERE IS A WARRANTY UNLESS THEY CAN PROVE THE MOD IS RESPONSIBLE. THEY ARE INVOKING THE LANGUAGE IN THEIR WARRANTY THAT VOIDS WARRANTY COVERAGE IF THERE WERE MODS PERFORMED ON THE SPYDER. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE IT ANY FURTHER THEN THAT BASED UPON AN AGREED FACT: THE ENGINE WAS MODIFIED...

Whether or not the language within the warranty voids the warranty in its entirity is a legal decision to be made by an authority higher than this forum can offer. As an example, our country debates healthcare reform and its legality as it is written. Some argue it is legal while others say not. Now the US Supreme Court will decide it for all.

My point is just because BRP says so, does not mean it is so. I am sure their legal beagles assert their warranty language is iron clad while a judge may disagree with their assertion and rule differently. Keep an open mind.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

From what I am reading hear there seems to be a lot of folks who are saying that any and all Modifications or Add-ons or Alterations to the Spyder automatically voids your Warranty...Buuuuuuuuuuuuut in looking at their personal info they have all done this and therefore voided their Warranties. What a brave bunch of people.......and Lamont better warn all the Sponsors here that the Party is over because they are all trying to VOID the Spyderlover People's Warranties................I certainly hope you all know the meaning of Sarcasm.....Mike

[Dudley]

From what I am reading hear there seems to be a lot of folks who are saying that any and all Modifications or Add-ons or Alterations to the Spyder automatically voids your Warranty...Buuuuuuuuuuuuut in looking at their personal info they have all done this and therefore voided their Warranties. What a brave bunch of people.......and Lamont better warn all the Sponsors here that the Party is over because they are all trying to VOID the Spyderlover People's Warranties................I certainly hope you all know the meaning of Sarcasim.....Mike

Point well taken, and I have to agree...a new seat, shocks, cup holder, back rest will not void a warranty. And I am one of the guiltiest ones when it comes to voiding a warranty. Those who read my posts know what I mean. But I know that if push comes to shove on an issue I may have to pay the Piper and roll on. From what I have read over the years about Spyder issues, too many times mods are added without ever checking for possible effects of the mods after installation. The Spyder is a VERY sophisticated machine that just the slightest change in electronics or mechanics can cause unknown miseries.
Bottom line, if you mod mechanics or electronics, be prepared to pay the Piper.

[boborgera]

......I certainly hope you all know the meaning of Sarcasim.....Mike

''Sarcasm'' is a body's natural defence against ''Stupid''...

[r1100rider]

I am also kind of on the ride here. The dealer and BRP should look into the repair and cover it under warranty IF it can be determined that the modifications were not the cause of the problem in the first place. The problem lies within the fact that how do they determine that?

Modifications open the door to these kinds of problems. Heck, my dealer wont even install non-BRP tires on the Spyder.

Look at this from brp s point of view they worked years to develop a safe 3 wheeler even with the lawsuit climate of the 3 wheel atvs of the past they made a fun
machine that enabled new riders and past riders that couldn't or wouldn't ride a 2 wheeled bike spending huge sums of cash to do it,So here comes these people with a chip and a lap top that think they know how to get more power by fooling the stock computer into doing things it wasn't programmed to do now there a handful of controllers several exhausts o2 modifiers RS's Rt's se's sm's sea level to 10,000 ft 20 deg to 120 deg multiply the combinations here and it adds up to dozens then dyno test and do a 100,000 mi durability test gee wonder why they don't want to stand behind a chip made in china that I'm sure a. Couple of brothers tested in the. Cold the rain heat the oil the gas the vibration of a Spyder cars,motorcycles,and computers all crash would you want to warrenty this? This guy made 3 mistakes 1 he hot rodded it 2 he should have removed the mods before he took it in3 he should have took it to the dealer he bought it from or at least one that sells a lot of spyders his didn't have any on the floor so he probably hasnt had many apart either, Last the
Magnuson law everyone is talking about is saying that if a filter or oil meets the spec's of the manufacture they. Can't deny warrenty it's not intended to cover tweaking with a laptop changing fuel mapping and such, this guy should take the money he is going to spend on lawyers and just find out what happened and or fix it
d

[Farmboy]

My 2 cents worth

The technician at that dealer sold you out because "he did not want to take all that Tupperware off"

[pellcitypete]

A class action??? Go ahead. You got a few suggestions that you should seek another dealer and work from there. You keep going back to one that can't or won't fix the problem. Seems like what you want to hear is that we will all sign on the class action with you....WRONG!

I bet that if you paid $30,000 and couldn't ride it you would be saying something else!

[Dudley]

I bet that if you paid $30,000 and couldn't ride it you would be saying something else!

Pete, take a chill pill, will you. You don't know what I have invested in my Spyder. I just don't keep beating a dead horse. I have had a few issues with the RT, but all the problems were fixed in time. I didn't go spewing all over SL to bash my dealer or BRP. Problems are what they are...some take longer than others to fix and the approach we have as riders has a lot to do with how the dealer or BRP approaches our solutions. I cannot say what your approach has been, but if it was anything like your ranting on SL you're on the loosing end. PERIOD!

[Bob Denman]

So how much tire pressure should I be running up front?
What oil is the best one to use with the lowest possible octane?
My feet hurt; can I sue BRP for that?

[SpyderFun]

So how much tire pressure should I be running up front?
ANSWER: Between the approved limits.

What oil is the best one to use with the lowest possible octane?
ANSWER 1: The approved oil.
ANSWER 2: No octane lower than what is approved.

My feet hurt; can I sue BRP for that?
ANSWER: No. Have your wife rub your feet.

Sorry Bob I couldn't resist!

[Bob Denman]

[spyder3]

I would say cut Pete some slack. Frustration has a way with making people blurt things out. BRP has a way of causing this frustration also, as we have seen too many times before. This board has been quite crazy this week with more BS than normal. I guess while the cats away, the mice will play.

[Willo]

To expand on this question I would like to ask for the opinion of the group. Will the installation of the, 'Can AM Spyder RT Radiator Block off Plate' void the warranty? This modification is not directly a modification to the engine but it could have an effect on the engine. Comments Please, as I have ordered the parts to make this modification.

[spyder3]

To expand on this question I would like to ask for the opinion of the group. Will the installation of the, 'Can AM Spyder RT Radiator Block off Plate' void the warranty? This modification is not directly a modification to the engine but it could have an effect on the engine. Comments Please, as I have ordered the parts to make this modification.

They can make whatever claims they want and they sure will. The would also have to prove those claims directly caused the issue.

[hackett43]

To expand on this question I would like to ask for the opinion of the group. Will the installation of the, 'Can AM Spyder RT Radiator Block off Plate' void the warranty? This modification is not directly a modification to the engine but it could have an effect on the engine. Comments Please, as I have ordered the parts to make this modification.

According to my manuel it will, pretty much any mod voids it.

[SpyderFun]

To expand on this question I would like to ask for the opinion of the group. Will the installation of the, 'Can AM Spyder RT Radiator Block off Plate' void the warranty? This modification is not directly a modification to the engine but it could have an effect on the engine. Comments Please, as I have ordered the parts to make this modification.

This question can ONLY be answered by BRP because they decide how to enforce the language of their warranty of what they consider an "unapproved modification". But the block off plate can be easily removed BEFORE taking your ride to the dealer for service work.

I agree with you in that it is not a direct modification to the engine but does have a direct effect on it. I would further add that it is however a modification to the "engine cooling system" given a specific volume of airflow over the radiator has been designed and approved by BRP and "altering" that design cooling process is an "unauthorized modification". BUT, I would counter argue that as long as the engine temp remains within approved specs that such an alteration would fail to cause damage and thus would be an "approved modification". Just my humble opinion.

For me personally, BRP has designed a good product with inherent flaws that were unlikely known at the time of conception and production. To that end, BRP is likely aware of these flaws given comments on this, and other, website(s) along with post-production "fixes" that are for sale. It would go along way if BRP could give us owners a guideline of what would be considered a modification or alteration that would void their warranty and what would not. Their doing this is unlikely given knowledge is power and they want the power to say "Warranty Voided".