no more evo swaybar

[coz]

since evo swaybars are no longer available, is it possible, or even worth it, to modify the stock swaybar to stiffen it up. i think one of you hot rodders or engineers would know how to do this.

[BajaRon]

since evo swaybars are no longer available, is it possible, or even worth it, to modify the stock swaybar to stiffen it up. i think one of you hot rodders or engineers would know how to do this.

Not an engineer but I would say definitely no. There is a lot that goes into a sway bar that you would be upsetting by trying to modify it. I am sure you would be sorry if you did.

[arntufun]

I'm sick to my stomach knowing I had several chances to purchase one and past on it, thinking I would just add it later.

[mrb]

since evo swaybars are no longer available, is it possible, or even worth it, to modify the stock swaybar to stiffen it up. i think one of you hot rodders or engineers would know how to do this.

I still have some in stock (mostly RS ones) if anyone wants one. When they are gone they are gone. Email me directly if you are interested. martin@spyderryders.net.au

[SPYD1]

I'm sick to my stomach knowing I had several chances to purchase one and past on it, thinking I would just add it later.

I sent you a PM...

[NancysToy]

since evo swaybars are no longer available, is it possible, or even worth it, to modify the stock swaybar to stiffen it up. i think one of you hot rodders or engineers would know how to do this.

Not an engineer but I would say definitely no. There is a lot that goes into a sway bar that you would be upsetting by trying to modify it. I am sure you would be sorry if you did.

I agree, Ron. All the brains and ingenuity in the world will not change the metallurgy of the parts, or make them magically bigger or stiffer. If someone else feels there is a strong market, they will manufacture a sway bar. This isn't easy or cheap, and it is hard to get your investment back with a limited market like the Spyder. I wouldn't hold my breath.

[SPYD1]

The caviat is the liability...as well. Unfortunately.

[AMTJIM]

The scene has died down quite a bit, but a tuner shop for those rice burner autos have all kinds of stuff, they may be able to help. A minor upgrade to what you have could be the rubber inserts for springs, several auto shops sell those, usually in the 4x4 area.

[dannymax]

I find it difficult to cut a nice smooth arc in the sharper corners, seems like I'm constantly making corrections....would a sway bar help with this?

[BajaRon]

When I raced sports cars and I wanted to control the body lean there were no stiffer sways bars. I had to get them made. You may find a Speed Shop that can help you find one or get one made. Putting a modfied swaybar will not work with the VSS and make the Spyder more likely to roll or flip over. That's IMHO.


Mike

Not sure what you mean here (your quote in bold above) as the EVO sway bar is a huge improvement to the Spyder and doesn't mess with the VSS (except that it doesn't kick in as soon), which I suppose may be your point. But the VSS doesn't kick in as soon because it is not needed as soon. The VSS parameters have not changed, only that the Spyder can now be operated safely in expanded conditions.

I think the EVO sway bar makes the Spyder a safer ride. It stabalizes the front end (where all your control is), reduces lean and gives you more control and a much better apex and departure in turns. The harder the turn, the more good the sway bar does. Without the sway bar, you lean excessively going into the turn, then you have to adjust for oversteer, lean is reduced which reduces oversteer and you start the cycle over again. Granted, this will happen more to an aggressive rider. But still, there are times when any rider will come into a corner too hot and then you'll wish you had a stiffer sway bar.

My comment about danger was in response to the original question of modifying the stock sway bar. And like Scotty said, there isn't any practical way to stiffen a stock sway bar without disrupting the metallurgy.

A Sway Bar is simply a large spring which resists torsion (rather than compression like a shock spring). Everything about a sway bar is precisely engineered from the metal compound, to diameter, to the mounting points and bends. Mess with any aspect and you're looking for trouble.

[MMcc]

I purchased one from ebay for my 2011 RT-S. I installed it and it made a slight difference. Tried it on my friends 2010 RT and there was a big difference. He just ordered Elka's for his so does not need the sway bar. I would be willing to sell it if anyone is interested. $125 includes shipping.

[Bob Denman]

I'm sick to my stomach knowing I had several chances to purchase one and past on it, thinking I would just add it later.

Randy,
You'd best get in touch with "Mrb" quickly... You must have a birthday or something coming up pretty soon!

[pro10is]

I wouldn't try to modify the OEM but the EVO swaybar can easily be duplicated in a properly equipped model shop. It's just a piece of specific stock steel bar bent in a pattern and flattened at both ends where a couple of holes are drilled. The stock parts are worth about $25. An experienced machinist or even a tool operator with the right equipment could do it easily. It's really low tech. There are also a thousand shops in Taiwan who could replicate them to the exact original design specifications with ridiculous ease. My guess is that EVO had them made there or in China anyway judging by the finish quality. I don't know if EVO had a patent on it. If they didn't then anyone could copy them legally. If they did then perhaps EVO would be willing to sell or even give out the rights if they're really out of business. Someone in the Spyder parts fab business like Kewlmetal should look into this. Seems like the demand for the RS swaybar is still strong. And perhaps a better, more effective RT swaybar could be fabricated as well.

[Bob Denman]

Question:
Doesn't the type of steel used need to be pretty specific to get the right rigidity??
I don't know anything at all about these kinds of things... more ignorance than usual even!
It just seems to my feeble mind that you'd best make darn good and sure that whatever material you're working with will do what you want when the torsional load is put on it...
So how do you get the right material??

[BajaRon]

I purchased one from ebay for my 2011 RT-S. I installed it and it made a slight difference. Tried it on my friends 2010 RT and there was a big difference. He just ordered Elka's for his so does not need the sway bar. I would be willing to sell it if anyone is interested. $125 includes shipping.

I have always been a bit confused by people saying if you upgrade the shocks you don't need the sway bar upgrade. That's like saying I've got apples so I don't need oranges.

Shocks and sway bar work together to improve suspension response and handling. They do 2 completely different jobs in 2 completely different ways.

Granted, if you have Elka's the improvement from a sway bar upgrade will not be as noticable, and vise-versa. But having both is definitely the best way to go.

Shocks work independently. Each shock spring pushing down on its respective wheel with the same force when going straight. In a turn, the outside shock spring pushes harder as it is compressed. The inside shock spring, though pushing with less force, is still exerting downward force, lifting the high side of the Spyder even higher and increasing lean angle. This is fine if you like more lean angle.

While shock springs are always pushing down no matter what, the sway bar is completely neutral and does nothing at all when riding straight ahead. The sway bar only comes into effect in a turn and its only function is to resist lean angle. It does this by transferring the down force energy of the outside wheel to up force energy on the inside wheel, and vise-versa.

In other words, the sway bar applies additional down force to the outside wheel, where it is needed, and resists the unneeded down force that the shock spring is exerting on the inside wheel, giving you less lean and a flatter stance in the turn. The harder you ride, or the higher the weight (like 2 up) the more sway bar effect you get.

Now it may be that BRP has stiffened up the OEM sway bar, and in this case I could see needing only a shock upgrade. But the best shocks in the world are not capable of overcoming a too weak sway bar.

[pro10is]

Question:
Doesn't the type of steel used need to be pretty specific to get the right rigidity??
I don't know anything at all about these kinds of things... more ignorance than usual even!
It just seems to my feeble mind that you'd best make darn good and sure that whatever material you're working with will do what you want when the torsional load is put on it...
So how do you get the right material??

I work with mechanical engineers who can identify most metal alloys easily. I've also worked with machinists who can do the same. Not only that, they can tell you usually off the top of their head exactly what materials should be use for almost any typical given application. A low tech sway bar would be no challenge to them. These guys really know their stuff. If I took the EVO sway bar with me to work I know a guy who would, just for the fun of it, have it completely 3D modeled in SolidWorks along with all the material specifications necessary to have it exactly or better than exactly duplicated. And he'd have it done well before lunch time. I was once lamenting to him that I needed to buy an expensive special tool for working on my boat's supercharger. He found a just photo of the tool and made one for me that was better than the original. Quite a handy guy to have around.

[Bob Denman]

So with the right training; this isn't a real toughie... Thanks!

[BajaRon]

So with the right training; this isn't a real toughie... Thanks!

The difficulty factor for someone in the business is low. Copywright and liability issues, maybe not so easy.

[Bob Denman]

Well bar the doors, and don't let anybody in whose name has "Esquire" after it!

[coz]

can anyone post a pic of the swaybar installed on gs or rs? stock or evo? please This is getting interesting.

[JCSMOKE]

VTC floorboards
VTC spoiler
VTC mini top vents
Elkas stage 1 shocks
Trailer hitch
Hid kit
Double play
Brite sides all around
Garage remote upgrade
More led lights
Turn signal indicator upgrade
And most important I have a gremlin bell on the way (thanks Bob)

You folks are not going to make me put a sway bar on this thing!

[SPYD1]

sway.jpg

[spyder-dude]

What happened to evoluzione?

[coz]

now that i have your attention,,,, what i was thinking of was some type of bracket or plate that could bolt on in the 90 ish degree areas of the swaybar that would reduce the flex. any thoughts, theories, or ideas ?

[cjackg]

I have always been a bit confused by people saying if you upgrade the shocks you don't need the sway bar upgrade. That's like saying I've got apples so I don't need oranges.

Shocks and sway bar work together to improve suspension response and handling. They do 2 completely different jobs in 2 completely different ways.

Granted, if you have Elka's the improvement from a sway bar upgrade will not be as noticable, and vise-versa. But having both is definitely the best way to go.

Shocks work independently. Each shock spring pushing down on its respective wheel with the same force when going straight. In a turn, the outside shock spring pushes harder as it is compressed. The inside shock spring, though pushing with less force, is still exerting downward force, lifting the high side of the Spyder even higher and increasing lean angle. This is fine if you like more lean angle.

While shock springs are always pushing down no matter what, the sway bar is completely neutral and does nothing at all when riding straight ahead. The sway bar only comes into effect in a turn and its only function is to resist lean angle. It does this by transferring the down force energy of the outside wheel to up force energy on the inside wheel, and vise-versa.

In other words, the sway bar applies additional down force to the outside wheel, where it is needed, and resists the unneeded down force that the shock spring is exerting on the inside wheel, giving you less lean and a flatter stance in the turn. The harder you ride, or the higher the weight (like 2 up) the more sway bar effect you get.

Now it may be that BRP has stiffened up the OEM sway bar, and in this case I could see needing only a shock upgrade. But the best shocks in the world are not capable of overcoming a too weak sway bar.

I was told the part no. for the sway bar on the 2012 RT is the same as on the 2010 (BRP p/n 706201156).

BajaRon's comments above are the best explanation I have read yet on this whole topic!