Giving up.

[murphybrown]

Shaku thought of you when the wind was screaming as I went thru Ellensburg today (the wind turbines were realllllly turning)...anyway am sure you are familiar with EB's wind...was on Ms Spyder going speed limit (65+)...and started paying attention to how I ryde when wind is trying to push me around...and then those dang trucks on top of it...I still ryde with a lite touch on handlebars, BUT definitely more cognizant of what's happening...grip tank area fairly tight with my knees and lower legs up against machine...certainly not my relaxed stance...ok, yep definitely handle wind different than no wind...but I do that in whatever I am driving...
Bruce have any answers for you...

[patdcop]

Sometimes when we age, doctors begin to treat us with prophylactic medications. You know, like statins, hypertension medications, aspirin, etc etc. Some Beta blockers can cause symptoms that make us feel unstable during quick movements such as helmet buffeting from wind or create slowed mental responses like being in a fog. This too, can cause a feeling of instability.

I am not saying that this is what your are experiencing. I am suggesting that if the spyder checks out, there may be other factors involved to look at and address as you rule out items one by one.

I am not getting older but my wife is. lol

[murphybrown]

Holy Crap I knew there was a reason why I don't take drugs....there is enough mental fog with aging....unstable with quick movements??? Yep that would be me.and I can't pop a squat anymore without falling over (whoops TMI!!!).
.they tell me Wii will help...so guess I will spend some $$ on that and then I can balance like I did when I was 20...oh yea, I wasn't very good then either..oh well...guess I will just grip tighter as I ryde in the wind...

Sometimes when we age, doctors begin to treat us with prophylactic medications. You know, like statins, hypertension medications, aspirin, etc etc. Some Beta blockers can cause symptoms that make us feel unstable during quick movements such as helmet buffeting from wind or create slowed mental responses like being in a fog. This too, can cause a feeling of instability.

I am not saying that this is what your are experiencing. I am suggesting that if the spyder checks out, there may be other factors involved to look at and address as you rule out items one by one.

I am not getting older but my wife is. lol

[GeoffCee]

A couple of years ago a stroke left me with a balance problem; it stopped me riding motorcycles which I had been doing for over 45 years. I heard about the Spyder, took a look and booked a test ride. That short ride demonstrated two things; I didn't have a balance problem when riding it and that the Spyder was neither a car nor a motorcycle. Pretty obvious, huh?

I was intrigued enough to figure out why it felt so different, at least to my own satisfaction. The following has no scientific basis, they are just my feelings...

In a car your seat has side supports which prevents your upper body from sliding about left and right in sympathy with the G-forces of cornering. The pull on your body is also lessened because you are in a sitting position, having your legs stuck out in front of you reduces your C of G. Anybody who has had a ride standing up in the back of a pickup truck will know all about cornering forces!

When sitting astride the Spyder your whole body is subjected to side-to-side G-forces without any mechanical restraint. Other than the resistance you are able to apply through holding on tight to the bars and using the strength in your shoulders to shift some of your upper body weight in opposition to the forces of cornering, you swing left and right exactly like a pendulum when cornering, with the pivoting point around your upper thighs. It helps to feel more secure if you grip The Spyder with your knees.

Cornering on a motorcycle produces almost no pendulum effects because the rider and bike lean over together and the C of G runs straight down in a line from the top of the rider's head to the contact patch of his tyres. Bikers often express a feeling of being "at one" with their machines and in this sense their feelings are true. I've heard it said that it is possible, (though obviously not advisable), to corner a motorcycle without touching the bars, shifting the rider's weight alone.

The Spyder's reversed trike layout doesn't lend itself to an easy learning experience for the new owner, but as a ride its idiosyncrasies can be adapted to, overcome and eventually enjoyed. It is such an unusual ride that it sometimes takes the owner some time to adjust. Apparently some continue to feel uncomfortable with it and offer up their Spyder for 5 bucks!

[Lamonster]

The other thing that got me thinking is the discussions of the Lamonster cut seats. With the stock seat I sit on the thing and my butt is free to shift around. Think of the toy board on the roller game. As I said, it's only been a couple of days and I'm still going to the dealer, but this is the first thing I've tried that actually helped. It could have just been favorable winds those two days, but I'm going out tonight and see. Hands, relaxed most of the time, body, not so much. Is there a Corbin in my future? I dunno.

I've posted this a few times that the seat will make it handle better. When I go from my Corbin to a stock seat I tend to wonder a bit because it's like sitting on a ball and your butt can move back and forth on the seat and that puts input to the bars. When you lock in your butt you don't have that problem.
Sounds like you're heading in the right direction.

[tuck]

I live just north of Spokane near Colbert, and if you like I would be glad to switch spyders with you and go for a ride. I have a 2011 Rt with about 4000 miles. I could ride yours on the same roads that I am farilure with and see if it handles different.

[Shaku]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful posts! The bat-cycle (I named it that because it drives me batty) is in the shop at this moment and I am waiting to hear what, if anything, they found. Patdcop: What an eye opener! I had never even thought about the hypertension drugs I take. Although I have been on the same meds through a lot of quad and Wing riding, the short, quick skips are unique to the Spyder. I will factor the meds idea into my experiments. The post on sideways G's was very helpful in harmonizing my current line of thinking. On a Wing, when a cross-wind hits, the rider and the bike just lean into it together. On a Spyder, the corrections are only in the horizontal plane. Seems to me that if the correction is made by a push or pull on the bars, if the body position shifts, those corrections will be chaotic. I went out last night and tested the "clench the tank" idea again and it really does improve things. There are still some "quick breath intake" moments" but I am able to stay between the lines.
The ryde to the shop was not too bad, but still not what I would expect for a 400 miles per day freeway eater. As Lamonster said, at least I may be on the right track. Sheez. I am an instrument rated pilot and didn't have this much trouble learning to fly without being able to see out.

Tuck: thank you for the kind offer. Let's see what the shop says. Heck, Roundy's is only a little ways from Colbert anyway.

[warp10]

you might look into a different seat also, one that cradles you rear better. This will also help in keeping you in one place on the bike, the same as you are doing with gripping the tank with your knees. hope this helps.

[napper39]

dont let this geting use to the spyder get you dowen ive had 52 motorcycles and scooters and it took me 600 miles befor i felt safe at 70 mph and now im ok and having fun on the spyder mr blue.the frist time i rode one i got tom 45 mph and it just takes time and seems like if you never rode a motorcycle you adapt much quicker.take that guy up on the switch deal and see if his bike is better or the same as yous.most of all give it time.

[BLACK SPYDERRT]

MAYBE U SHOULD SLOW IT DOWN EVERYBODYS ALWAYS IN A HURRY. PUT THE CRUISE ON GREAT BETWEEN 50-65 I JUST KEEP MY HANDS ON THE END CAPS TO GENTLY GUIDE AND MAKE MINOR PUSH PULL CORRECTIONS. U GET MUCH BETTER GAS MI WITH THE CRUISE ON..
LESS STEERING EQUALS BETTER CONTROL..
ENJOY THE SCENERY!!

[NancysToy]

I am impressed with your determination to stick with it, and adjust as you need to. Great attitude! One of the hardest tings for me, as a motorcycle rider, is to adjust to the wind influence when I switch to the Spyder. The vastly different machines react much differently to wind and road conditions. I am a natural-born "tank hugger", but as you have discovered, gripping with your knees does seem to help keep your body under control. The biggest difference between Spyders and bikes, to me, is that the Spyder is actually not corrected for the wind, like a bike, at least not as much. I know that sounds strange, but I will try to explain.

On a motorcycle, when the wind hits, it causes the machine and rider to lean slightly. This immediately initiates a turn, although the gyroscopic effect of the wheels fights the tendency to turn, somewhat. The rider subconsciously (or consciously in a strong wind) makes tiny corrections, leaning back toward the wind, and/or countersteering ever so slightly to maintain his/her course. I find that on the Spyder, I want to make the same sort of corrections. Big mistake! The Spyder has no gyroscopic stability, and has very sensitive steering. It also tends to be less influenced by the wind...merely "rocking instead of turning". The natural (learned?) tendency to steer against the wind results in unneeded turning, then the rider has to correct that, and the result is wandering all over like a drunken sailor. I have found that by "divorcing" my upper body from my arms, I can let the wind move my body around, while the Spyder travels happily down the road. I keep hearing my flight instructor telling me, "Keep a light hand on the controls, and let the plane fly itself". I know this sounds silly, but try real hard to make as few steering corrections as possible for the wind, letting your body move around without your hands following suit. You may be surprised at the results.

BTW, if they do need to make some toe-in adjustments, be prepared for a whole new Spyder. They do get bad manners with too little toe-in.

[harleyRick]

s

I can tell from the posts that I am not the only one unhappy with the handling of my Spyder. I ride a 2011 RT. I have tried all the advice on the threads plus the advice given by my local dealer. I now have a bit over 1,300 miles and would not ride this thing for more than 50 miles. I have tried putting the fronts to 25 PSI and then taking freeway runs... lowering the PSI 1 lb. at a time down to 13 PSI. Not acceptable yet. The rear is at 28 and the rear suspension is at 25. The front shocks are stock and set to 5. I can't bring myself to lay out even more money for Elkas or a new torsion bar. <br>
<br>
I have been riding motorcycles since I was 14. I have been riding 4-wheelers for the last 15 years both on and off road. I thought this machine was dangerous in the beginning but on advice read here, I have kept at it, hoping I (or it) would get better. On a perfectly calm day, the ride is nice. It is rarely dead calm around here. I am scared to death to go past a semi as a sudden gust of wind will move me over 2 feet. I am not sure there is anything wrong with the Spyder as I can sometimes let loose of the bars and it tracks straight. For winds, I've tried riding with the windshield up and all the way down. Not much difference. <br>
<br>
I am used to getting on, cranking the stereo and riding for 4-500 miles. On the Spyder I am exhausted after 40-50 miles. Yes, I am "relaxing" and holding lightly. Yes I am letting the bike have it's own way. But in the wind, it whips me back and forth in the seat and occasionally the front feels like it is digging into the pavement. IMHO, this thing is dangerous. I am aware of posts that others track well. I've complained to the shop and they tell me it is "fine." If this is what qualifies as"fine," I'm gonna sell it for $50 and buy another Goldwing. I don't have any hair to pull out but wish I did. I know there have been other posts like this one, so just add this one to the pile. Good luck and happy riding to all.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I had some handling problems with mine it pulled to the left and was hard to handle in the wind. I finally got it to the right dealer and he centered my steering .I'm running 17 psi in my front tires. I was amazed at how it settled mt RT down It still moves around in the wind but it's about 80 percent better.

[Pandy]

MAYBE U SHOULD SLOW IT DOWN EVERYBODYS ALWAYS IN A HURRY. PUT THE CRUISE ON GREAT BETWEEN 50-65 I JUST KEEP MY HANDS ON THE END CAPS TO GENTLY GUIDE AND MAKE MINOR PUSH PULL CORRECTIONS. U GET MUCH BETTER GAS MI WITH THE CRUISE ON..
LESS STEERING EQUALS BETTER CONTROL..
ENJOY THE SCENERY!!

What he said, that's us the majority of the time. So, despite all the wisea** replies about selling,can we assume you have changed your mind?

Patrick

[Shaku]

The jury is still out on the selling thing. I called the shop yesterday and despite having an appt., they hadn't touched it. So, still waiting. WA has 70 mph freeways, ID is 75 MPH. MT is the Montanabahn. If you tried to do 60 or below, sooner or later somebody would hit ya from behind. I do use the cruise control, just set at 73 or so. There is little traffic on the freeways out here. If I wanted to go slower, I woulda bought a Crosley.

I did spend some time yesterday on the phone with the Elka factory and found out a lot of interesting things about the RT. According to Elka, the RT is undersprung and underdamped. This is part of the cause for the "whack a mole" driving experience. They suggested doing the front first and changing the rear at about 14,000 miles. I'm counting pennies at the moment. Called Corbin too and waiting to hear back on an issue. It hardly seems fair to lay out $25,000+ and still have to lay out another $2000 to make it handle correctly. I'm jealous of the folks who just buy it, sit on it, and ride. (sigh)

[Shaku]

I left my Spyder with the dealer on Wed. for a Thurs. appt. scheduled a few weeks ago. It is now Friday afternoon and they report that they won't get to it today. Grrr. I wonder what the purpose of the appt. was. And the hits just keep on coming.

[GeoffCee]

I'm jealous of the folks who just buy it, sit on it, and ride. (sigh)

You can stop your sighing. Like sex, nobody is born knowing what to do with it right off.

[ijon1]

I agree with other folks on the fourm. Somthing on your Spyder is set up wrong. I can steer my 2011 rts with two fingers. I don't drive that way, just pointing it out to my wife. I would find a dealer that knew what he was doing. Just my two cents.

[Shaku]

OK, so I got the bat-cycle back on Sat. The mechanic never tells me anything unless I hunt him down and corner him. The repair invoice is cryptic at best. All I got was that the alignment was off "1/8 of an inch." I have no idea whether that is toe in, toe out or something else entirely. I asked him to check the toe-in and toe out so I assume the 1/8th is related somehow. I also don't know if that is a tiny amount "off" or a large amount "off." On the ride home from the shop (~45 miles) I didn't see much difference. I took it out Sunday for 150 miles or so of freeway. There was a difference in handling, but hard to describe. The winds were a bit stronger than usual, but while it darted and weaved more than I would like, it never gave me the "you're going to die" signal. It is very hard to describe, but before, when it headed for the weeds, and I corrected, it had a feeling similar to my ATV when a front wheel digs in on a corner. There was no such thing as a "smooth" correction. Now I can correct smoothly. I still feel like a trooper might give me a DWI ticket, but coming back with the wind behind, things were pretty nice. When I got nearer to home, I caught myself wishing I could go some more! That's progress. I used to wonder if I was even going to make it home and was more than happy to get off the thing.

I think I need to go through all of the pressures testing from the beginning now that the alignment has been changed. I still have a lot to do to make the bat-cycle a finished highspeed cruiser. Simple things mostly, like power jacks for my clothes, Elkas, somebody's seat, install the rear air suspension kit that's sitting on a shelf, GPS mount, stereo with subwoofer, maybe a second battery and perhaps a little bling. I'm making a list so I don't have to remove the Tupperware more than once.

Warmest thanks to all who responded. Without your encouragement, the bat-cycle would be another GW by now. Bottom line is that the bat-cycle is off the market for now. Pat yourselves on the back.

[MouthPiece]

I certainly hope that "bat cycle" is a term of endearment. Elstwise, I think we'll be hearing more.

Chris

[Shaku]

Definitely a term of endearment. It looked so "spacy" when it first arrived in the garage that I considered putting in a bat-pole to get to ground level. It just looks like it escaped from the first series with Adam West.

[Lamonster]

You may or may not have seen this but I took this video with you in mind. There is hope and this is proof that not all RT's handle unruly.

[Shaku]

Oh Geee. Thanks. I don't know whether to hope or upchuck! It must be your nifty hand grips. Do you think your Elkas are much of a contribution to that wonderful stability? Sheez, one handed holding a camera. Lord o' Goshen... At least I never have anybody want to ride beside me.
I've even noticed cars hurrying in the other lane so they aren't next to me. Topic card: I got my custom molded earpieces to replace the ones I slammed in the garage door. Just cutting back on the noise and having tunes makes things smoother. I had the last pair for 15+ years and they cut noise 28dB plus they have the best sound I've ever heard in an earpiece. Thanks for the video Lamonster... I think.