To spyder or not spyder, that is the question...

[aka1004]

Well after my engine locked up only after 17 miles with newly rebuilt engine and my hopes of riding was crushed, I am truly done with this spyder. Even if they fix it again, how can I enjoy it with constant worries. It's been in the shop since last September basically but I am still making my payments, paying for insurance and registration without a ride.

Salesman at the dealer says they will appraise my spyder as running bike if and when warranty repair is approved but if they they try to take advantage of my situation, I will just have to wait till it's fixed (may be another 3-4 month) and take it to another dealer.

I really can not see myself giving more money to brp after what brp and this spyder have put me thru but I don't know if I am up for conventional motorcycling again.

[boborgera]

I hear you, I'm ready to bail any day now myself

[dvmdf]

Well after my engine locked up only after 17 miles with newly rebuilt engine and my hopes of riding was crushed, I am truly done with this spyder. Even if they fix it again, how can I enjoy it with constant worries. It's been in the shop since last September basically but I am still making my payments, paying for insurance and registration without a ride.

Salesman at the dealer says they will appraise my spyder as running bike if and when warranty repair is approved but if they they try to take advantage of my situation, I will just have to wait till it's fixed (may be another 3-4 month) and take it to another dealer.

I really can not see myself giving more money to brp after what brp and this spyder have put me thru but I don't know if I am up for conventional motorcycling again.

I am in LA also which dealer do you go to?

[IWN2RYD]

This is unacceptable. Why the engine did this is of no debate. The events you have gone through are to great.

If I may...

Had this situation happened to me, I would not work through the dealer at this time. I would work the phones @ BRP until I got high enough up the ladder to get this issue resolved (IN other words a person who makes decisions not a hourly employee asking the person who does) in the next two weeks (Reasonable time to have an answer to how this is going to be resolved).

While you're knee deep in remorse and disappointment, it IS BRP's job to find a fast and reasonable solution to this.

[Sny]

I have to agree. A newly rebuilt motor gone after 17 miles means their tech totally screwed something up. Badly.

3-4 months to fix it? What are they forging and machining the parts themselves? I rolled my Spyder, you can imagine the damage. They stripped it bare and checked, scoped and fondled every piece. It was done in a week.

Get BRP on the horn. They've been coming down hard on dealerships that cannot handle working on Spyders due to insufficient training, experience or skillset.

Even if you plan on selling (I can fully understand your frustration); Do this for the rest of us. Make a bad dealer good, or gone.

[Big Arm]

I have to agree. A newly rebuilt motor gone after 17 miles means their tech totally screwed something up. Badly.

3-4 months to fix it? What are they forging and machining the parts themselves? I rolled my Spyder, you can imagine the damage. They stripped it bare and checked, scoped and fondled every piece. It was done in a week.

Get BRP on the horn. They've been coming down hard on dealerships that cannot handle working on Spyders due to insufficient training, experience or skillset.

Even if you plan on selling (I can fully understand your frustration); Do this for the rest of us. Make a bad dealer good, or gone.

This is unacceptable. Why the engine did this is of no debate. The events you have gone through are to great.

If I may...

Had this situation happened to me, I would not work through the dealer at this time. I would work the phones @ BRP until I got high enough up the ladder to get this issue resolved (IN other words a person who makes decisions not a hourly employee asking the person who does) in the next two weeks (Reasonable time to have an answer to how this is going to be resolved).

While you're knee deep in remorse and disappointment, it IS BRP's job to find a fast and reasonable solution to this.

[aka1004]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"

[LennyO]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"

Holly crap!!!!
Your posts make me think again about buying....
Good luck to both of you. I will be watching with interest..

[bill pitman]

My personal opinion- Don't let any dealers rebuild an engine. The risk of problems is too great. Once BRP says "rebuild engine" a new/certified rebuilt from "engine factory" should be sent to the dealer and the old,nasty,bad engine sent back to BRP for "certified" rebuild.
JMO

Bill

[bill pitman]

Unless it's from Doc. In that case , scrap metal money!!

Wilbur

[aka1004]

Holly crap!!!!
Your posts make me think again about buying....
Good luck to both of you. I will be watching with interest..

Don't get m wrong. I love spyder when it's not in shop. It is the best ride I've had with any number of wheels.
I just happen to get a rottenest apple out of the barrel.
My warranty repair numbers are now at 26.
All brp have done is telling me to take it in have them look at it but dealers started to refuse service my spyder or not do anything while it's in their shop because after so many repairs, they ran out parts to throw at my spyder. Dealers don't get paid for diagnostics, but gets paid only when a part is replaced/repaired. Add mechanics who don't get a hourly wage but paid by piece work... One dealer flat out said they're loosing money on my spyder.

I hear Carlo is doing a good job but before Carlo, customer service was a foreign word at brp.

[LennyO]

Don't get m wrong. I love spyder when it's not in shop. It is the best ride I've had with any number of wheels.
I just happen to get a rottenest apple out of the barrel.
My warranty repair numbers are now at 26.
All brp have done is telling me to take it in have them look at it but dealers started to refuse service my spyder or not do anything while it's in their shop because after so many repairs, they ran out parts to throw at my spyder. Dealers don't get paid for diagnostics, but gets paid only when a part is replaced/repaired. Add mechanics who don't get a hourly wage but paid by piece work... One dealer flat out said they're loosing money on my spyder.

I hear Carlo is doing a good job but before Carlo, customer service was a foreign word at brp.

Oh well... with my luck, I will get a LEMON TREE...

[ARtraveler]

I recommend your working through BRP and Carlo.

It sounds like you have a bad dealer service dept. 26 times for warranty repairs is way to much. I would have sold it long ago. You are actually a very patient person.

Give them another couple weeks like an earlier post suggested--talk with BRP--not the dealership.

Keep us posted.

Lenny: this is an exception rather than the way most 's are.

[bone crusher]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"

First of all, Carlo will tell you that the Rotax is a high revving engine...second, nothing you did destroyed an engine after 17 miles...did they put oil in it?

Third, get Carlo to get you a new engine, period. Enough is enough. I'm a big fan of BRP, but I'm not so much that I cannot see when someone is taken advantage of. Geeez, they need to right this for you, and now.

Anything short of a proper fix is not good enough...at this point, they can get you a new engine or a new bike.

We have all these 'ambassadors' running around...as far as I'm concerned, they mean nothing if the company they are representing can't get a bike fixed after how many tries? Get Carlo on the horn...and quickly...

[dvmdf]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"

Have you considered a Lemon Law attorney? Sounds like your case would qualify. Get your money back, get new spyder or another bike, end of problem

[aka1004]

Brp warranty is expired. Last engine rebuild was paid for by western service contract co., a 3rd party extended warranty co.
Spyder was an impulse buy and this was what they were pitching, very very hard. I was not even aware of best.

In any Case, they cover the $4500 bill without any resistance but I am guessing they might have few questions this time.

[Firefly]

I fully understand your disappointment on this whole deal --- and I really think this is mainly a DEALER issue--- but there are some variables here that are making this situation more complicated..... mainly that it sounds like you have a 3rd party warranty through 'western service' ??

This throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing--- now it's a 3 way problem between the dealer, BRP and western..... I feel your pain !

I personally wouldn't trust any warranty other than BEST --- which is the one provided by BRP --- even though it's probably a third party--- BRP makes it clear there is a close 'relationship' between them and BEST.

Then comes the issue of an (apparently) unqualified tech throwing your engine back together---- TWICE.

As I've said before--- BRP needs to set up a rebuild engine exchange system for these instead of leaving it to the local dealer to rebuild. The techs at BRP can rebuild one correctly and quicker I'm sure.

I'd lean towards trading it in and getting a new one-- and then finding a better dealer for service.

Bummer for sure!

[NancysToy]

Well, I don't see where BRP is a party to this at all. Failures outside the BRP warranty period, either the factory warranty or the BEST extension, are unfortunately none of their concern. This is strictly a dealer issue, although it could soon also become an insurance issue, which is what the private warranty is...insurance. Frankly, I think the dealer will have to make this right out of his own pocket. His negligence almost certainly caused the failure in that few miles. Depending on your state laws, you probably have a right to expect a reasonable amount of service from the new engine...certainly not 17 miles. Most "10 minutes or 50 feet" warranties have been outlawed. You may have to go to court to be made whole, however, I'm sorry to say. I sure hope the dealer steps up to the plate and restores my faith in humanity.

[Firefly]

Well, I don't see where BRP is a party to this at all. Failures outside the BRP warranty period, either the factory warranty or the BEST extension, are unfortunately none of their concern. This is strictly a dealer issue, although it could soon also become an insurance issue, which is what the private warranty is...insurance. Frankly, I think the dealer will have to make this right out of his own pocket. His negligence almost certainly caused the failure in that few miles. Depending on your state laws, you probably have a right to expect a reasonable amount of service from the new engine...certainly not 17 miles. Most "10 minutes or 50 feet" warranties have been outlawed. You may have to go to court to be made whole, however, I'm sorry to say. I sure hope the dealer steps up to the plate and restores my faith in humanity.

Good points---- the dealer should also have 'employee negligence' insurance under such cases.....

[aka1004]

My spyder had most known issues that other spyders had except that when some spyders had this, others had that problem but mine had the complete package of issues. From front sprockets to rear fender to bad ecu, Evap can, bent rotors, etc. I mean you name it my spyder had it. Engine was the only thing that was performing without much problem even thru all kinda codes until the first engine tear down for main shaft replacement that took 4 month.

Yes I did try lemon law suit but my Mac-lawyer ran away crying when brp's big time lawyer began to twist their arms. Brp lawyer even threaten me with countersuit for $15000 they spent on investigating the case.
I don't know if it's true or not but according to my Mac-lawyer, brp spent $50000+ on my case. He was familiar with opposing councel and said they get a flat fee for case

The last word from my lawyer was "it's not what happen that's important in court, it's it's what can be proved and how it's presented that's important.

[aka1004]

Well, I don't see where BRP is a party to this at all. Failures outside the BRP warranty period, either the factory warranty or the BEST extension, are unfortunately none of their concern. This is strictly a dealer issue, although it could soon also become an insurance issue, which is what the private warranty is...insurance. Frankly, I think the dealer will have to make this right out of his own pocket. His negligence almost certainly caused the failure in that few miles. Depending on your state laws, you probably have a right to expect a reasonable amount of service from the new engine...certainly not 17 miles. Most "10 minutes or 50 feet" warranties have been outlawed. You may have to go to court to be made whole, however, I'm sorry to say. I sure hope the dealer steps up to the plate and restores my faith in humanity.

I explained that I had Western service contract warranty but I guess some of my postings were bit long for people to read thoroughly.
Brp is not involved in this issue but they did not do enough to take care of all the problems I had with spyder.

[retiredsquid]

If BRP cared about their reputation they would make the bike right. I'll guarantee you that I would be raising several kinds of holy cane if my Spyder had that many problems and sat at a dealer's shop for weeks on end. I treat my Spyder as my primary mode of transportation and expect the same level of service I get from Ford for my truck and from Chevy for my Corvette.

Lemon Laws need to apply to motorcycles the same as they do for cars and trucks. BRP might wake up then. Maybe the BRP warranty is expired, but if the warranty was extended day for day while down in the shop it might be a different story. Besides, if it is like with automobile warranties the dealerships have a lot of latitude when one is close or slightly over warranty period, especially for problem vehicles.

[aka1004]

This was just me venting my frustration over last two and half years with spyder and brp along with all the joys spyder has brought and now this with engine/dealer issues.
There are a lot more spyders on the road these days, here in California anyway and I've seen as many as 4 in a day. Every time I see one, I feel this pain in my heart... I know it may be silly but I really loved time I spent on my spyder despite of all the problems.

I think it's time to move on, at least from this spyder.
I am torn between another spyder or 2-wheeler. Service writer thinks I am nuts to even consider another spyder.

[ScottyB]

Without a doubt you have a very strong case as far as the LEMON LAW goes. If you go down that avenue as a last ditch effort and can't get anywhere or you have had enough, make sure you have documented everything to date of all pertaining to your Spyder.
Then start your research about how to file or get a Lemon Law attorney.

[darren]

Well after my engine locked up only after 17 miles with newly rebuilt engine and my hopes of riding was crushed, I am truly done with this spyder. Even if they fix it again, how can I enjoy it with constant worries. It's been in the shop since last September basically but I am still making my payments, paying for insurance and registration without a ride.

Salesman at the dealer says they will appraise my spyder as running bike if and when warranty repair is approved but if they they try to take advantage of my situation, I will just have to wait till it's fixed (may be another 3-4 month) and take it to another dealer.

I really can not see myself giving more money to brp after what brp and this spyder have put me thru but I don't know if I am up for conventional motorcycling again.

Why did they bother to rebuild the engine when mine had the vibration thur it they ended up just replacing the old engine for a new complete unit it took time to get it done but they done it , keep hounding your dealer and brp and don't stop until they do it, every day if you have to and also buy some lemon stickers and place them all over it im sure that brp and the dealer would not like to explain to new buyers why it has them on it.
Hope you come out of it well and god bless