Bret BRP messed up my Spyder!!

[Bob Denman]

...It would be like buying four new tires and the next morning your car won't start so it must have been the tire guys who did it...

...BUT... At some point the mechanical and "computerical" have to interact... I know so little about this that I'm barely qualified to open the thread, but could a programming action either make the engine run leaner (and hotter) or cause the thermostat to open later? (doubtful...)

Or... could it be that a gauge is reading the same temperatures as being "hotter" simply because of how it is displaying the temperatures???


9999,,,

[lightman02]

I've had techs do a courtesy check on coolant, etc. when doing normal service and they put the cap on wrong. It’s possible your cap isn’t on all the way; you can be a little low on coolant or have a slight loose connection on one of the hoses as I know that was an issue in the past. Also make sure you coolant bottle doesn’t have any cracks. Otherwise it could be nothing wrong maybe as the temps are warming up your feeling more heat, I notice as the outside air gets warmer I feel a lot more heat from my bike then I do in cooler weather. As far as software changes, I don’t see it, there could be a change of the fan turn on temp in the new software code that you are unaware of but this is normal. Even car manufactures alter code slightly sometimes in a software update and it is never known to the consumer or the techs themselves, it’s nothing unusual. However I cannot say that this fan turn on threshold has been altered but I have to agree, nothing in the software made the bike run hotter. As of right now I am under an extended warranty so I have no need to do repairs at my expense. When my warranty does expire; if I decide keep the Spyder I will be talking control of my computer so to say. I do my own work on everything I own so BRP will not be holding me hostage with their third party software and dongle forever.

If you want to try another dealer you can try : Bay Harbor Motors in Staten Island. I bought my Can-Am 450DS from them and they seemed pretty cool, never used them for service though.

[LennyO]

I don't know squat about Spyder (YET! ), but being a computer programmer for many years (30) , I can officially and confidently state that with any software modification there is a REAL possibility of screwing up things that are TOTALLY unrelated to the intended change.

I've done it, I've seen it more times then I care to remember!

Only a very thorough testing, which MUST include "negative testing" (which is intended to prove that your modification for added or modified functionality did not break anything along the way that was working properly before) will guarantee success.

Unfortunately, "negative testing" is a weak point in MANY if not MOST software shops, no matter what industry!

With 5 ECUs on the Spyder - there is no telling what can happen when software is updated!

No offence, Lamont!

SO, providing that there is no other mechanical cause - I am with Burg650 on the chance that Software could cause it. He seems to be a very thorough guy who pays attention to little things some others do not.

On the other hand - if the software update had "side effects" (which it really should not) - it must have been public knowledge, allowing people to make a choice whether to subscribe or not.

I hope you get this resolved! Good luck!

Try talking to RUSTY PALMERs in PA.
Seemed like nice guys (at least the sales. Gave me the best price too!)

[NancysToy]

I had more heat, related clutch problems, and related engine performance problems in Maggie Valley. Mine appear to be strictly weather and traffic related. They disappeared when we finally hit cooler weather and the freeway. I suspect it is merely a coincidence. Now if they had changed your tires, I would be real suspicious......

All kidding aside, you may indeed have a genuine problem, but the cluster update probably didn't cause it. Sometimes things happen at near the same time, and seem to be related. I'd have my Spyder checked by my dealer, if I were you. Just tell them about the heating problem, not the work done, and let them make their own conclusions as to the cause.

[docdoru]

I don't know squat about Spyder (YET! ), but being a computer programmer for many years (30) , I can officially and confidently state that with any software modification there is a REAL possibility of screwing up things that are TOTALLY unrelated to the intended change.

All kidding aside, you may indeed have a genuine problem, but the cluster update probably didn't cause it. Sometimes things happen at near the same time, and seem to be related. I'd have my Spyder checked by my dealer, if I were you. Just tell them about the heating problem, not the work done, and let them make their own conclusions as to the cause.

1. History proved that software updates can and did introduced secondary "problems" (ex. DPS software update #1 vs. #2, when part of the update #2 consist in a flash of update #1). Problem was solved replacing the old DSP with generation 2.
2. We don't know what module is the target in the cluster update.
3. The Spyder RS owner knows the best any changes in his/hers temperature reading for the same temperature/location/traffic/style of ryding.

[boborgera]

My opinion,
AT this point i don't think Roger cares who did it or why it's doing it ;But why can't he get some dealer to look at it NOW not 3 weeks from now.

[lightman02]

My opinion,
AT this point i don't think Roger cares who did it or why it's doing it ;But why can't he get some dealer to look at it NOW not 3 weeks from now.

Problem is there are not nearly as many powersports dealers or techs then there are car dealers. It's a bad time out of the year to have work done on any power sport machine. You have to remember a lot of dealers work on street bikes, atv's, waverunners, etc. They get pretty backed up and it's hard to deal with in this area as the seasons are not long compared to somewhere like Florida. I know a lot of people that have a problems with their wave runner or atv and it can take almost a month to get it fixed. Then they come to me which can be very not fun.

[chris56]

funny story - maybe the relay of the fan has a problem ?? my GS was always running to 6 bars on the fast italian highways ( with best service )
but never run too hot - as you can see on the BUDS report what I always get printed out ... so 4to5 should not be any problem ..

[Firefly]

Maybe his spyder is just too used to riding on the trailer----. Just kidding bud!

Do you shut it off when it's on the trailer?

Okay-- sorry-- just couldn't help...... hope you get this solved soon bro....

I would just ride to a dealer-- pull in and see if they'll look at it on the spot----

Sounds like you also have a fan modified switch??

I really don't think 'bret' did anything bad to yer bike-- but get it checked out anyway and in the meantime--- RIDE! :-)

[BajaRon]

Not saying one way or the other. The owner usually knows if something has changed but I agree with Scotty, sometimes it's simply a coincidence.

I worked on a ladies VW Bug many years ago (single woman in the church with limited resources). Some of the mechanically inclined guys would help out for free. She needed a tune-up very badly. Plugs, wires, points, condencer (remember those days?).

Ran like a top when I was done. Next morning I get a call about 7am. She went out to go to work and the left rear tire was flat. She was very upset and wanted to know what I had done to her car! There was no talking her out of her idea that I'd worked on her car and whatever I did had everything to do with the tire going flat.

Granted, this is an extreme case and not necessarily related to the Spyder issue here. I'm just saying, though it appears there is a cause and effect relationship it isn't necessarily so.

The real problem is getting in for a diagnosis which should not only resolve the problem but give an indication as to the cause. It would be nice to throw it on the BUDS but I doubt it would be a net time factor of 10 minutes. Then for the dealer to say 'You need thus and so but we can't get to it for 3 weeks' isn't going to make the customer any happier.

There is always the off chance that it would be a quick fix and you'd be out the door. But how many other customers are in the same boat? The dealer can't just put everyone at the front of the line.

Tough situation and I feel for you. Hope you can find someone who can look at it soon.

[boborgera]

Problem is there are not nearly as many powersports dealers or techs then there are car dealers. It's a bad time out of the year to have work done on any power sport machine. You have to remember a lot of dealers work on street bikes, atv's, waverunners, etc. They get pretty backed up and it's hard to deal with in this area as the seasons are not long compared to somewhere like Florida. I know a lot of people that have a problems with there wave runner or atv and it can take almost a month to get it fixed. Then they come to me which can be very not fun.

Points very well taken, But that same dealer that sells Spyders also sells bikes, Bring in a two wheeler for a quick check and they will get you in quick. The problem with the Spyder is poor support from BRP [parts delivery] SO if they take it in and put other bikes aside and then find they need to order a part to get it to run right it will sit there taking up space waiting weeks for parts to come in. And that's with all BRP's products, Three years ago when i bought my Spyder my Sons told me [ they both had jet skis and snowmobiles brp's] That if you have a breakdown in season you'll lose most of that season waiting for parts, So far they been right..

[Firefly]

I would also mention pertaining to the wrapped pipes----- I've heard from the HD crowd that this is not recommended on fuel-injected engines--- in fact HD will not cover engine warranty if you wrap them---- at least that's what our local dealer has told them.......

[MouthPiece]

Yes he is, he's also one of 3 head techs here in the US and when the techs at the dealers can't figure out a problem they call Kurt. I talked to him about it last night when we were doing my clutch and all he did was clear some existing "non active" fault codes and update the cluster with the odometer fix. There's nothing in BUDS that can change how hot it runs. I'm not saying there's nothing going on with Rogers Spyder, just that BUDS didn't do it.

My point exactly, Lamont.

[burg650]

Thanks to all for your inputs on my problem, I don't believe in coincidence my spyder was running just fine till it was connected to the buds as I said no one is going to convince that this update or the codes that came on after the update did not change something else.

As I also said that after the update was done the bike would not start limp mode dsp abs and other lights came on the cluster and it took some time for them to be removed so maybe while trying to clear/fix this that is when something else was overlooked or messed up.

To answer some the other suggestion has a possible cause, I have checked my over flow bottle no leaks level is good cap is holding tight I just changed the exhaust gaskits last fall when I did last serives don't believe the exhaust wrap is causing any problems the ambient temperature has not changed that would effect the running temps on the spyder and the spal fan controller could not
get affected by the update and most important I know my bike and it was all
fine till it was connected to the buds maybe the update did not change
anything but for sure the problem with all those light/codes that came on after
the update must have screwed up something else related to the cooling system trust me after 2 years you know if something is out of wack..

[BajaRon]

Hardly the case at all..... HD even sells their own Logo tape.....

Looked into this and could not find any official "Don't Wrap" recommendation from Harley. I did discover that owners are complaining about higher than average OEM exhaust failures at or near the head on some Harley/Buell motorcycles. This information was on forums and you know how problems can be magnified in that environment.

Seems this failure rate (cracking) was attributed to excessive stress on (Some) exhaust systems. Failure rate appeared to be aggravated by wrapping the exhaust. Aftermarket systems didn't seem to have this issue, wrapped or not.

Of course wrapping your exhaust does increase the amount of heat sustained by the metal pipe so if it is under flex stress (which it should not be) failure rates will increase. But the problem is not the wrap.

There are people saying that hotter exhaust temperatures may affect FI sensors. This could make sense but the discussion is all conjecture and I didn’t find anything from a manufacturer saying it was a bad idea.

I have to say that wrap sure works great on my Spyder.

[docdoru]

Hardly the case at all..... HD even sells their own Logo tape.....

...and a VRXSE Screamin' Eagle DESTROYER ...did they read my avatar name in SL?

[burg650]

My apologies to Kurt for getting his name wrong.

[Roadkill]

Mine runs more bars after getting the cluster update, I think they just changed the ratio of bars to degrees. Bike doesn't run any different... That is, I never saw five bars except on hot summer days or in traffic. Now five bars is the norm.

+It's the same here. The bike isn't actually running hotter, the display is simply gauging slightly differently now. I haven't had any overheating concerns, but do note that I'm running a stronger bar across the board after the software update.

I don't think you need to worry unless you're limping; however, you live in a more congested area than I, so my fan isn't always spinning, likely due to the increased airflow my engine usually sees.

Ride on.
Roadkill

[SpyderWolf]

My apologies to Kurt for getting his name wrong.

He may be glad you got his name wrong in this case.

[woodchuck]

HORN'S OUTDOOR INC.
1169 Mt. Bethel Hwy
Mt. Bethel PA 18343
Tel.: 610.588.6614

Roger, give this place a call. I stopped in there once, just a small place, but maybe they can get you in more quickly.
I don't think teir too far off RT 80.

Bill

I bought my from Horns. A nice dealer to contact. They treated me okay.

[JOESPY]

Roger if you find a solution let me know i got the same problem with my Spyder, went to the dealer after i got back from Maggie Valley for an oil change, apparantly they plug the computer and the updates are done automatically, and since that day my Spyder also runs hotter. Spoke with the dealer and he told me that im not the only one that complained. Hope they find a solution.

[arntufun]

Yes he is, he's also one of 3 head techs here in the US and when the techs at the dealers can't figure out a problem they call Kurt. I talked to him about it last night when we were doing my clutch and all he did was clear some existing "non active" fault codes and update the cluster with the odometer fix. There's nothing in BUDS that can change how hot it runs. I'm not saying there's nothing going on with Rogers Spyder, just that BUDS didn't do it.

It's pretty funny (not really, it's pretty scary actually) to find out one of the three head techs for BRP didn't even know that he did infact change Rogers Spyder heat bars indicator and didn't even know it.

WOW !!! That all I'm going to say is, WOW !!!

[XLT]

It's pretty funny (not really, it's pretty scary actually) to find out one of the three head techs for BRP didn't even know that he did infact change Rogers Spyder heat bars indicator and didn't even know it.

WOW !!! That all I'm going to say is, WOW !!!

I am glad we have confirmed that it was Kurt and his buds who screwed up this bike.

[Firefly]

Hardly the case at all..... HD even sells their own Logo tape.....

Yup--- that's exactly what my HD buddy (Doug) told me-- but the local dealer told him not to install until after his factory warranty because it would void it....... crazy eh?

[Firefly]

I am glad we have confirmed that it was Kurt and his buds who screwed up this bike.

Kurt and BUDS didn't 'mess' anything up that would have any affect on the bike running or performance. The new cluster update simply changed how the bars read out as Lamont clearly showed. It does not and can not make the bike actually run hotter.

If the bike is actually running hotter (only way to know for sure would be to have temp readings before and after) - then the problem is somewhere else.

My guess is this was a placebo effect after seeing the temp read 'higher'.

Mine reads higher too--- but it most certainly does NOT run hotter.

I also don't find it 'scary' that Kurt was unaware of this cluster change -- he's a technician --- not a computer programmer.