Need Part Number Help and Engine 'Stumble' issues

[3Willie]

My 2008 SE5 has started having some issues after warming up and starting up from a stop after running several miles. Starting from a stop, the engine 'stumbles' and then takes off and runs fine. It is almost like it is starved for fuel for a moment and then kicks in. I have checked all of the relays and all were seated properly. I have not replaced any relays at this point. Several threads mention that the spark plug wires are easily damaged. I had the DPS update done a couple of months ago, but otherwise have not been near the plug wires. The Spyder ran fine until a week or so ago. It seems to run fine at all rpms except starting from a stop after getting warmed up. Temp gauge shows 3-5 bars depending on ambient temperature and where I have been riding. All downshifting is occuring fine either manually and electronically so know I am not keeping the rpm up accidentally when stopping. The issue is somewhat inconsistent but seems worse the longer I sit at a stop idling.

Looking for both advice on possible causes for the engine issue plus part number and location of spark plug wires on the BRP catalog site. I could not find plug wires anywhere on the site even though I found the spark plugs. I tried to register on the BRP website so I could get pricing and/or order, but kept getting kicked out of their website with an 'Internal Server Error' message. I will try to reigster later, but still wondering where to find the spark plug wires. I would not doubt that they are right in front of me and I just could not see them. (My wife catches me on this frequently!!)

Also wondering if there is a good replacement for the OEM BRP wires and plugs. It surely would be handy to get some of these routine parts locally.

Thanks in advance!!!

[3Willie]

I called BRP and found that the spark plug wires are listed under 'Electrical Accessories--Cable Ass'y' so have found part numbers for the spark plug wires. Still wondering if there is a great aftermarket replacement that does not cost $40+ per wire.

I stopped at a Spyder dealer yesterday while out for an extended ride and was told that a recall for my 2008 SE5 was to add a ground wire to the coil. Would this cause some of the engine issues while taking off? Their mechanic told me that it could possibly be the cause, but so could several other things. Several times yesterday, it took a second or two for the engine to really engage and take off. It acts like it is either getting too little or too much fuel. I have only smelled gas on one occasion when this happened, but it is not consistent. The problem only seems to happen when I have been riding long enough for everything to be at operating temps. Never seems to happen when I first start up or after several minutes to cool down. Never seems to be an issue when shifting in higher gears with rpm up.

The coil wire recall will probably be done in the next two weeks, but wondering if there are any other suggestions in the meantime?

[dltang]

I am sorry I can't help you but I can comment on the lack of responses. I think an awful lot of regular SpyderLovers are at SpyderFest and have not had time or access to the internet. Wait til after Sunday and see what happens.

[3Willie]

Excellent point!! Thank you for very kindly and graciously reminding me. Whiny people annoy me, so hope this thread did not come off that way.

Thanks again!!

[MMcc]

My 2008 GS started doing that and also would sometimes die at idle. Always started right up but idled rough only when warmed up. Stopped at a dealer and they did not have time to look at it then. It could be the plugs they said but
suggested I add some Starbrite fuel enzyme to the fuel. I bought a bottle from them and added it and then topped up the tank. Ran thru one tank of gas and really did not notice anything but did not die at idle. Noticed some improvement after second tank full, this by the way was California regular gas. I checked the rear plug and it was fine but did not want to take the time to attack the front plug. Think it might have been the gas. Try filling at a different station or try premium. My experience.

[3Willie]

I did fill up at a different station yesterday and used premium. Will need to fill up next time out again, so will try premium again. I have been filling up at different stations lately simply due to needing gas, but have been using 87 octane. Has anyone tried Seafoam or Marvels Gas treatment? Hopefully it is just some bad fuel. It was still acting the same yesterday after running most of a tank of premium at highway speeds.

[Pogo]

Hi 3Willie.

It will be the front plug. Mine fails about every 5000 km (3000 mi). It is a pain to get to, too so your dealer will try everything else first.

I think the problem has to do with the unequal lengths of the spark plug leads. The front plug is on the end of a long lead. The plugs have a 5k resistor built in, and the resistance of the front lead on my Spyder is about 8k, while that for the rear is about 3k. Given a bit of fouling, say some oil from the crank case breather, the front plug will misfire first.

Left alone, it eventually becomes a persistent misfire. It does get quite scary. You never know when you open the throttle if you have a 1000 cc V twin or a 500 cc single under you.

If you are willing to experiment, have the front plug replaced with a non-resistor version and see if the misfire returns.

Cheers;

Pogo.

[3Willie]

Couple of questions. Have you tried the iridium spark plugs or are you using the OEM plugs which are NGK DCPR9E per some of the other threads? The iridium is supposed to last longer which may solve some of the problems you have been having. My Spyder has a little over 7k miles on it and I think original plugs. Not sure since I bought it used.

Have you replaced the plug wires? I have heard of plug wires being easily damaged and arcing to a ground point.

As long as I have to tear into it, I might as well be ready for both. I can find the plugs locally or at least within a couple of days. Haven't checked for the plug wires anywhere but the BRP catalog. If you know of a replacement that is as good or better than OEM for the plug wires, that would be appreciated also.

[3Willie]

I took the spark plugs out this evening. Found that they were iridium spark plugs and burning very clean. The recall for the coil ground wire had already been done, but may not have been recorded. Looks like I am back to checking the plug wires for resistance issues. Probably will do that tomorrow and then see where this leads.

Nothing has stood out so far, so just wondering if I have gotten some bad fuel that is taking a while to work through. My tank is about empty so plan to use premium and a different station for my next fill up. This will be the second tank of premium. Also have some new relays coming so may swap out some relays to see if that is the issue.

Thanks for all suggestions!!!

[boborgera]

I took the spark plugs out this evening. Found that they were iridium spark plugs and burning very clean. The recall for the coil ground wire had already been done, but may not have been recorded. Looks like I am back to checking the plug wires for resistance issues. Probably will do that tomorrow and then see where this leads.

Nothing has stood out so far, so just wondering if I have gotten some bad fuel that is taking a while to work through. My tank is about empty so plan to use premium and a different station for my next fill up. This will be the second tank of premium. Also have some new relays coming so may swap out some relays to see if that is the issue.

Thanks for all suggestions!!!

I tried the Iridium plugs ran them for 11 hundred miles, went back to stock plugs, just me i felt the Spyder lost a little performance. [off idle hesitation]
Then about a year later my ECM went bad and in the process fouled the plugs, So all the playing around with the wires, one was damaged, and then i had the same symptoms as you have. The damage one was replaced problem solved.

[Lamonster]

I moved this to the Shop Talk where it should get more eyes for these kind of post.

[Campverdefela]

You can check your wires for leakage at night with the engine running and side panels off. Inspect the vacuum lines carefully for cracks, their are three on the left side of engine. If all else fails you may want to have the throttle bodies synchronized. I had a similar proplem as you have and the synchronizing took care of it...

[M2Wild]

Be sure ALL of the updates are applied. BRP fubared their 2nd update.

[3Willie]

The rear plug wire was at 3.8 ohms with a acceptable range of 3.24-5.53 ohms per the Can Am specs. The front wire shows 5.9 ohms with an acceptable range of 5.11-8.72 ohms. I fired up the Spyder in my dark garage (it has been rainy all day) and did not see any arcing even when I put a long handle screwdriver near the plugs and wires.

Also checked the 3 hoses on the left side of engine. All looked ok with not visible cracks or loose points.

Am not sure why the throttle bodies would now need synchronized. What would change the setup that cause them to get out of sync? The Spyder has a little over 7,000 miles and had ran well until just recently. Will keep looking, but right now leaning toward putting it all back together and adding some fuel treatment next time I fill up with premium.

Any ideas what else to check at this point? By the way, the air filter looks brand new.

[M2Wild]

You could have a bad evap control valve (mine did when I took it in for the 3rd update). That will certainly screw up your AF mixture. Just for testing, you might want to plug up the vent hose and see if it makes a difference. If it does and you are out of warrenty, just do the canesterectomy and be done with it.

[spyryder]

Also have a look at your exhaust gaskets. If they're blown it will cause hesitation as well. They usually seem to last only around 6000 miles.
Here's some more info and good pics:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...exhaust+gasket

[3Willie]

The original owner had already removed the evap canister when I bought it. I still have the canister, but really had no intention of reinstalling. The purge valve is still in place, but the hose that went to the canister has been plugged off.

Checked all of the exhaust gaskets both at heads and y gasket. Did not see any sign of leakage.

I have not pulled the oxygen sensor at this point so do not know the condition of that part or whether it would cause the problems I am having.

Still open for ideas to solve this mystery.

Thanks for all advice.

[Campverdefela]

The rear plug wire was at 3.8 ohms with a acceptable range of 3.24-5.53 ohms per the Can Am specs. The front wire shows 5.9 ohms with an acceptable range of 5.11-8.72 ohms. I fired up the Spyder in my dark garage (it has been rainy all day) and did not see any arcing even when I put a long handle screwdriver near the plugs and wires.

Also checked the 3 hoses on the left side of engine. All looked ok with not visible cracks or loose points.

Am not sure why the throttle bodies would now need synchronized. What would change the setup that cause them to get out of sync? The Spyder has a little over 7,000 miles and had ran well until just recently. Will keep looking, but right now leaning toward putting it all back together and adding some fuel treatment next time I fill up with premium.

Any ideas what else to check at this point? By the way, the air filter looks brand new.

Did you pull the vac lines all the way off and inspect as I had a break in one on the inside and not visible unless taken off. My throttle bodies were probably out of sync because of my mods [hindle, air intake, 02 Mod.] Is your Spyder totally stock? You may just want to replace the relays anyways as they are junk and many people have had problems with them.

[3Willie]

The bike is still stock with most mods things like exhaust wrap, mirror extenders, floorboards, seat, etc. No changes to fuel, air or exhaust systems with exception of removal of evaporation canister. I did not pull the vacuum hoses, but will this evening. Excellent point that there may be a hidden break that I just can not see. Have been trying to not disturb too much stuff so additional problems are not created.

We have had a lot of moisture in this area lately (about 20 inches in last 10 days) and a local parts store manager suggested some gas treatment to make sure any moisture is removed from the fuel system. Needless to say, they sold me some. Would not be too surprised to find some water in local gas station tanks or just condensation from high humidity and temperature changes in their tanks or in the Spyder.

I have some OEM relays ordered that should arrive in next few days. Got them for $3 each so will replace all existing relays to see if that helps. Have not seen really convincing data on Duralast 19271 relay so will use the OEM ones while I can. Apparently the OEM relays are no longer being manufactured, but I have not seen any BRP recommendations for replacement. If anyone knows of such a BRP recommendation, please start a new thread with that info.

[Pogo]

Couple of questions. Have you tried the iridium spark plugs or are you using the OEM plugs which are NGK DCPR9E per some of the other threads? The iridium is supposed to last longer which may solve some of the problems you have been having. My Spyder has a little over 7k miles on it and I think original plugs. Not sure since I bought it used.

I haven't tried the iridium. I'm working through a list of things that may cause the problem. I tried fitting a catch bottle in the crankcase breather.It did a great job of keeping oil out of the airbox, but I still have a misfire (note though that it isn't progressing as usual).

Next is to fit a non-resistor plug, because it will be easier than getting ignition leads made, and see if the misfire returns. If not then get non-resistor leads made, else look at the coils.

If I mask the problem by fitting plugs that would fire at the bottom of a swamp, I won't ever find the cause.

Have you replaced the plug wires? I have heard of plug wires being easily damaged and arcing to a ground point.

Not yet. On the list...

... If you know of a replacement that is as good or better than OEM for the plug wires, that would be appreciated also.

I started doing some reading on inductive versus resistive leads. I'm not convinced, but that is an experiment for another day.

Have fun. I hope that you get to the bottom of it, and I would appreciate knowing what you find there.

Cheers;

Pogo.

[NancysToy]

I would not replace either the spark plugs or the plug wires with non-resistor types. There are a couple of issues with that approach. First, the RFI emitted from either can adversely affect the CANBus sytsem, causing all sorts of possible problems. Second, damage to the coils, or even the ECM, could result. Third, the RS uses ionization current sensing knock control. A change of system resistance could trigger a response of the anti-knock system (or fail to trigger one), degrading performance or even causing engine damage. Modern engines should not be operated with non-resistor plugs or wires. Something changed on your machine, causing your sudden problems. You need to find the culprit and correct it, not create a new monster. JMHO

[3Willie]

My approach is usually to go back to the last change before the problems started. That is always great advice, so here goes. The last mod I made was custom built floorboards. During that process, I had a lot of the tupperware off so was extra careful making sure all electrical was hooked back up. I will double check all connections when I put back together since it is pretty well stripped down now at least on the front end. Can not imagine floorboards being the problem and had them on for a while before issue began.

Still wondering if it may be a faulty relay or bad gas. Will address the gas issue with some additive and premium at my next fill up. I have not received the new relays I ordered yet or would just install the new ones. Is there any way to really check the current relays? If so, how do you do it and why would the problem only occur at idle and take off? What readings should you get across the relay terminals?

I like a good mystery, but now that we have a couple of dry weather days, I want to ride some also.

Thanks for all of the advice. Will keep all posted on outcomes and fixes tried.

[boborgera]

My approach is usually to go back to the last change before the problems started. That is always great advice, so here goes. The last mod I made was custom built floorboards. During that process, I had a lot of the tupperware off so was extra careful making sure all electrical was hooked back up. I will double check all connections when I put back together since it is pretty well stripped down now at least on the front end. Can not imagine floorboards being the problem and had them on for a while before issue began.

Still wondering if it may be a faulty relay or bad gas. Will address the gas issue with some additive and premium at my next fill up. I have not received the new relays I ordered yet or would just install the new ones. Is there any way to really check the current relays? If so, how do you do it and why would the problem only occur at idle and take off? What readings should you get across the relay terminals?

I like a good mystery, but now that we have a couple of dry weather days, I want to ride some also.

Thanks for all of the advice. Will keep all posted on outcomes and fixes tried.

I know you ruled out the plug wires, But i think you should triple check them. ie, Run the engine in neutral at the RPM,s it's stumbling at and move the wires [shake] with a insulated tool in the dark. Especially at the Booth's.

[M2Wild]

Did you pull the vac lines all the way off and inspect as I had a break in one on the inside and not visible unless taken off. My throttle bodies were probably out of sync because of my mods [hindle, air intake, 02 Mod.] Is your Spyder totally stock? You may just want to replace the relays anyways as they are junk and many people have had problems with them.

and make sure it is routed correctly. Any leaks will throw off the AF ratio.

[NancysToy]

Do the fuel and additive at the first available opportunity. I wouldn't wait until the next fill. It is the most likely suspect and the simplest to check. Rule it out first. JMHO