Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 44 of 44
  1. #26
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Not Here
    Posts
    92,479
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flanker View Post
    Pessimist! As the Captain of the Hindenurg once said, "Adventurers and experimenters are shining beacons of painfully won knowledge for all us". He said that "before" the explosion, in case you were wondering. It's unlikely he'd have had time to say it afterwards. Just sayin............................
    It's the insurance guy in me that does that...

  2. #27
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Not Here
    Posts
    92,479
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rabtech View Post
    You're a genious. All you would have to do it move the rear abs sensor to the front and place it beside one of the front ABS sensors so it can see the same pulse count. I'm on my way to the garage now! And even better idea is to have a switch that would allow you to switch from back to front sensor Ans just leave the back and add a second front one.
    Not me!
    This has been kicked around quite a bit over the years in most all of the forums; I just remembered it a bit better...
    Give us a full report on the outcome, and Good Luck!

  3. #28
    Active Member Nito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Canterbury - UK
    Posts
    78
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I've never been a fan of electronic stability systems and the like. I can see the draw from a manufacturers point of view as they need to cater to a wide audience and the systems ensure a situation is neutralised way before it need become an issue.

    My biggest issue with electronic nannies is that they don't operate in a consistent manner. They are designed to work in a certain manner within a pre-programmed set of parameters relying on feedback from sensors. So fair enough, they may stop the back end sliding out under acceleration or the Spyder lifting its wheel to the point it may topple but these are pretty basic scenarios relying on rudimentary sensors (steering angle input, yaw sensor, wheel speed sensors, tilting sensor?).

    That said, I've done 350 miles with mine and I'm still running it in. I found the light coming on all the time on my way home from work, I commute through country lanes so lots of curves, bumps, off cambers and all sorts. I went around one corner with a mid corner hump and negative camber, one wheel lifted slightly as is expected going fast over a hump, what wasn't expected was the whole system cutting power and applying brakes, in this instance to the one wheel still on the floor causing the bike to lurch to the left on a right hand bend nearly spitting me off the road by virtue of a total imbalance courtesy of the very system which is supposed to prevent accidents veering me into the gutter.

    By trying to suppress certain behaviours, its actually more of a liability and I can't help but feel that I would rather not have it or at least have it switcheable or adjustable in terms of degrees of intervention.

    The other thing I noticed is how a little slip at the rear accelerating through corners, helps the spyder turn and alleviates the forces being generated at the front wheels/through the bars during harder cornering. It allows a certain amount of slip angle before the light flashes, it would be nice if it allowed a bit more but again I can see why they've programmed it as such, last thing you'd want is a highside and they've actually been quite generous in this respect, I was pleasantly suprised they've allowed as much slip and in this instance, the intrusion is subtle.

    What I really object to is the activation of brakes on stability systems. Numbing power is one thing, and should be adjustable, but there are too many variables that make brake intervention dangerous imho. Metal drain covers for example, hit one of these with one wheel while braking and the system will react violently, when you're in an on the limit situation, smoothness is one of the key attributes that will see you through, a violent activation of braking and cutting of power as happened to me isn't the best solution. So these systems are fine if you use your vehicle well within the parameters that the system is designed to activate at, but if you're a bit more enthusiastic and driving right up to the safety parameters that CanAm have set the Spyder up to operate within and constantly bringing the light on, or there are particular unpredictable circumstances, more complicated than a basic wheel slip or lift, then imho their presence is actually more dangerous.

    Is there a simple fuse pull which can deactivate the system and leave the light on while it's deactivated and auto resets on reactivation? If so I'd gladly fit a switch so when pressing on I could have the confidence that nothing is suddenly going to cut in and cause a potential problem. My fate is then in my hands rather than CanAm's! Then when I'm just cruising etc, quite happy to leave it be as I wouldn't be riding in a manner that would cause the system to get upset.

    My 2c
    1330 RT SE6 Timeless Black...
    "Tre Pistoni, Tre Ruote, Tre Mendo"

  4. #29
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Not Here
    Posts
    92,479
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    The test pilots at BRP were able to ride the early "test Mules", without the benefit of the VSS systems...
    They called them "Lawn Darts" dart.jpg

  5. #30
    Active Member Nito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Canterbury - UK
    Posts
    78
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    From the sounds of it, it seems like the system has been refined over the years, I could learn to ride around it happily enough, but the VSS braking and subsequent lurching was a bit disconcerting.

    I wonder what the refinements to the new RSS VSS will be like? Would be nice if they could sell sports upgrades to the VSS.
    1330 RT SE6 Timeless Black...
    "Tre Pistoni, Tre Ruote, Tre Mendo"

  6. #31
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Not Here
    Posts
    92,479
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    I believe that the RS (Or maybe just the RS-S), got a Sport-Tuned version of the system for 2014...

  7. #32
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Yakima
    Posts
    72
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    I believe that the RS (Or maybe just the RS-S), got a Sport-Tuned version of the system for 2014...
    Indeed, the RS-S for 2014 got "retuned" VSS. I had a very brief test ride on one and the difference was marginal at best -- I wasn't even sure I could tell a difference.

    I'll repeat my recommendation from earlier in this thread, BRP should provide several rider-selectable settings just like BMW and other motorcycle manufacturers have done. I'm not recommending the ability to totally disable the system, just provide a few different settings. That would please the enthusiasts and still keep the safety factor up.

    In fact I did not buy an RS-S to go with my wife's ST-S after that test ride for that reason specifically, instead I bought a new R1200GS LC and am loving it. I therefore voted with my dollars.
    Last edited by RandyL; 06-02-2014 at 01:14 PM.
    2019 Ryker 900

  8. #33
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    10,578
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I would not suggest disconnecting the VSS, even if you can. The expert test pilots at BRP, thinking the same thing you are and many others of us have, had a switch for the VSS. As mentioned by 'The Insurance Guy', they said it was very dangerous and tossed a few of them like Lawn Darts (their words, not mine).

    But there are things that you can do to mitigate the Nanny Factor.
    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





  9. #34
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Not Here
    Posts
    92,479
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Have I been reduced to a mere "Occupational Title"?

  10. #35
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,459
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    This thread is funny....

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  11. #36
    Registered Users billrob71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    877
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Have I been reduced to a mere "Occupational Title"?



    How can I get on the Bob plan

  12. #37
    Active Member Nito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Canterbury - UK
    Posts
    78
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyL View Post

    I'll repeat my recommendation from earlier in this thread, BRP should provide several rider-selectable settings just like BMW and other motorcycle manufacturers have done. I'm not recommending the ability to totally disable the system, just provide a few different settings. That would please the enthusiasts and still keep the safety factor up.
    ^ This. BRP, please offer us an optional accessory box with adjustable sports VSS settings.

    I'd like to see the ABS auto activation system be switcheable, so ABS is retained but the auto intervention aspect be switched off completely so it won't kick in and apply braking by itself when it deems it fit to do so. This is my biggest beef with the system, as in certain circumstances it is just plain dangerous and I would ride with this permanently off, but I would like ABS to remain!

    Then adjustable traction control from a scale of say 1-5 to allow more slip angle. In the wet I can imagine it would be very lairy without TC, in the dry it could do with a bit more or even a fair bit more slip angle. I'm not worried about a total lock out on this, wouldn't really want to smoke out my rear tyre but I guess there are some that would.

    Cheers
    Nito
    1330 RT SE6 Timeless Black...
    "Tre Pistoni, Tre Ruote, Tre Mendo"

  13. #38
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SoFlo
    Posts
    2,399
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I suspect DrewNJ mentions funny, but knows also it is a rather complicated setup for owners to alter to achieve every desired result.

    PK

  14. #39
    Very Active Member napper39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    kansas ottawa
    Posts
    1,191
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    i rember when i bought my rs some riders were taking the relay or fuse out that worked the vss and it did work but some got in bad things happining like wheel left,so dont try it. or if you do its not my falt,

  15. #40
    Very Active Member daveinva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    1,661
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Checking back into this thread, I see that in all this time, no one has yet disabled their Nanny to see how the Spyder rides without it.

    Instructions are up above, you're all free to do it, please report back.
    Silver 2010 RS SE5: Triple Play, Taillight, Brightsides, Fender Tips, Easy Risers; Evo Sway Bar; Airhawk R & Beadrider; latch springs; Grab-On grips; Crampbuster; 24" Madstad smoke windshield & deflectors; N-R round bag & soft saddlebags; BRP handlebar bag; Throttlemeister; Spyderpops Missing Air Dam & Air Mgmt System; Rivco driver & passenger boards & pegs; ISCI parking brake extension; Ultimate Midrider Seat w/both backrests, Fox Racing Shocks, Yoshi R-77 exhaust and a whole lotta love!

  16. #41
    Active Member Nito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Canterbury - UK
    Posts
    78
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    ^

    Hi Dave,

    If you're referring to putting the rear sensors on the front, sure it'll prevent any traction control kicking in and allow the rear to spin up, but this isn't where I'm coming from. It would be nice for a bit more slip but I don't want it to spin up and high side.

    Doing the above wouldn't change the 'stability' side involving automatic application of braking or a situation where one wheel is off the ground and so the two fronts are spinning at different speeds again causing application of brakes and cutting of power anyway. Imho, automatic braking is fundamentally wrong and I've had the same issue with cars that feature stability systems. It's great for people who bimble about and are scared of lifting a wheel accidentally, but terrible for owners who do push things a bit further. If you are pressing on its not safe to have VSS take over, because it can react both unexpectedly and inappropriately. I'd like the ability to switch off stability but retain ABS and traction control in differing degrees.

    As it stands I'll just have to learn to ride around it. It's not a massive deal in the grand scheme of things and the bikes are great fun anyway, but in the search for continuous improvement it's one of the few things I've noticed that I really don't feel comfortable with (in 350 miles of ownership anyway) and never have on cars in the past. I fitted an override switch to my old Subaru H6 Legacy Outback because the Vehicle Dynamics Control was terrible and the car was infinitely better without it, far more predictable/consistent when pressing on and ironically more stable! The other thing I've noticed is under hard braking (tested a couple of times to see how it'll react in an emergency) the bike doesn't seem to pull up squarely, it seems to pull to one side. I'll need to monitor this, might be down to everything still bedding in.

    Cheers
    Nito
    1330 RT SE6 Timeless Black...
    "Tre Pistoni, Tre Ruote, Tre Mendo"

  17. #42
    Active Member Nito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Canterbury - UK
    Posts
    78
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Napper, what do you mean by "wheel left"? {edit...do you mean wheel lift?}

    On my Subaru I rigged up a switch that could set the system up to turn off VDC and ABS, or, disable the VDC and retain ABS. I believe Subaru also use a Bosch system so might try employing the same technique on mine to try it out.

    I've also read elsewhere of Nissan owners fitting a switch to the Yaw Rate sensor power or earth, to disable the signal of the yaw rate sensor that apparently had the effect of disabling VDC and EBD but retaining ABS.

    I'm not worried about traction control, I'm sure that could be overcome easily enough by modifying the signal from the rear vehicle speed sensor but don't see a need for that, no point spinning rubber away unnecessarily.

    Looked at the schematics today for the VCM (Vehicle Control Module). The main signals it receives are from the;
    SAS Steering Angle Sensor
    YRS Yaw Rate Sensor
    VSS1 and 2 Front wheel vehicle Speed Sensors
    VSS3 rear wheel vehicle speed sensor
    PRS Pillion Rider Switch which alters the parameters (good idea when pillion on board allows less tom foolery)

    Outputs are basically; application of brakes to any of the wheels or reduction of torque.

    These are pretty much all the sensors which have a bearing on how the VSS reacts. Messing with the speed sensors will no doubt affect the DPS as would the SAS. So perhaps the YRS is where it's at or fooling the system into a fault condition as with the Subaru trick above but then restoring part of the signal which brings the ABS back but in the Subaru's case, leaves the VDC light on but disabled, which is how I ran 100% of the time.

    Cheers
    Nito
    Last edited by Nito; 06-03-2014 at 11:00 AM.
    1330 RT SE6 Timeless Black...
    "Tre Pistoni, Tre Ruote, Tre Mendo"

  18. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Im also interested is disabling this function can anyone please help

  19. #44
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Westerville, OH
    Posts
    861
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
    This subject may have been beat to death but I haven't found an optimal solution yet.

    I'm seeking a way to temporarily disable the "throttle kill" feature of the VSS when cornering at low speeds or making a sharp turn from a stop. I get embarrassed when I'm only going 10 MPH and the engine sputters when attempting to accelerate out of a turn.

    Modifications I've already made to help avoid VSS engagement:

    • Set shock dampers to 5.
    • Set front tire pressure to 18 PSI and rear tire to 28 PSI.
    • Considering a stiffer sway bar.

    To temporarily disable VSS (low speeds only), I'm considering:

    1. Add a switch to temporarily override the rear sensor signal with the front sensor signal. This appears to be a solution others have tried with success. No negative DPS or ABS effects.
    2. Reduce steering angle feedback to the ECU, thus delaying VSS engagement.
    3. Close the parking brake sensor circuit (without actually engaging the parking brake). Not sure what this will do, if anything.
    4. Close the brake pedal sensor circuit (without actually engaging the brakes) to keep the ECU in ABS-only mode. This looks promising and very simple to implement if it works.

    For the record, I'm NOT looking to burn donuts in the street. I simply want to accelerate out of a reasonable turn without the engine cutting out.

    For example, you can easily disable the "throttle kill" feature (DTSC) of the stability control system in an AWD Volvo with the press of a button. It still engages the braking system (with YAW sensor input) to keep everything under control but allows power slides. In fact, the only time I leave DTSC on anymore is in the rain or other adverse conditions.
    I have an early 2015 F3's with Stage 2 upgrade from Monster Fuel Injection & I don't believe I've ever had the Nanny kick in--before or after the upgrade. I do push the F3's quite often--in turns & on the freeway--top speed with Stage 1 upgrade was 118 mph prior to traffic slow down--haven't had the opportunity for top speed run with Stage 2 upgrade but it sure makes a major difference in low speed acceleration. Handles great in sharp turns--SwayBar & Elka Shocks.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •