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  1. #1
    Registered Users lamarguy's Avatar
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    Question Temporarily Disable VSS?

    This subject may have been beat to death but I haven't found an optimal solution yet.

    I'm seeking a way to temporarily disable the "throttle kill" feature of the VSS when cornering at low speeds or making a sharp turn from a stop. I get embarrassed when I'm only going 10 MPH and the engine sputters when attempting to accelerate out of a turn.

    Modifications I've already made to help avoid VSS engagement:

    • Set shock dampers to 5.
    • Set front tire pressure to 18 PSI and rear tire to 28 PSI.
    • Considering a stiffer sway bar.

    To temporarily disable VSS (low speeds only), I'm considering:

    1. Add a switch to temporarily override the rear sensor signal with the front sensor signal. This appears to be a solution others have tried with success. No negative DPS or ABS effects.
    2. Reduce steering angle feedback to the ECU, thus delaying VSS engagement.
    3. Close the parking brake sensor circuit (without actually engaging the parking brake). Not sure what this will do, if anything.
    4. Close the brake pedal sensor circuit (without actually engaging the brakes) to keep the ECU in ABS-only mode. This looks promising and very simple to implement if it works.

    For the record, I'm NOT looking to burn donuts in the street. I simply want to accelerate out of a reasonable turn without the engine cutting out.

    For example, you can easily disable the "throttle kill" feature (DTSC) of the stability control system in an AWD Volvo with the press of a button. It still engages the braking system (with YAW sensor input) to keep everything under control but allows power slides. In fact, the only time I leave DTSC on anymore is in the rain or other adverse conditions.
    Last edited by lamarguy; 10-22-2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Verified #2 and #3 are not effective, added steering angle feedback
    2009 SM5 Phantom - TwoBro's Exhaust, Juice Box Pro, aFe Synthetic Filter, MotoAir "airbag" Jacket, Evo Sway Bar

  2. #2
    Banged Up Member MouthPiece's Avatar
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    My response is not exactly on point, but here it goes. I was having problems with my VSS after having a new corbin seat installed. The VSS was kicking in when I had never experienced it prior to the seat installation.

    My dealer tech found that the sensor located under the seat had been installed upside down by the corbin people. He "righted" it and my VSS has not kicked in since. This includes taking some "power turns" as well as riding in the mountains of North Carolina.

    Chris PE# 0004

  3. #3
    Senile Member M2Wild's Avatar
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    Now if someone can come out with a plug in like the O2 modifier to replace the seat sensor and modify the VSS so we can do a little donuts ... that would worth a few bucks in my mind.
    Silver SM5 PE# 1274, Hindle Exhaust, Touring Windshield, Caliper Trim, B.E.S.T. 3 Year Ext, Nuvi 255 GPS, Fog Lights, Sport Rack, Back Rest, 12V Outlet, Talon 3300p Alarm, NMN Mud Flap and TipZ LEDs, SpyderLovers Emblems, Kuryakyn Widow Pegs and Axel Trim, Luimoto seat skin, Evo Air Filter and O2 Mod, Cranker Tank Bag, Blue Sea fuse block, MAD/AMS/MBG, Oddyssey battery, IPS.

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  4. #4
    Registered Users lamarguy's Avatar
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    I'm trying to avoid the throttle kill as Lamonster demonstrated in the video below:

    2009 SM5 Phantom - TwoBro's Exhaust, Juice Box Pro, aFe Synthetic Filter, MotoAir "airbag" Jacket, Evo Sway Bar

  5. #5
    Registered Users altonk's Avatar
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    Hold down the brake just enough to engage the switch but not calipers
    Works most of the time
    2009 SE5 Aerocharger turbo, Evoluzione Swaybar, Penske racing shocks, 225/45 r15 hankook ventus r-s3 tires all the way around

  6. #6
    Registered Users altonk's Avatar
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    At low speeds it's all about the steering angle sensor
    As soon as you get the bars straight you're good for full throttle

    Reverse trikes are very unstable at low speed and large steering angles.

    I have a reverse recumbent trike with a 50 cc engine on it. No nanny lol it will go 70+ and the only time I ever rolled it was at low speed with a lot of steering angle. It's center of gravity is much lower than the spyder. The roll over is quick unpredictable and very nonlinear.

    I can understand why BRP set the threshold low.
    Try carrying more speed into those corners and accelerate as soon as you get the steering straightened
    Last edited by altonk; 10-21-2010 at 06:05 PM.
    2009 SE5 Aerocharger turbo, Evoluzione Swaybar, Penske racing shocks, 225/45 r15 hankook ventus r-s3 tires all the way around

  7. #7
    Registered Users altonk's Avatar
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    If you disable it you'll end up on your head
    2009 SE5 Aerocharger turbo, Evoluzione Swaybar, Penske racing shocks, 225/45 r15 hankook ventus r-s3 tires all the way around

  8. #8
    Registered Users altonk's Avatar
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    2009 SE5 Aerocharger turbo, Evoluzione Swaybar, Penske racing shocks, 225/45 r15 hankook ventus r-s3 tires all the way around

  9. #9
    Registered Users lamarguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by altonk View Post
    If you disable it you'll end up on your head
    Agreed. I'm not questioning the intent of the stability control (braking individual wheels) to prevent rollovers. However, I am questioning the inability to turn off traction control.

    For example, if you're stuck in the snow you'll inevitably get wheel slippage. That's the primary reason cars equipped with traction control have the ability to turn it off.

    I'll try the light pressure braking trick and see if the ECU cuts engine power during a slow turn. Thanks for the article link too.
    2009 SM5 Phantom - TwoBro's Exhaust, Juice Box Pro, aFe Synthetic Filter, MotoAir "airbag" Jacket, Evo Sway Bar

  10. #10
    Registered Users altonk's Avatar
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    It isn't just traction control at low speeds and high steering angles it's easy to roll the trike with power before wheelspin
    2009 SE5 Aerocharger turbo, Evoluzione Swaybar, Penske racing shocks, 225/45 r15 hankook ventus r-s3 tires all the way around

  11. #11
    Registered Users lamarguy's Avatar
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    Just ran a quick test in a parking lot outside my neighborhood. Closing the brake circuit and/or parking brake circuit does not prevent VSS from cutting engine power.

    The primary factor for VSS engagement appears to be steering angle.
    2009 SM5 Phantom - TwoBro's Exhaust, Juice Box Pro, aFe Synthetic Filter, MotoAir "airbag" Jacket, Evo Sway Bar

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by altonk View Post
    If you disable it you'll end up on your head
    You can whip endless donuts and not land on your head. Taking off you just tail whip and in the rain you can drift curves. ABS and TCS still work also.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
    Just ran a quick test in a parking lot outside my neighborhood. Closing the brake circuit and/or parking brake circuit does not prevent VSS from cutting engine power.

    The primary factor for VSS engagement appears to be steering angle.
    When i come out of a parking lot /driveway /side street, I try to Stop in
    the direction of the way i want to turn ,at a slight angle. Then then when i gun it the VSS doesn't kick in.
    If i try the same turn at a Right angle and gun it the VSS will kick in.
    Now that's the way my Spyder reacts, Not all Spyders act the same.
    Your right about the steering angle, Maybe that angle can be adjusted'?
    so it won't be so sensitive.

  14. #14
    Registered Users lamarguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boborgera View Post
    If i try the same turn at a Right angle and gun it the VSS will kick in.
    Now that's the way my Spyder reacts, Not all Spyders act the same.
    That's how all Spyders react. > 50% steering angle + throttle = engine sputter

    I'd be much happier with > 80% steering angle + throttle = engine sputter

    Quote Originally Posted by boborgera View Post
    Your right about the steering angle, Maybe that angle can be adjusted'?
    so it won't be so sensitive.
    One could certainly reduce the steering angle feedback to the ECU. This would trick the ECU into thinking the wheel is turned less than it actually is and delay VSS engagement.

    This may be the only other viable solution, besides overriding the rear wheel sensor signal with the front wheel sensor signal.
    2009 SM5 Phantom - TwoBro's Exhaust, Juice Box Pro, aFe Synthetic Filter, MotoAir "airbag" Jacket, Evo Sway Bar

  15. #15
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    Just found this old thread after searching around and wondering if anyone ever came up with a way to reduce or temporarily disable VSS. I'm with lamarguy, would love to have it switchable, or at least a seriously reduced setting.
    2019 Ryker 900

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    You can whip endless donuts and not land on your head. Taking off you just tail whip and in the rain you can drift curves. ABS and TCS still work also.
    Justin, how do you know this? You must've found a way to disable VSS, please do tell.
    2019 Ryker 900

  17. #17
    Registered Users Dan_Ashley's Avatar
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    Default Change your techniques

    All MSF riding schools teach that the best way to brake, turn and accelerate is the following:
    Try to never brake after initiating a turn, turn, maintain speed with slight throttle through the turn then accelerate when the bike is straight again. They call this maintaining your line. They also teach if you must brake in a turn to straighten the bike first. Clearly these are techniques for the novice rider, but they are well founded in the physics and geometry of motorcycles.

    Perhaps it would help your Spyder riding if you practiced some of these in an empty parking lot.
    Dan

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Ashley View Post
    All MSF riding schools teach that the best way to brake, turn and accelerate is the following:
    Try to never brake after initiating a turn, turn, maintain speed with slight throttle through the turn then accelerate when the bike is straight again. They call this maintaining your line. They also teach if you must brake in a turn to straighten the bike first. Clearly these are techniques for the novice rider, but they are well founded in the physics and geometry of motorcycles.
    Perhaps it would help your Spyder riding if you practiced some of these in an empty parking lot.
    Thanks Dan, but what I'm after is a bit less restriction so I can feel more of the vehicle dynamics while still remaining safe. Based on comments in the forum I can see I'm not alone. Also, BRP must be getting the same feedback or they wouldn't have made the following change for 2014...

    "NEW Sport-tuned VSS calibration for faster cornering and maximum agility (RS-S ONLY)"

    Glad they seem to be listening. One last data point, check out the latest generation electronic controls on the new and well-reviewed BMW R1200GS... five different riding modes where ABS, TCS, and yaw control settings are all changed to allow the rider to both adapt to different circumstances but also preferences based on how much protection they want.
    2019 Ryker 900

  19. #19
    Registered Users Dan_Ashley's Avatar
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    Good point.
    Dan

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  20. #20
    Registered Users billrob71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyL View Post
    Thanks Dan, but what I'm after is a bit less restriction so I can feel more of the vehicle dynamics while still remaining safe. Based on comments in the forum I can see I'm not alone. Also, BRP must be getting the same feedback or they wouldn't have made the following change for 2014...

    "NEW Sport-tuned VSS calibration for faster cornering and maximum agility (RS-S ONLY)"

    Glad they seem to be listening. One last data point, check out the latest generation electronic controls on the new and well-reviewed BMW R1200GS... five different riding modes where ABS, TCS, and yaw control settings are all changed to allow the rider to both adapt to different circumstances but also preferences based on how much protection they want.

    I agree with ya 100% this is my sole complaint with my bike. I like to ride it more aggressive most of the time. Accelerating out of the apex on a sweeping turn, little harder on the throttle and not mattering how you lean nanny gets mad and shuts ya down, which Im trying to get used to but been couple times thats it's kicked in and feels like im going over the bars or off the side. I'm hoping the calibration is something that can be retro programed to the older bikes, I don't wanna make a gamble on a 2014 $1000 VSS module.

  21. #21
    Very Active Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    I'm not advocating that this be tried...
    Since the combination of wheelspin and steering angle is what triggers Nanny to wake up...
    And you have no way to kill off the steering angle sensor...
    Take the aspeed sensor off of the rear wheel, and piggyback it's signal from one of the fronts!
    Your bike will think that the wheelspeeds are all the same; no wheelspin!

    BUT IF YOU GO ON YOUR HEAD; you were told NOT to try this!

  22. #22
    Very Active Member daveinva's Avatar
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    "Considering a stiffer sway bar" isn't a modification, it's considering a modification.

    Then again, your sig says you have the Evo bar...

    For the record, I've got an Evo bar, plus I sprung for a pair of Fox shocks (they work fine on early RS/GS models). My Nanny experience isn't nearly as harsh as yours, but everybody seems to have a different ride. (How far off do you hang in sharp, slow turns? You get far better results the further off you hang).

    That all said... we ride trikes. Trikes at sharp, slow turns lift wheels. The Nanny kicks in when this happens. Disabling the Nanny won't stop your wheels from lifting in turns-- that part is physics-- which means it won't do anything to increase your speed in turns. What it *will* do is prevent your Spyder from returning its wheels to the ground, unless you yourself are faster than the Nanny in applying brake and modulating throttle.

    Seeing as you're a human being like myself, I doubt that this is true.

    Anyway, like your link describes, there's a way of disabling the VSS. Why don't you try that and ride around a big open lot for a while, and report your results?
    Silver 2010 RS SE5: Triple Play, Taillight, Brightsides, Fender Tips, Easy Risers; Evo Sway Bar; Airhawk R & Beadrider; latch springs; Grab-On grips; Crampbuster; 24" Madstad smoke windshield & deflectors; N-R round bag & soft saddlebags; BRP handlebar bag; Throttlemeister; Spyderpops Missing Air Dam & Air Mgmt System; Rivco driver & passenger boards & pegs; ISCI parking brake extension; Ultimate Midrider Seat w/both backrests, Fox Racing Shocks, Yoshi R-77 exhaust and a whole lotta love!

  23. #23
    Very Active Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    ...After you're out of the hospital; of course!

  24. #24
    Very Active Member Flanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    ...After you're out of the hospital; of course!
    Pessimist! As the Captain of the Hindenurg once said, "Adventurers and experimenters are shining beacons of painfully won knowledge for all us". He said that "before" the explosion, in case you were wondering. It's unlikely he'd have had time to say it afterwards. Just sayin............................

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  25. #25
    Registered Users rabtech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    I'm not advocating that this be tried...
    Since the combination of wheelspin and steering angle is what triggers Nanny to wake up...
    And you have no way to kill off the steering angle sensor...
    Take the aspeed sensor off of the rear wheel, and piggyback it's signal from one of the fronts!
    Your bike will think that the wheelspeeds are all the same; no wheelspin!

    BUT IF YOU GO ON YOUR HEAD; you were told NOT to try this!
    Your a genious. All you would have to do it move the rear abs sensor to the front and place it beside one of the front ABS sensors so it can see the same pulse count. I'm on my way to the garage now! And even better idea is to have a switch that would allow you to switch from back to front sensor Ans just leave the back and add a second front one.

    Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!
    Last edited by rabtech; 09-25-2013 at 08:27 PM.

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