Connecticut Ryders - will you help?

[mindman]

Hi Fellow CT Ryders!
I am the proud owner of a month old RT-S. My wife and I love it. My wife would love to pilot it, but does not have a motorcycle endorsement, and is intimidated by two-wheelers. She could NEVER get a full motorcycle endorsement. And I believe she should not have to!

Today I sent CT DMV an email requesting they review their policy regarding this. I've copied it below. I'm hoping that you'll join me and send your own version of the same (feel free to copy all or part of mine).

Emails should be sent to Mail@dmvct.gov
Thanks for your help!!!
************************************************** ***
Dear DMV,
I am writing to request that the CT Department of motor vehicles review the existing definitions of "Motorcycle" and to consider not requiring a motorcycle endorsement for Models of the Can-Am Spyder Roadster built by BRP (Link Below) - as is the case in the states of Delaware and California. As an alternative, and to ensure prospective operators know the rules of motorcycling, CT could require the written and on-vehicle tests, but allow applicants to take the on-vehicle test on a Spyder and receive an endorsement perhaps limited to 3 wheeled vehicles only.

Unlike traditional "Trikes" (2 wheels in the rear), one of the main attractions of the spyder is the stability that placing the two wheels in the front provides.. People who yearn for the experience of open road riding but are not willing to take the risks involved, or who lack the physical abilities/balance to operate a two-wheeler are attracted to it.

My wife and I currently own a Spyder RT-S (touring version). While I have my motorcycle endorsement, My wife is one of those people described above. She is intimidated by a motorcycle and it's two wheels, and has a bad knee. She is perfectly capable of piloting the Spyder however, is not intimidated by it, and has confidence in it's stability. Again I must emphasize that the Spyder's stability is much better than the traditional "Trike".

I understand and agree that decisions like these should not be made lightly. I do however encourage you to investigate the policy - especially as it pertains to the Spyder Roadster Family. I am happy to participate in any investigative study.

Thank you for your time and attention. I'm looking forward to receiving a positive response, and to working with you on the specifics of this issue.

***Note: Please be sure to include your name, address, phone number and CT driver's license number.

[3Ryder]

Good luck. Wish I could help directly but I no longer live in CT. From reading many posts, I sense that there are more than a few states that have special 3-wheel endorsements. Would it be worthwhile to catalogue them and provide that info to the DMV. You can bet that none of those folks will care to take the initiative. You may have to spoon feed them the things they need to consider.

[M2Wild]

1. DMV don't set the policy, the State does and you get at that by writing to your State Reps.

2. Spyder is more M/C than car and I would lean more towards a 3-wheeler licensing instaed. I sure don't want a bunch of cagers hopping on their 3-wheeler thinking it drives just like a car. JMO

[3Ryder]

From a quick scan of posts, I came up with this list. Can't guarantee its accuracy, but it might be a good start:

Maryland – has a 3-wheel test & endorsement
Michigan – required to develop one but not done so yet
West Virginia – 3-wheel endorsement
Ohio – 3-wheel endorsement
Arizona – 3-wheel endorsement
Illinois - 3-wheel endorsement
Alaska - 3-wheel endorsement?
New York - 3-wheel endorsement
Washington - 3-wheel endorsement
Florida - 3-wheel endorsement
Missouri - 3-wheel endorsement

Good luck...

[mindman]

Thanks ! M2Wild....duh....I should of thought of that.
3Ryder - thanks for doing the research.
Later today I'll send a version to my state rep including the additional info.
Hoping others will do the same.

[SpyderAnn01]

Michigan has a 3 wheel endorsement but has not "developed" a specific 3 wheel road test and per NancysToys they leave the road test up to the individual testing facility.

[mindman]

Thanks again to the ryders who pointed me in the right direction regarding how to promote this idea more effectively. Below is the email I have sent to my state representative. Again - if you're a CT resident and would like to help, please feel free to copy as much or as little of this as you'd like.
**************************************
Dear nnnnnnn,
As a constituent I am writing to request that you investigate and consider championing a review of our state's existing statutes and policies with respect to 3 wheeled vehicles - specifically models of the Can-Am Spyder Roadster built by BRP (Link Below).

At present, 2 states do not currently require a motorcycle endorsement at all. In my opinion though, a more sensible alternative is for CT to require both the written and on-vehicle tests, but allow applicants to take the on-vehicle test on a Spyder and receive an endorsement limiting the operator to 3 wheeled vehicles only. This would help ensure prospective operators know the rules of motorcycling, demonstrate proficiency on the vehicle involved, but also recognize the significant difference between a traditional motorcycle and vehicles such as the Spyder Family.

Unlike traditional "Trikes" (2 wheels in the rear), one of the main attractions of the Spyder is the stability that placing the two wheels in the front provides. People who yearn for the experience of open road riding but are not willing to take the risks involved in riding a motorcycle, or who lack the physical abilities/balance to operate a two-wheeler are attracted to it.

My wife and I currently own a Spyder RT-S (touring version). While I have my motorcycle endorsement and in fact ride a two-wheeler also, My wife is one of those people described above. She is intimidated by a motorcycle and it's two wheels, and has a bad knee. She is perfectly capable of piloting the Spyder however, is not intimidated by it, and has confidence in it's stability. Again I must emphasize that the Spyder's stability is much better than the traditional "Trike". It would be a shame for her not to be able to enjoy driving this vehicle because CT policy did not keep up with the advances in technology this "new breed" of vehicle represents.

I understand and agree that decisions like these should not be made lightly. I do however encourage you to investigate the situation - especially as it pertains to the Spyder Roadster Family. I am happy to participate in any investigative study, or discussions on this issue.

Thank you very much for your time and attention. I'm looking forward to receiving a positive response, and to working with you on the specifics of this issue.

Kind Regards,
****Provide you name, address, and other relevant contact information


Can-Am Spyder Web sitehttp://spyder.brp.com/en-US

States that do not require motorcycle licenses:
California
Delaware

States that provide 3 wheel only motorcycle endorsements
Maryland – has a 3-wheel test & endorsement
Michigan – 3-wheel endorsement.
West Virginia – 3-wheel endorsement
Ohio – 3-wheel endorsement
Arizona – 3-wheel endorsement
Illinois - 3-wheel endorsement
Alaska - 3-wheel endorsement?
New York - 3-wheel endorsement
Washington - 3-wheel endorsement
Florida - 3-wheel endorsement
Missouri - 3-wheel endorsement

[SpyderWolf]

You can add South Carolina to your list of states that do not require a motorcycle endorsement to operate the Spyder.

[M2Wild]

I could sware there are only two states out there that don't need a m/c license to ride a Spyder .... didn't know there is a third (unless something changed recently).

[mindman]

I heard back from my state representative and she indicates she will research. She wrote she would also call me to discuss it. At least first indication is receptive. I'll post updates as warranted.

[SpyderWolf]

I could sware there are only two states out there that don't need a m/c license to ride a Spyder .... didn't know there is a third (unless something changed recently).

The governor made the change last summer for South Carolina. Used to need a drivers license, motorcycle endorsement, and a 3 wheel vehicle endorsement. He said that was ridiculous and did away with the motorcycle and 3 wheel endorsements. You probably never heard about it as most of the news media was concentrating on a certain South American "issue" he was having.

[M2Wild]

I heard back from my state representative and she indicates she will research. She wrote she would also call me to discuss it. At least first indication is receptive. I'll post updates as warranted.

Pretty quick response. Guess it must be an election year. Good timing.

[mindman]

I received a phone call from CT. state representative Sandy Nafis yesterday evening. We discussed my letter at length. At the end of the conversation Ms. Nafis promised to introduce a bill into the state legislature to allow license testing on a 3 wheeled vehicle and a 3 wheel only motorcycle endorsement during the next legislative session after the Holidays - so some time in January. She'll keep me posted on developments as they occur.

Way to go Sandy !

[SpyderAnn01]

[M2Wild]

I received a phone call from CT. state representative Sandy Nafis yesterday evening. We discussed my letter at length. At the end of the conversation Ms. Nafis promised to introduce a bill into the state legislature to allow license testing on a 3 wheeled vehicle and a 3 wheel only motorcycle endorsement during the next legislative session after the Holidays - so some time in January. She'll keep me posted on developments as they occur.

Way to go Sandy !

Fantastic!!! Looks like you are making headways.

[MadMac]

Wow thats great please drop me a line when you hear something.. I just found this site & not only is it great but,i'm really glad i did. I owned my spyder when my ol'lady & I met. She loves it but, she doesn't think she can get her bike liceance cuz shes all of 5foot tall in heels. Although she handles the spyder like a pro this cud make her & me so much happier than try'n to find a bike short enuff for her to use just 2 practice on for her test & never use again. Thanks alot & if you need me 2 write a letter or make a phone call let me know. Trust me you guys aren't the only 1's out there that feel this way. I dont want just any idiot out there rideing & giveing all of us a bad name but, not everyone has the want or ability for 2 wheels...

[ctpaddler2000]

As a long time CT resident i doubt this bill would pass. Things just take to long to happen in CT. In addition, there are some three wheelers that still require real motorcycle skills. Like the Piaggio MP3.

There is no way to do a skill test in CT. They no longer test at DMV and the safety course is not set up for trikes.

I would recommend that your wife find a safety course that offers the course on "twist and go" scooters. Most of the locations do not have scooters, but a few do.

[ctpaddler2000]

I received a phone call from CT. state representative Sandy Nafis yesterday evening. We discussed my letter at length. At the end of the conversation Ms. Nafis promised to introduce a bill into the state legislature to allow license testing on a 3 wheeled vehicle and a 3 wheel only motorcycle endorsement during the next legislative session after the Holidays - so some time in January. She'll keep me posted on developments as they occur.

Way to go Sandy !

She has not introduced this bill. She had however introduced 12 other bills. One is to establish an official state waltz. Glad to see my tax dollars are being put to good use.

Official State Waltz

[M2Wild]

Call her office and let her know that you will be speaking to the Hartford Courant next. Topic will be Waltz vs. citizen's needs.

[WJS]

I went through this last Spring (2010). I have no interest in riding motorcycles yet they would not let me test on the Spyder because they "weren't setup for it" even though the endorsement is required to ride one. I wrote the DMV and never heard back.

My advice to your wife; you can obtain the endorsement on the scooters. Take the Connecticut Rider Education Program. As of 2011, it's the only way you can get the endorsement in CT. Take the class over one weekend and get it over with. It's a long weekend but no sense dragging it out over a couple of weeks.

http://www.ct.gov/dot/cwp/view.asp?q=259456

The instructors take the course very seriously. DON'T BE LATE, EVER! They'll make you take the course completely over again. Some do at least.

[mindman]

OK....It's 4 years later and I never gave up! Below is my latest email with the good news coming in today's update from Connecticut State Representative Rick Lopez. For those who don't want to read my long argument, here's the bottom line from Rick:

"Bob,
This seems almost too easy. I met with DMV and they are working with DOT to solve your issue. They are getting two used 3 wheel bikes for the tests and hope to have the program up and running in under a year."


"Too Easy" took me 4 years, but looks like it's going to happen! Can't wait for it to be reality.


****************Original Email earlier this year ****************************
Dear Mr. Seymour,
I believe that our state's licensing requirements for 3-wheeled vehicles is out of step with mainstream practice throughout the country and needs to be changed. I am writing to ask for your help and/or direction in how I can best work with the appropriate people in state government to make this change happen.. The practice I'm referring to is the CT requirement that new operators who want to drive 3-wheeled vehicles such as the Can-Am Spyder take the Basic Rider Education course and test on a 2 wheeled vehicle such as a motorcycle or scooter. I would like to see the practice changed to allow the basic rider course and test to be taken on the 3 wheeled vehicle that would be used. For your consideration, here are some relevant statistics.
I've researched the 3 wheeled vehicle operator licensing and testing requirements for all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Out of these:

45 Require a motorcycle license
2 States have a 3 wheel only (M-3) option available
3 States allow just a regular automobile driver's license.
(I could not find information on North Carolina's licensing requirement).

* The clear majority practice is for a motorcycle license. I believe that is a sound choice as obtaining a motorcycle or M-3 endorsement in connection with a rider education course ensures that licensees are aware of the special considerations 2 and 3-wheeled operators need to take into account when on the road.


Here's where I think Connecticut and 6 other states (Alaska, Alabama, Delaware, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Wyoming) got it wrong.
Of the 47 States that require a motorcycle license or 3 wheeled endorsement:

38 allow the test using a 3 wheeled vehicle
7 (see above) require the test be taken on 2 wheels
(I did not find information on North Carolina and New Hampshire)

* The clear majority practice in this case is to allow the test to be taken on the 3 wheeled vehicle that will be operated. If you think about it, it makes sense.
I can provide you a detailed breakdown by state of the various requirements if you'd like.
Requiring the operator of a 3 wheeled vehicle such as the Can-Am Spyder to obtain a motorcycle license using a 2 wheeled vehicle is not unlike requiring every new automobile driver in the state to take their driver's education, training. and test using a commercial 18 wheel tractor trailer. It places a skill level requirement out of proportion to the type of vehicle the individual intends to operate.

In addition to the fact that CT is among the clear minority it its practice there are some other very legitimate reasons to amend how we treat 3 wheeled vehicles. Three-wheeled vehicles (and specifically the Can-Am Spyder) appeal to some two wheeled riders, but also a sub-demographic of people who:

Are afraid or reluctant to ride a two-wheeler.
Lack the balance to properly navigate a two-wheeler at low speeds such as in a parking lot
Are unable to support the weight of a two-wheeler with their legs when stopped - such as 2 wheeled riders who through age, illness or injury have lost that ability.
I'm sure you -like me- can think of several types of people who fit in one or more of these categories. In the case of a two wheeled licensed rider that no longer feels comfortable on those two wheels, it's no problem. They already have their M-endorsement. But CT practice (inadvertently I'm sure) discriminates against NEW riders in the above categories by requiring a higher level skill set than required to operate the desired vehicle (ref. back to the tractor trailer analogy).
In my personal situation, I have an M endorsement and ride a two wheeler, and a spyder. My wife however, has bad knees and cannot support a two-wheeled vehicle. She would like to be able to drive the spyder but is unable to do so because she would have to take the basic rider education course and test using a two-wheeled motorcycle or scooter.

I believe that changing CT practice to be more in line with the majority of states in the US is a more realistic and inclusive approach by more accurately matching operator license requirements to the vehicle to be operated. Once again I would like to work with the appropriate person(s) within the DMV and/or the state legislature towards getting these changes made. Any help or guidance you can give me will be most appreciated.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration. I'm looking forward to hearing back from you and perhaps working together. In the meantime, if you are not familiar with the Can-Am Spyder and would like to see one and learn more about it I am more than happy to come by your office one day with mine.

Sincerely,
Robert (Bob) Harrington

********After No response from Mr Seymour, follow-up with state reps. *******************
Dear Representatives Nafis, Guerrerra, and Lopes
I am forwarding an email I sent today to Mr. William Seymour, the Director of Communications for the CT DMV. In that email I am asking for his help in addressing what I see as an inequity in CT licensing requirements for 3 wheeled vehicles specifically the Can-Am Spyder.

I would also like to solicit your involvement and help in changing our State's practice in this regard.

Please see the included email for more information. After reading it I'm confident you will agree with my position that our practice needs to change and will be willing to help me. In all honesty, representative Nafis and I attempted to address this a few years ago without much success. Now that this industry and all 50 states have had time to mature in their thinking, I'm hoping a more current effort will meet with better success.

Thank you very much for your attention and time. I'm looking forward to your response, and to working with you in the future.
Sincerely
Robert (Bob) Harrington


***************And finally....(Skipping a few status updates)....received this today **************
Bob,

This seems almost too easy. I met with DMV and they are working with DOT to solve your issue. They are getting two used 3 wheel bikes for the tests and hope to have the program up and running in under a year.

Sincerely,

Rick

[SpydermanCT]

Bob thank you for your persistence and please keep me posted.

[Eagle1]

Two used three wheelers that an applicant has not ridden? Ask to have the test on your machine that the applicant has driven and is proficient on. it is safer and they will have more confidence. As a former DMV. License examiner one of the biggest mistakes was someone bringing in a bike that was not theirs and use it, because it was smaller.

[Vidman]

Bob, Thank you for your persistence.

For the time being I think CTPaddler's suggestion about scooters (twist and go) will be of help to many without the license. There are a couple of locations that comply.

Also, Hartford Vespa/Scooter Centrale is having their Open House on Saturday Sept 21st from 10 am till 6 pm. Pat Cruess will be giving safety instruction around 10 am. He has been instrumental in getting Scooter Testing at the MC Safety courses in CT. This man is a wealth of information in the total Motorcycle industry.

I am hoping CT DMV and the State of CT will come along with the other forward looking states.