SPYDER RTS STEERING PROBLEM - WARNING!

[CSX4350]

Interesting, my 2009 GS Phantom behaved exactly as you describe your RT-S behaving. Since it only lived for 4 days before getting totalled out, I didn't have a chance to ask about the uncontrollability. My new RT-S is a night & day difference from my old GS, I kind of assumed that the handling problem was the rider and that I was now riding the Spyder properly. It would appear that I may have had a problem with the old Phantom.

[SpyderFun]

... In all honesty, unless you have a mechanical or electronic issue, it is simply you needing to relax your grip and turn off your "Muscle" memory.

... These RT's do not respond like any other motorcycle I have ever ryden. And frankly take a little bit to get used to.

... I too was in this position, and learned it was me needing to adjust. Not the bike

I have ridden motorcycles all over the world and will have to say that this machine reminds me very much of how an airplane handles.

What I mean is this, a driver cannot "man-handle" it or it will fight you every step of the way! And your muscles will loose the battle over aerodynamics and hydraulics. A rider has to "work with the machine" and simply get a good "feel" for it. I am sure that a RS, RT and RT-S have different, if not distinctive, handling characteristics, but that does not imply there is something fundamentally or inherently flawed to the point of it impacting public safety.
These "Spyders" are simply different.

Finally, if anyone has been an owner for any length of time, then you should know what "feels right" and what does not. This means that your issue(s) is likely bike (ie SN) specific and not a fleet-wide issue.

-Ride Smart and Ride Safe!

[BumbleBee]

My RT-S has been great. The only thing I have noticed is that there is little bit too much body roll when cornering. I just have to be gentle and not over steer. Not enouth to really worry about.


Straight and steady is mine.

Sorry to hear about yours, sounds like something is wrong with yours.

[NancysToy]

I have ridden motorcycles all over the world and will have to say that this machine reminds me very much of how an airplane handles.

What I mean is this, a driver cannot "man-handle" it or it will fight you every step of the way! And your muscles will loose the battle over aerodynamics and hydraulics. A rider has to "work with the machine" and simply get a good "feel" for it. I am sure that a RS, RT and RT-S have different, if not distinctive, handling characteristics, but that does not imply there is something fundamentally or inherently flawed to the point of it impacting public safety.
These "Spyders" are simply different.

Finally, if anyone has been an owner for any length of time, then you should know what "feels right" and what does not. This means that your issue(s) is likely bike (ie SN) specific and not a fleet-wide issue.

-Ride Smart and Ride Safe!

This is true, but experienced Spyder ryders like IdleUp and me, know the difference...and how to handle one properly. That is why an "evil" RT comes as such a shock. The RT may have a slightly different "feel", much like different planes respond a bit differently to the controls, but the basics are the same. Nobody with thousands of miles of Spyder experience should be "surprised" by an RT. When this happens, there is something wrong, and it needs to be fixed.

The neophyte Spyder ryder, on the other hand, needs to be very aware of the issues you raise. This is especially true for the RT. This is not the motorcycle of your youth...or even the sports car you put around the course at Laguna Seca. It is a different critter altogether. Developing the proper feel for the controls takes a little practice.

[Tonga]

I had problems with my RT going down the road at anything over 50 mph. Yes, the alignment was done and it helped very much. I must say that road conditions do affect this Touring model because of the weight and bulk pushing through the wind. I did add the sawybar and going around corners at slower speed helps alot but the mass doing it at a spirited ride is another story. My GS was great and my wife just thinks the comfort is worth going slow through the turns but, would " Buy " another one? no way. I think the front shocks need a stiffer spring rate and more adjustability. You are right Scotty about Caster setting but we can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, so to speak. Lots of money spent and I think BRP had something out there but might have taken a wrong turn. Hope they get back on track.

[IdleUp]

Bottom line they should have left the front end alone - the older Spyder had a great ride which was twice as soft as my Goldwing so why did they have to screw up a good thing.

What really kills me is after all the steering problems they had from the get-go it would seem they would have worked the problems out on the RT!

[NancysToy]

Bottom line they should have left the front end alone - the older Spyder had a great ride which was twice as soft as my Goldwing so why did they have to screw up a good thing.

Had to do something. The RT is taller and heavier, with a slightly different weight distribution. That requires changes. IMO, it could have used a few more.

[widowmaker2011]

Contrary to what most others have done setup wise , after riding a couple thousand miles with the front shocks on my RTS cranked full hard and the rear set to 3/4 firm, I cranked the front shocks back to midway and set the rear suspension at half while I was in North Carolina before our trip back to NY . I weigh 250 and run with about 20 pounds of junk loaded most of the time. It has now been 1200 miles since I softened it up and I haven't looked back. I went into a 20 mph corner yesterday at 60 mph and it cut it like butter. I loosened it up after getting a bit annoyed at the harshness on sharp bumps. Maybe I've just been riding sleds for so many years that I have this whole 2 wheels (or 2 skis) in front thing figured out and the handling is second nature. I am very happy with the softer settings and a tiny bit of body english is all it takes to keep the body-roll at bay. Just my 2 cents.

[IdleUp]

Hey widowmaker have you looked into a stiffer sway bar or does anyone even make one for the RT?

[spyman2010]

I traded my 2006 Wing because of health reasons just couldn't hold it up anymore, legs are shot. When I first rode my new RT found the steering to be a little spooky. I felt that every time I went into a turn that it would tip. Put the front shocks to the highest setting, (5) and increased my air pressure. I've had the RT up to over 90 mph, and in the turns at over 60 with trailer. I've only lifted a wheel one time, and the VSS reacted, and put me back down. Found that you can't turn the bars hard or you will change lanes fast. I use a very small amount of pressure on the bars by pushing into the turns, and this seems to work best. This is my first three wheeler, and as I get used to it I'm loveing it more everyday. Fast approching 5000 miles. Good luck in getting your ride back on the road.

[IdleUp]

Sounds like you're getting the hang of it - I've had my standardSpyder for almost a few years now and was thing about trading my Goldwing trike but it's beginning to look like a mistake. The Goldwind track like a car going down the road. Might have to re-think this . .

Here's a few images of my Goldwing

I traded my 2006 Wing because of health reasons just couldn't hold it up anymore, legs are shot. When I first rode my new RT found the steering to be a little spooky. I felt that every time I went into a turn that it would tip. Put the front shocks to the highest setting, (5) and increased my air pressure. I've had the RT up to over 90 mph, and in the turns at over 60 with trailer. I've only lifted a wheel one time, and the VSS reacted, and put me back down. Found that you can't turn the bars hard or you will change lanes fast. I use a very small amount of pressure on the bars by pushing into the turns, and this seems to work best. This is my first three wheeler, and as I get used to it I'm loveing it more everyday. Fast approching 5000 miles. Good luck in getting your ride back on the road.

[Tonga]

I have made a decision to order the Elka shocks. A big decision as they are expensive but I want to get my RT to just handle better. The soft sprung front end needs a change even if it is just Dampening adjustment but springs that can be adjusted better come along with the shocks. I just hoped someone had gone down this road before me so here I go. I am ordering a set for the front today and will give my weight requirements hoping to help the stop or slow the front end diving into the corners. I found tight turns were aggreviated even more with 20 to 30 lbs of luggage. Driving alone seems fine but adding another person and gear makes this touring model feel heavier. As I have said in the past, take a GS or RS put 2 people on it and add another 230 lbs of balast, Whooo.

[retired1]

Tonga;
Lamont had a post on these shocks when he put them on his RTS. I don't remember the gist of the post, but that would be a good place to start for an honest assesment of the effect of the "swap".

[widowmaker2011]

Hey widowmaker have you looked into a stiffer sway bar or does anyone even make one for the RT?

I have not used one on my RT, have ridden a GS with one. There is one available for the RT but it is my understanding that it is only marginally larger and does not make a huge difference , where the GS aftermarket swaybar was a BIG difference maker.

[Sopher]

Hey Mike Mas,
It definetely sounds like a defective module. I would make the dealer swap out the parts or make way for an even swap of your bike for one of the others that runs fine. Dealer prep at unpacking time could also be of issue. But all in all, definetely repairable and resolvable under warranty.

p.s. check out this link:http://www.nehelicrew.com/Phenom.aspx

[Prense01]

Contrary to what most others have done setup wise , after riding a couple thousand miles with the front shocks on my RTS cranked full hard and the rear set to 3/4 firm, I cranked the front shocks back to midway and set the rear suspension at half while I was in North Carolina before our trip back to NY . I weigh 250 and run with about 20 pounds of junk loaded most of the time. It has now been 1200 miles since I softened it up and I haven't looked back. I went into a 20 mph corner yesterday at 60 mph and it cut it like butter. I loosened it up after getting a bit annoyed at the harshness on sharp bumps. Maybe I've just been riding sleds for so many years that I have this whole 2 wheels (or 2 skis) in front thing figured out and the handling is second nature. I am very happy with the softer settings and a tiny bit of body english is all it takes to keep the body-roll at bay. Just my 2 cents.

I have the same thoughts on this. I ride with the front shocks at mid range and the rear at mid range. When my wife comes along, I inflate the rear fully.

I love the feel and handling of this machine!

Chris

[IdleUp]

Thanks for the replies - however the shock is going to dampen a bump or unevenness in the road and that's not the problem with the RT and RTS. Our problem is the ride is too soft and therefore as you're driving down the road the body is rolling to the right and left with pitches in the road and wind gusts changing the geometrics from the DPS to the linkages causing the DPS to over-react. Bottom line unlike the older Spyders the RT and RTS is always trying to stabilize itself.

Testimonial to this is as you add a passenger and increase the top-end center of gravity the problem gets worse because now there is more roll factor.

[ThreeWheels]

Did you ever get your alignment checked out ??

I hope so. As I posted, it made all the difference int he world for me.

[IdleUp]

Well I guess - sort of - but I'm not sure it was done correct!

[widowmaker2011]

Thanks for the replies - however the shock is going to dampen a bump or unevenness in the road and that's not the problem with the RT and RTS. Our problem is the ride is too soft and therefore as you're driving down the road the body is rolling to the right and left with pitches in the road and wind gusts changing the geometrics from the DPS to the linkages causing the DPS to over-react. Bottom line unlike the older Spyders the RT and RTS is always trying to stabilize itself.

Testimonial to this is as you add a passenger and increase the top-end center of gravity the problem gets worse because now there is more roll factor.

I wouldn't go quite that far , I weigh 250 , wife 140 and we ride fully loaded with the front shocks at half setting and rear at 3/4. Even with those setting we are straight as an arrow unless you in some REAL twisties.

[IdleUp]

Well - that just shows I have a problem - so your saying when your going down the road and as the bike hits dips and the body rolls to the right and left there is absolutely no interaction to the steering?

If this is the case you might have a special bike.

The best way I can explain it is; on my standard Spyder when I go around a curve, I have to push the bars to make the turn. On all three bike at the dealership mine include - as I pushed the bars it would have some resistance but then all of a sudden it over-steers - you pull back and the long and short of it you have to constantly keep correcting it through a turn.

[widowmaker2011]

Well - that just shows I have a problem - so your saying when your going down the road and as the bike hits dips and the body rolls to the right and left there is absolutely no interaction to the steering?

If this is the case you might have a special bike.

The best way I can explain it is; on my standard Spyder when I go around a curve, I have to push the bars to make the turn. On all three bike at the dealership mine include - as I pushed the bars it would have some resistance but then all of a sudden it over-steers - you pull back and the long and short of it you have to constantly keep correcting it through a turn.

I owned 2 Original Spyders and I own 2 RTS's now. I don't have any of those symptoms- I will say this however , I felt awkward on the RTs for a few hundred miles and seemed to be always correcting the steering. I guess I just learned a better body position. I do know I use very very little effort to steer and keep a light grip. But yes I'm saying it takes almost no steering interaction in the scenario you describe. First few hundred miles , different story.

[NancysToy]

Well - that just shows I have a problem - so your saying when your going down the road and as the bike hits dips and the body rolls to the right and left there is absolutely no interaction to the steering?

If this is the case you might have a special bike.

The best way I can explain it is; on my standard Spyder when I go around a curve, I have to push the bars to make the turn. On all three bike at the dealership mine include - as I pushed the bars it would have some resistance but then all of a sudden it over-steers - you pull back and the long and short of it you have to constantly keep correcting it through a turn.

The oversteer and veering whenever you hit a bump or the wind blows, is a classic symptom of toe-out. My Spyder had the same problem, until it the sensors were zeroed and it was aligned according to the manual. Now it is very good...with the front shocks set up to limit the wallow. It no longer dives into a turn, requiring reverse resistance on the bars. It did so before the repairs. I never set the back higher than necessary, it increases the steering sensitivity. Yes, the RT/RTS reacts to the wind and bumps more than the RS. It is the same way a Goldwing reacts more than a crotch rocket. Softer suspension and a huge sail out front. That is the nature of touring bikes. With proper alignment and a little rider adjustment, it is very manageable, however.

[IdleUp]

Thanks Scotty - I'm going to peruse getting the front end re-aligned. This sounds exactly how mine is acting.

Thanks

[Sopher]

Somewhere is a thread on how to check and set alignment yourself.
few tools are needed, like laser levels and a two long pieces of straight bar or board.