Disappointment

[Sarge707]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

Try NOT to use caps "Please" its like shouting!!!

[WizardMaster]

[BRPjunkie]

Try NOT to use caps "Please" its like shouting!!!

I've always wondered; if caps is "shouting" and lower case is "talking" how do we "whisper"?

[Magic Man]

I've always wondered; if caps is "shouting" and lower case is "talking" how do we "whisper"?

How's this for a wisper?


MM

[NancysToy]

It really bothers me to see someone have problems like this. I think I would have to agree that it comes down to individual units, and luck of the draw got you a bad one. Of course, luck shouldn't have anything to do with it - quality control should have settled that.
Personally, I have 20,000 miles on my RT, and couldn't be happier. Certainly no issues with the paint - it looks great and has held up well against a real pounding in sandstorms and even over dirt roads. My gas gauge used to be like yours, but BRP installed a new sender unit and now it works perfectly. As to the suspension and handling - I noticed some wallowing at first, but after setting the front suspension up to the max, and increasing the base air pressure on the rear to 60 psi, I haven't really had an issue with it. However, I should note that I tried higher air pressure in the tires (20 psi), and the problem actually got worse. Things improved when I went back to the recommended 15 psi. I think it is related to sidewall flex, and the ability of the tires to absorb lateral stresses without transmitting them through to the frame and steering.
Having been a professional bike tester for nearly 40 years, I have to admit that this sort of hit-and-miss quality control is almost always evident in the first production year of any bike. I honestly think that BRP has done, and is doing, everything in their power to negate the problems, but that is little solace to a first-time buyer like yourself.
The "proof of the pudding" will be how they handle things from here, re, trying to make you a happy customer in the end.
My advice to you, having seen this scenario play out many times before, is to deal with the company and your dealer in a cordial, but insistent manner. Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.
Just my two cents worth...
Fred

Thanks for your comments and input, Fred. I set the suspension up another notch to max, and it has helped, but it won't be suitable for two-up work until I can add a heavier sway bar and/or Elka shocks. I am two settings above that recommended for a solo rider heavier than I am, and at the max, which is never a good thing. We're definitely going to need more. I hope the Evoluzione swaybar for the RT is not long in coming to market.

I really don't expect much help from the dealer in resolving these issues. I am not a first time buyer, and we had to get Carlo to intervene with Nancy's Spyder. I will keep my fingers crossed, but I will not get my hopes up in the least. They have already missed several items during the PDI, and have glossed over or poo-pooed some of the other issues I mentioned. I expect to have to resolve these issues myself, one by one, at my own cost. The aesthetic issues are a lost cause...and a crying shame. The handling and the lack of brakes need to be addressed before this thing can be considered to be even remotely "road-worthy". I am a very experienced rider, with over fifty years, thousands of miles, a wide variety of motorcycles, and substantial racing experience, including some time on fuel bikes. I also have considerable mechanical and engineering experience. I do not cry wolf easily or needlessly. That is why I decided to express my disappointment here, publicly.

I'll keep experimenting, rattling the dealer's cage, and modifying things as I go along. The pity of it all is that such a thing is necessary with a high-end machine.

[effgjamis]

How's this for a wisper?


MM

shhhh " can you hear me now "



Scotty:
it is with much displeasure that I have read the issues of the RT after spending much $$$$.
It seems that those that have had no issues with the RT and those who do not own the RT yet, do not have the emphany of your issues.
When one gets on in age and retired, or ??? it is very difficult to enjoy a toy, or a means of transportion of which in years past we loved when we are facing those issues which makes the toy a corner piece decoration in one's barn, garage, or maybe living room.
I hope and pray that those in the power to correct the issues do it with most haste as our days are not as long as others to wait for a fix.
I do not own a RT but I do an RS/GS and have quite a few miles and have been blessed somewhat in little issues with one expection ( DPS ) but that seems to have been fixed, at least for now.
Keep the faith and courage to continue the saga until the issues are resolved.
Thank you for all your knowledge that you have shared and I really appreciate that information be it good, bad or indifferent.

[strats]

Scotty, it saddens me to hear of your woes. I only have a few complaints with my RT-S and like you, one of them is a paint blemish on the "frunk" lid, kind of looks like a paintbrush hair under the paint, The "Spyder RT-S" screening on the chrome trim LHS pannier is all but gone and with every wipe of a cloth more comes off, then there are those gauges... I would be happy for BRP to give me the blanking caps so I can remove them all together, sure glad I paid a premium price to have them.
Must admit I have my front shockers on the 5th setting, and tyres @ 20psi, and whilst it is a totally different ride than the RS, I dont find it that bad, and ALL of my riding is 2 up, so maybe there is a bigger problem than just shocks and tyre pressure with your beast.
I'm forgiving my dealer for the remote "frunk" release and light not working due to the connector on the microswitch being fitted upside down as it was only his second RT-S build. (and without your help and problem solving probably would still not be working)
At least I'm lucky with my PE embroidery on my seat, if it looks too shabby I can always swap with Babyanlee's seat, after all, we have the same PE number.
One thing I do agree on, I expected a lot better quality for $45000 AUD, and was lucky enough to have voiced this personally to the Australian BRP rep at my dealership a couple of weeks ago, along with trying to get some explaination of the "no Ipod gift" with an RT-S purchase in Australia... seems we may get a Maglite or something.

Hope everything gets sorted out mate, I value your thoughts, your experience and your help and look forward to more of the same.

[BRPjunkie]

How's this for a wisper?


MM

I CAN'T HEAR YOU! SPEAK UP! Maybe it's that I can't read font that small without my +1.75 readers?

[HDXBONES]

I have been struggling about whether or not to write this post. I am doing it to hope I will start to feel better. I am becoming increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with my RT, now that I have been able to start riding it. There is plenty good about it, but the bad things and the little nuisances are bothering me no end. Yestedary I rode my BMW for the first time this year, and it put my feelings in perspective. There is no hiding my disappointment.

OK, why? Well, first there is the lack of quality control in a high end (and high dollar) vehicle. Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel do not belong on a limited edition vehicle. Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on, and is generally useless, so I suppose having no light may be a blessing in disguise. Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and advice to carry extra plugs. Toss in the very poor mileage, and horsepower on the MCO that does not match the advertising, and my face gets longer.

Ther last straw has been the hideous handling. I knew from some demo rides that the RT tended to dive into turns, and that it wallowed a bit. I was not prepared for how unpredictable this was. I have to be paying close attention every single second, just to avoid running off the road. I have thousands of Spyder miles under my belt, but this is a vastly different beast...and it saddens me. The idea was to have a stable vehicle that handled well under adverse conditions, and was relaxing to ride, like our RS, but more comfortable. Highway miles with this wobbly monster are a chore, and riding behind a semi is as scary as anything I have ever done...and I have done a lot of scary things. The last straw was having the handling deteriorate when we rode two-up, and having it be so noticeable that my wife asked if I was having handling problems because of her.

I am hoping some of these things can be worked out without throwing good money after bad. I have increased the tire air pressure to no avail. I will set up the shocks to max, but I don't know if it will help much more. I have to check the toe-in, but it is not visibly bad. I will also have to check all the suspension components for looseness. The RTS will eventually require a paint job. Disappointing to throw that kind of dough at a new vehicle. The jury is still out on the misfire, I will give the dealer another chance to address it. If I can cure it somehow, it should help the mileage. The gauges will be removed and I will revert to the digitals...sad waste of money. I bought this to be a highway vehicle. If it turns into a ride-around-town toy, it will go to the back of the garage...and likely rot there. Too bad, there was great potential here, but the execution leaves much to be desired. This is without a doubt the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden...bar none. Comfort can't be coupled with poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling, however. For now, Nancy's RS and my Beemer will continue to be the rides of choice.

Scotty, it's very sad to hear you say these things. I remember the excitement and anticipation you had for your new RT. With you having one of the most calm, level, and fair demeanors on this board, I'm sure it wasn't easy for you to post this.

But I also believe that this is a fair assessment. With the wealth of experience that you have, I believe every word. And fair is fair, so even the undesirable should be reported.

I agree completely with you. A nearly $30,000 machine should not need more money thrown at it to attempt to overcome ''poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling". Shame on BRP

I see that some responders here would have you accept the shortcomings, and chalk it up to it being a new product...... If that's the case, BRP should have sold it at an introductory price. But they didn't, and you are correct to not accept it as such. I guess it's much easier to look past the shortcomings of the product when it's not your $30,000 that you are offering advice about.

My advice is to talk publicly, frequently, and loudly about your displeasure. BRP will hear it and will have to do something. If there is no public awareness, how does it make things better for the next guy? Giving the manufacturer a 'free ride', or 'the benefit of the doubt' only empowers them to continue their mediocrity.

You can bet Carlo will be calling you now, trying to smooth the ripples, and for your sake I hope he can. But after spending the $$, and raising these points, I hope he doesn't talk you , or any other like-minded RT buyers for that matter, into settling for accepting these shortfalls.....

[tatt2r]

I agree with HDX you are one of the most helpful people on this site and shouldn't have to deal with this I would bitch until it is right .... nothing worse than paying for something of any cost and be disapointed

[grumpybob]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

If these are common issues what are the uncommon issues?

If I can't change the plugs myself, do I have to get it towed in everytime they get fouled because I don't want to ride it and take a chance of damaging the engine?

What if I am 300 miles from home and/or a dealer when the plugs foul?

How much does it cost me for labor to not be able to change my own fouled plugs?

Just curious!!

[grumpybob]

Scotty - sorry you are having such bad luck with your new rYde!! Hope it all gets fixed quickly for you.

With your vast experience - I can only imagine what a new buyer with with no other bike experience would be thinking or doing!!

[gazey]

I am having a blast on my RS.
I "was" thinking about upgrading to the RT.
After reading about your problems I might just hold of and "stay tuned" to SpyderLovers.

[glynnk]

Scotty--I too am sorry to hear about your situation. I've got a little over 2,000 miles on my RT-S and the only issues I've had to deal with are the "bouncy" gas gauge, which has been replaced and now is solid as a rock; the handling which has been rectified by adjusting the shocks to a higher setting; and the gas mileage, which hopefully improves somewhat, but then again, I didn't buy the RT for the gas mileage. My paint job is outstanding and the PE number stitching is fine. I've done very little "two-up" riding, but it's never presented any problems from my perspective. My riding consists of freeways and back country roads with a lot of twisties. Even on two wheels, my riding style was never in the "peg scraper"category, so I'm not in the position of "pushing" the RT. While I was an owner of an '09 RS, the RT does ride and handle differently as you know, but I'm not disappointed at all in my RT. In my opinion, it's a very comfortable ride with good power.

There are a few people on this board that I've come to respect based on their knowledge and even handed manner in addressing concerns and you're right up there at the top, so it is a bit disturbing to hear about your observations and disappointment. Hopefully, those issues can be resolved to your satisfaction.

Please keep us informed because it's important for all of us to know what BRP and the dealer does in getting things worked out.

Glynnk

[Firefly]

If these are common issues what are the uncommon issues?

If I can't change the plugs myself, do I have to get it towed in everytime they get fouled because I don't want to ride it and take a chance of damaging the engine?

What if I am 300 miles from home and/or a dealer when the plugs foul?

How much does it cost me for labor to not be able to change my own fouled plugs?

Just curious!!

With all due respect to the new tech that posted, I don't believe for a minute that the end-user cannot replace the plugs. Perhaps they are just unaware that most of us out here are very handy....

[boborgera]

With all due respect to the new tech that posted, I don't believe for a minute that the end-user cannot replace the plugs. Perhaps they are just unaware that most of us out here are very handy....

I just change my [two] plugs and the Y gaskets my self, finish about an hour ago. I've change more plugs in MY life time than Carter has little pills.
The average owner will be hard pressed to do it them self, and it's not going to be done on the side of the road!! Removing the plastic is the easy part, Removing the air box that's a pain in the Then it's all got to go back with out extra screws laying around. And your going need a good set of tools, Tools that have Fisher Price stamp on the side won't cut it.

[NancysToy]

I just change my [two] plugs and the Y gaskets my self, finish about an hour ago. I've change more plugs in MY life time than Carter has little pills.
The average owner will be hard pressed to do it them self, and it's not going to be done on the side of the road!! Removing the plastic is the easy part, Removing the air box that's a pain in the Then it's all got to go back with out extra screws laying around. And your going need a good set of tools, Tools that have Fisher Price stamp on the side won't cut it.

.....but does that mean we are above or below average?

[boborgera]

.....but does that mean we are above or below average?

Right on the Curve = Plus or Minus

[Questions]

When the Rt was announced I started looking at them, nand even got the financing in place.....I'm still approved for the $38,000.00 that they were asking for the RT-S and the trailer complete.....but after stepping back and thinking about the problems that I had, had with my RS and haden't gotten them taken care of.... I just figured if they couldnt repair a $18,000 SPYDER then they wouldn't be able to repair a $38,000 SPYDER... that would make me more angry to get it twice as bad the second time around....

Now let me say this....I DO LOVE MY SPYDER!!! and I wouldnt trade it for anything else thats out there...Buy, the way BRP and the servicing locations have screwed around with NO QUALITY CONTROLL and not wanting to fix the things that are wrong.... I will hold into my letter from my Credit Union that says I'm approved for the money until they can repair my RS...its comming up on two years in October....At least I did get it over to the guys at West Coast Power Sports and they took care of most of the problems that I was having...at the time...GREAT WORK GUYS!!!!

One question is the plug fouling problem common to the RS ROTAX 990 ALSO?

I hope you all get your problems taken care of..and in a flash!

[BRPjunkie]

I don't recall plug fouling issues with the GS 990 Rotax. While the two engines are almost identical, they do have different compression, different throttle bodies and different octane requirements. I don't know if the spark plugs are the same.

[boborgera]

Should the owner turn the other cheek ?!?

Only if he's on a free ride.

[Mad Matt]

Just so we don't dwell on the negative here...the only issue I am really having is the wallowing handling. One reason the handling is so mushy is because the suspension is so soft. The RT is the most comfortable riding bike or trike I have ever ridden. So the handling is at least in part the price we are paying for the soft ride.

Other than a loose hose clamp on a radiator hose that was dripping some coolant (which the dealer fixed) , I just brought mine in for the 600 mile service and have not had any other issues.

So far I think it's a great machine.

Mad Matt

[Dudley]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

Take a deep breath and then let it go. Scotty probably has more mechanical experience than you will ever dream of and if you read his post correctly, the plug fouled on the FIRST ride. That is unacceptable. And, he can probably change both plugs faster than you can change ONE. If a unit that sells for $26,000 needs ANYTHING done to it before 25,000 miles, then the factory people better get a grip on it and get off their stuffed chairs and get to work. And, btw, any reason for your CAPS? Are you trying to impress us with your knowledge by using the CAPS? I am blasting you because you have posted without cause or knowledge and demeaned one of my good friends.

[bodymanpainter]

Just so we don't dwell on the negative here...the only issue I am really having is the wallowing handling. One reason the handling is so mushy is because the suspension is so soft. The RT is the most comfortable riding bike or trike I have ever ridden. So the handling is at least in part the price we are paying for the soft ride.

Other than a loose hose clamp on a radiator hose that was dripping some coolant (which the dealer fixed) , I just brought mine in for the 600 mile service and have not had any other issues.

So far I think it's a great machine.

Mad Matt

Love mine and haven't had any issues with it and have almost 2000 mi. on it. I ride it daily to and from work. Sorry to here about all the problems hope they are taken care of.

[SPIIDR]

I too noticed the Spyder going all over the joint whilst i was ridind in windy conditions and corners. i have had the dealer set the suspenssion (front) to setting 5 and it has made a heap of difference. Most of the time it is 2 of us on the bike but when i am solo it is still a big improvement. Having owned an RS myself the Rt did get a while to get used too but have over come the fear factor. hope you can solve your issues and if you find and aftermarket product that will hepl please let me know.