Disappointment

[NancysToy]

I have been struggling about whether or not to write this post. I am doing it to hope I will start to feel better. I am becoming increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with my RT, now that I have been able to start riding it. There is plenty good about it, but the bad things and the little nuisances are bothering me no end. Yesterday I rode my BMW for the first time this year, and it put my feelings in perspective. There is no hiding my disappointment.

OK, why? Well, first there is the lack of quality control in a high end (and high dollar) vehicle. Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel do not belong on a limited edition vehicle. Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on, and is generally useless, so I suppose having no light may be a blessing in disguise. Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and advice to carry extra plugs. Toss in the very poor mileage, and horsepower on the MCO that does not match the advertising, and my face gets longer.

The last straw has been the hideous handling. I knew from some demo rides that the RT tended to dive into turns, and that it wallowed a bit. I was not prepared for how unpredictable this was. I have to be paying close attention every single second, just to avoid running off the road. I have thousands of Spyder miles under my belt, but this is a vastly different beast...and it saddens me. The idea was to have a stable vehicle that handled well under adverse conditions, and was relaxing to ride, like our RS, but more comfortable. Highway miles with this wobbly monster are a chore, and riding behind a semi is as scary as anything I have ever done...and I have done a lot of scary things. The last straw was having the handling deteriorate when we rode two-up, and having it be so noticeable that my wife asked if I was having handling problems because of her.

I am hoping some of these things can be worked out without throwing good money after bad. I have increased the tire air pressure to no avail. I will set up the shocks to max, but I don't know if it will help much more. I have to check the toe-in, but it is not visibly bad. I will also have to check all the suspension components for looseness. The RTS will eventually require a paint job. Disappointing to throw that kind of dough at a new vehicle. The jury is still out on the misfire, I will give the dealer another chance to address it. If I can cure it somehow, it should help the mileage. The gauges will be removed and I will revert to the digitals...sad waste of money. I bought this to be a highway vehicle. If it turns into a ride-around-town toy, it will go to the back of the garage...and likely rot there. Too bad, there was great potential here, but the execution leaves much to be desired. This is without a doubt the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden...bar none. Comfort can't be coupled with poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling, however. For now, Nancy's RS and my Beemer will continue to be the rides of choice.

[manoman14]

Sorry that you got one with issues. And so many issues at that. Someone at the factory must have been having a very bad day, and passed it along to all of his co-workers. Still no excuse for poor quality control.

[dltang]

I have been struggling about whether or not to write this post. I am doing it to hope I will start to feel better. I am becoming increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with my RT, now that I have been able to start riding it. There is plenty good about it, but the bad things and the little nuisances are bothering me no end. Yestedary I rode my BMW for the first time this year, and it put my feelings in perspective. There is no hiding my disappointment.

OK, why? Well, first there is the lack of quality control in a high end (and high dollar) vehicle. Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel do not belong on a limited edition vehicle. Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on, and is generally useless, so I suppose having no light may be a blessing in disguise. Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and advice to carry extra plugs. Toss in the very poor mileage, and horsepower on the MCO that does not match the advertising, and my face gets longer.

Ther last straw has been the hideous handling. I knew from some demo rides that the RT tended to dive into turns, and that it wallowed a bit. I was not prepared for how unpredictable this was. I have to be paying close attention every single second, just to avoid running off the road. I have thousands of Spyder miles under my belt, but this is a vastly different beast...and it saddens me. The idea was to have a stable vehicle that handled well under adverse conditions, and was relaxing to ride, like our RS, but more comfortable. Highway miles with this wobbly monster are a chore, and riding behind a semi is as scary as anything I have ever done...and I have done a lot of scary things. The last straw was having the handling deteriorate when we rode two-up, and having it be so noticeable that my wife asked if I was having handling problems because of her.

I am hoping some of these things can be worked out without throwing good money after bad. I have increased the tire air pressure to no avail. I will set up the shocks to max, but I don't know if it will help much more. I have to check the toe-in, but it is not visibly bad. I will also have to check all the suspension components for looseness. The RTS will eventually require a paint job. Disappointing to throw that kind of dough at a new vehicle. The jury is still out on the misfire, I will give the dealer another chance to address it. If I can cure it somehow, it should help the mileage. The gauges will be removed and I will revert to the digitals...sad waste of money. I bought this to be a highway vehicle. If it turns into a ride-around-town toy, it will go to the back of the garage...and likely rot there. Too bad, there was great potential here, but the execution leaves much to be desired. This is without a doubt the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden...bar none. Comfort can't be coupled with poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling, however. For now, Nancy's RS and my Beemer will continue to be the rides of choice.

Scotty, definitely get it to your dealer for the gauge and the plugs problem, hopefully they can make it right. Maybe call Carlo and see if you can get new panels that have a decent paint job as well, no way a new PE should have those kinds of problems in the paint. Don't know what to say about the handling, maybe, Ken's sway bar would be just the ticket to make it handle the way you want, just throwing ideas at you. Good luck my friend, looking forward to spyder rides with you this year.

[Bersquack]

Scotty,

I sincerely hope your RT gets fixed. It is never fun to spend that kind of money on something you will not enjoy!

[BRPjunkie]

After our visit last week, I knew you were struggling with these issues. Expectations for the RT-S were very high. BRP still has some work to do. It took Honda several tries to get the Gold Wing right and they never stopped improving it. While there were some learnings from the GS/RS, the RT is still a new model and will experience some of the same first year issues. When BRP went from two passenger PWC to three passenger PWC, everyone thought that there would be no bugs since they had years of two seat experience. Each model brings new learnings. I guess you need to change your signature to happy co-owner GS and disappointed. disillusioned, dissatisfied, disheartened, disenchanted, disturbed or whatever term best fits. Hopefully, the dealer and BRP can fix some of the issues.

[xpeschon]

OK I understand this part:

Expectations for the RT-S were very high. BRP still has some work to do. It took Honda several tries to get the Gold Wing right and they never stopped improving it. While there were some learnings from the GS/RS, the RT is still a new model and will experience some of the same first year issues.

As per Scotty's words:

Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

QUALITY CONTROL and MANAGEMENT::: BRP let the production of these embroidery numbers appear on there PE seats, SHAME on them, it should have raised a RED flag to everyone about the quality of the machine after seeing such 3rd grade work.. With all the high tech equipment BRP has you would have thought they could have purchased a embroidery computer to do this work instead of hiring a 3rd grader to hand stitch it.. When I first say this months ago I couldn't beleive it..

Best of Luck getting your PE to run right Scotty..

Joe
(X)

[BRPjunkie]

OK I understand this part:

Expectations for the RT-S were very high. BRP still has some work to do. It took Honda several tries to get the Gold Wing right and they never stopped improving it. While there were some learnings from the GS/RS, the RT is still a new model and will experience some of the same first year issues.

As per Scotty's words:

Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

QUALITY CONTROL and MANAGEMENT::: BRP let the production of these embroidery numbers appear on there PE seats, SHAME on them, it should have raised a RED flag to everyone about the quality of the machine after seeing such 3rd grade work.. With all the high tech equipment BRP has you would have thought they could have purchased a embroidery computer to do this work instead of hiring a 3rd grader to hand stitch it.. When I first say this months ago I couldn't beleive it..

Best of Luck getting your PE to run right Scotty..

Joe
(X)

You would think that they would have learned a lesson from the GS with respect to the whole "Premier Edition" idea. Forget the fact that they can't count. They tried handlebar PE ID on GS which posed problems for those who wanted to change out the bars. The seat PE ID was not the best choice either since it is emproidered and exposed to wear and tear. A PE ID badge somehwere else on the bike may have made more sense than the seat. Quality control is the final chance to catch bad stitching, bad paint, poor fit, etc. Rush to get product out (fed by our complaining that they aren't doing it fast enough) will result in some of these issues. Still no excuse for cosmetic flaws.

[Magic Man]

What's the matter Scotty, the $5,000 quality level for $30,000 bothers you.

Really, and I thought it was just me that these things bothered.

MM

[Mad Matt]

The handling is a big disappointment to us. My wife is not comfortable on this thing yet and I don't care for that. I am going to try the shocks and sway bar and then take it from there. Every trike I have ever ridden hunts to some degree, but this one is bad.

Really other than that we don't have any complaints so far.

Matt

[NancysToy]

The handling is a big disappointment to us. My wife is not comfortable on this thing yet and I don't care for that. I am going to try the shocks and sway bar and then take it from there. Every trike I have ever ridden hunts to some degree, but this one is bad.

Really other than that we don't have any complaints so far.

Matt

I am waiting anxiously for the sway bar, too. The other scary thing is the brakes...woefully inadequate. About on a level with my 65 Triumph. With two aboard, they are downright useless. Nothing like the ones that will throw you over the handlebars on my wife's GS. In BRP's defense, the dealer hasn't had a chance to look at them yet. We had other quality issues, too, like electrical connectors that were never fastened together and features that were not checked during the PDI. Sad!

[Firefly]

Sorry to hear about your problems... hopefully you can make some 'not too expensive' changes to get this bike to be a pleasing ride. Considering the good ride reports from the RT-5, I think(hope) you should be able to get this dialed in so it handles better. Maybe cranking the shocks up will do it. Not sure if Ken's swaybar will fit the RT--- but I doubt it considering the wider stance of the RT.

I would agree the stitching should be better for a product like this.

I didn't really notice the paint problems, but I didn't look that close and it wasn't too bright out when I saw your RT. I think Deb's idea of seeing if they can get you new panels is a good one.

While I won't excuse BRP for such quality issues, I did talk to a friend in the paint business and he said many of the new regulations on paint have made painting more difficult than it used to be. Something about the makeup of the products (technical:can't have as much nasty fumes and bad stuff due to the tree huggers) has changed in recent years -- making their job more difficult. In my way of thinking this will weed out the 'wanna be' good painters and allow the quality guys to stand out even more... but will hurt production line painting like the Spyder. Just my .02.

I'm having some panels painted (as soon as I get them) and I'll let you see how they turn out.

[BumbleBee]

Sorry to hear of all your troubles you are having and how disappointed you are. I hope all those issues will be fixed and resolved soon.

The only problem I have with mine is; handling is not as good as my previous spyder, it does wallow a lot, especially in the curves (I have to slow down much more now taking the curves). When the wind hits me, I feel it wallowing there also. I hope with time and after I put on many more miles, I hope that it will go away. But don't forget it is a different bike!

The one thing I have learned. Don't turn it off and on. That foules up the spark plugs. Let it run 10 to 20 minutes, and rev it up a bit. I know first hand, my own doing here, lesson taught.

Otherwise I enjoy my RT-S a lot, and as of now I made the right decision.

[BHawksworth]

I have two RT's in my garage. One is my Dad's, but I ride them both. One is in the shop due to the DPS issue. Taking that aside, I've set both to the second to most firm suspension setting. I'm about 218 lbs. Both handle very well and very nimbly, with no wallowing (after I increased the suspension setting). Both track very well, although they get blown about a little bit if a tractor trailer flies by at speed, due to the big fairing. Paint quality, stitching, etc. is superb. This is just my experience - I guess it must come down to the individual unit.

[docdoru]

One is in the shop due to the DPS issue.

[Smylinacha]

I hope you can get all this fixed Scotty!

I really think you wrote it all very well - it's as professional as those reviews I read in bike magazines. You are one of the gearheads here and because of that, you know what you are talking about and if BRP is reading then they should pay attention to this post that your wrote. Just hope it can all get fixed up for ya

[Freditor]

It really bothers me to see someone have problems like this. I think I would have to agree that it comes down to individual units, and luck of the draw got you a bad one. Of course, luck shouldn't have anything to do with it - quality control should have settled that.
Personally, I have 20,000 miles on my RT, and couldn't be happier. Certainly no issues with the paint - it looks great and has held up well against a real pounding in sandstorms and even over dirt roads. My gas gauge used to be like yours, but BRP installed a new sender unit and now it works perfectly. As to the suspension and handling - I noticed some wallowing at first, but after setting the front suspension up to the max, and increasing the base air pressure on the rear to 60 psi, I haven't really had an issue with it. However, I should note that I tried higher air pressure in the tires (20 psi), and the problem actually got worse. Things improved when I went back to the recommended 15 psi. I think it is related to sidewall flex, and the ability of the tires to absorb lateral stresses without transmitting them through to the frame and steering.
Having been a professional bike tester for nearly 40 years, I have to admit that this sort of hit-and-miss quality control is almost always evident in the first production year of any bike. I honestly think that BRP has done, and is doing, everything in their power to negate the problems, but that is little solace to a first-time buyer like yourself.
The "proof of the pudding" will be how they handle things from here, re, trying to make you a happy customer in the end.
My advice to you, having seen this scenario play out many times before, is to deal with the company and your dealer in a cordial, but insistent manner. Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.
Just my two cents worth...
Fred

[fastfraser]

Good honest write up . Thanks Scotty . From your write up, and the value I put on your knowledge and understanding of the I at this point will wait for a year or so until I take a look at the RTS again .

[docdoru]

Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.Fred

Should the owner turn the other cheek ?!?

[ROTXMECH]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

[docdoru]

welcome

[xpeschon]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

Welcome aboard, I see this was your first post, don't go any where now cause we will PICK your brain for sure starting with Scooty issue.. Again, Welcome and thanks for stopp'in in..

Joe
(X)

[BHawksworth]

Well, and just to note, my DPS issue may be a little different than what some have reported on the GS machines. Mine went into limp mode flashing the DPS light, which is why I call it a DPS issue. But I didn't experience the famous 'notch' or pulling to one side, so it may be a software, rather than a mechanical issue.

[Magic Man]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF
THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE
CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

[Firefly]

It really bothers me to see someone have problems like this. I think I would have to agree that it comes down to individual units, and luck of the draw got you a bad one. Of course, luck shouldn't have anything to do with it - quality control should have settled that.
Personally, I have 20,000 miles on my RT, and couldn't be happier. Certainly no issues with the paint - it looks great and has held up well against a real pounding in sandstorms and even over dirt roads. My gas gauge used to be like yours, but BRP installed a new sender unit and now it works perfectly. As to the suspension and handling - I noticed some wallowing at first, but after setting the front suspension up to the max, and increasing the base air pressure on the rear to 60 psi, I haven't really had an issue with it. However, I should note that I tried higher air pressure in the tires (20 psi), and the problem actually got worse. Things improved when I went back to the recommended 15 psi. I think it is related to sidewall flex, and the ability of the tires to absorb lateral stresses without transmitting them through to the frame and steering.
Having been a professional bike tester for nearly 40 years, I have to admit that this sort of hit-and-miss quality control is almost always evident in the first production year of any bike. I honestly think that BRP has done, and is doing, everything in their power to negate the problems, but that is little solace to a first-time buyer like yourself.
The "proof of the pudding" will be how they handle things from here, re, trying to make you a happy customer in the end.
My advice to you, having seen this scenario play out many times before, is to deal with the company and your dealer in a cordial, but insistent manner. Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.
Just my two cents worth...
Fred

Great letter and advice from someone with some serious miles on these units! What a wealth of knowledge we have available out here....

How on earth did people figure stuff out before these here internets? I forget!

Also great advice on how to handle such problems.

[Firefly]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

welcome

Not sure about the RT, but changing plugs on the RS isn't too bad at all--- especially if you no longer have the airbox installed---

Just a side note---- typing in ALL CAPS is generally frowned upon as it's more difficult to read-- and caps are usually reserved for making a STRONG POINT (Cyber Yelling).....