NHTSA COMPLAINTS

[RTGENE]

LEASE DON'T SQUEEZE THE CHARMIN-------I HAVE BEEN WAITING YEARS TO SAY THAT.

[dryheat]

If memory serves, at the time of the recall there were around 9,000 Spyders in North America.

All things considered - the number of DPS failures is a pretty small amount of the total sold.

The number of NHTSA reports is obviously skewed. I'm pretty sure it only contains a few of the incidents where people actually experienced steering failure. Most are unreported, I suspect. There is also a boatload of people who didn't get the lock-up, but have had to replace the DPS unit because of repeated BUDS failures. I'd be interested to see how many DPS units have been replaced for all reasons.

[rider2554]

this is what scares me

http://corsicanadailysun.com/local/x...torcycle-crash

This is sad to see. Would like to know if it was do to rider error, weather conditions, was she wearing a helmet, mechanical issue (DPS problem), health issue? Could be any of the above. My prayers go out for her family.

[WaltH]

I have been crossing my fingers that BRP will make its cause and effect announcement very soon. If something doesn't happen pretty quick, I may never get my fingers unstuck. This could make it difficult to ride.

[QuadManiac]

If the "fixed" steering issues persist it might be personal injury lawsuits that come into play.

And, of course, this is exactly what the class action, ambulance chasing sharks are hoping for.

No offense intended to any attorneys here, I was married to one for 22 years... but class action abuse is the scourge of the US judicial system - making fortunes for the law firms and a pittance for deserving members of the class.

[ThreeWheels]

So let me understand. Are these things death traps just waiting to kill the unsuspecting innocent rider, or is this just one of those things ?
I'd like to have some feel for the failure rate. Is it one in a million, and all six of those have posted, or is it more like one in a hundred ?
?
I'd like to know since I haven't picked up my RT yet.

[FANG]

So let me understand. Are these things death traps just waiting to kill the unsuspecting innocent rider, or is this just one of those things ?
I'd like to have some feel for the failure rate. Is it one in a million, and all six of those have posted, or is it more like one in a hundred ?
?
I'd like to know since I haven't picked up my RT yet.

This forum is only representative of a fraction of spyder owners and problems are a major focus at times. Rest assure the spyder is no more dangerous than any other motorcycle or trike.

I love my spyder and ryde as often as I can.

[SpyderWolf]

So let me understand. Are these things death traps just waiting to kill the unsuspecting innocent rider, or is this just one of those things ?
I'd like to have some feel for the failure rate. Is it one in a million, and all six of those have posted, or is it more like one in a hundred ?
?
I'd like to know since I haven't picked up my RT yet.

welcome

In response to my earlier question, FireFly stated there were approximately 9,000 Spyders sold in the US. So, the rate of incident reports to NHTSA is very low with that number of Spyders on the road. As HDXBones stated, there have not been any reported problems with the 2010 models so far. I have not had any steering issues yet, nor do I want to have any, and I continue to ryde mine like I stole it.

on getting your new RT soon.

[NancysToy]

The number of NHTSA reports is obviously skewed. I'm pretty sure it only contains a few of the incidents where people actually experienced steering failure. Most are unreported, I suspect. There is also a boatload of people who didn't get the lock-up, but have had to replace the DPS unit because of repeated BUDS failures. I'd be interested to see how many DPS units have been replaced for all reasons.

I wouldn't call it a "boatload", but I do agree with your assessment. A number of members have experienced the problem immediately on the heels of the update, and merely had the dealer address it. No NHTSA reports in those cases. In several cases the dealer himself has seen the "Check DPS" warning, and has notified the customer that a new DPS unit was on order. Again, no NHTSA involvement. That is proper, since there was no "incident" to report, but it will skew the reported numbers. Even with those, the number of failures is a small percentage of the Spyders sold.

[BLACK WIDOW]

If memory serves, at the time of the recall there were around 9,000 Spyders in North America.

All things considered - the number of DPS failures is a pretty small amount of the total sold.

Yes that is correct---But, look at TOYOTA; An extremely small percentage of reports relative to the millions sold. It only takes one though to kill you.

[Way2Fast]

I wouldn't call it a "boatload", but I do agree with your assessment. A number of members have experienced the problem immediately on the heels of the update, and merely had the dealer address it. No NHTSA reports in those cases. In several cases the dealer himself has seen the "Check DPS" warning, and has notified the customer that a new DPS unit was on order. Again, no NHTSA involvement. That is proper, since there was no "incident" to report, but it will skew the reported numbers. Even with those, the number of failures is a small percentage of the Spyders sold.

Just having the "check DPS" flash on the dash should be considered an "incident" because it is a warning that something is out of wack. If all systems were functioning properly chances are their would be no message displayed on th dash.

[SpyderGirl]

A number of members have experienced the problem immediately on the heels of the update, and merely had the dealer address it. No NHTSA reports in those cases.

I fall into that category, I did file a report with NHTSA stating so.

[Firefly]

So let me understand. Are these things death traps just waiting to kill the unsuspecting innocent rider, or is this just one of those things ?
I'd like to have some feel for the failure rate. Is it one in a million, and all six of those have posted, or is it more like one in a hundred ?
?
I'd like to know since I haven't picked up my RT yet.

The steering problems have been amplified by many out here on these internets.

Should you be aware of this concern? ---- YES!

Should you be worried you're riding a 'death trap'? Absolutely NOT!

Far more dangers with a higher % of causing a Spyder crash than this steering issue----- with one of top ones being idiots driving cars near you while talking on cell phones.

Even with the 'minor possibility' of a steering system failure, I'll still put the safety of the Spyder up against any bike on the road. Other opinions will obviously vary.

We only know of a few 'possible' actual accidents due to steering failure. All others have been able to maintain control of the Spyder.

Buy it. Ride it. Be aware of any possible mechanical failure (flat tire, engine stopping, dead battery, steering problem, etc. .....). This goes for ANY bike on the road-- not just the Spyder.

[NancysToy]

Just having the "check DPS" flash on the dash should be considered an "incident" because it is a warning that something is out of wack. If all systems were functioning properly chances are their would be no message displayed on th dash.

If it happens to the dealer, before you get the Spyder back, it would be discounted as a second hand report, even if you choose to file with NHTSA. Reports that could not be substantiated, could be confused with another issue, or were too vague, were part of the Toyota problem. NHTSA discounted many of them, so delayed their investigation. I strongly urge all who have had an actual malfunction that resulted in some real effect to report them, and even to report warnings they experienced that could not be explained or corrected by the dealer, but reporting that your dealer called and saw a warning on the screen would be counterproductive...and likely ignored.

[Smylinacha]

So let me understand. Are these things death traps just waiting to kill the unsuspecting innocent rider, or is this just one of those things ?
I'd like to have some feel for the failure rate. Is it one in a million, and all six of those have posted, or is it more like one in a hundred ?
?
I'd like to know since I haven't picked up my RT yet.

Nobody really has any info yet. Only place that has info is the NHTSA that you can see posted. And we don't know if this is a real # or do people experience these problems and just not report them. So we really do not know how many Spyders have had this happen.

[ABN350F]

Ok the Class action suit was just for discussion -- but could be revisited should more incidents as below happen if related to the DPS issue. However, there has been no further information relating to this crash. A question, when DPS failure occurs is there a log of the incident in the DPS or is there a way to determine if the DPS failed a a certain point in time. If there is, then shouldnt the DPS be pulled from the Spyder involved in this accident and sent to BRP, NHTSA an independent tester.



Former educator dies in motorcycle crash





Jan Ivie, former educator at Corsicana high School, died Sunday after her three-wheeled Can-Am Spyder veered off FM 744 in a motorcycle accident.

Ivie was among a group of other motorcycles, according to a Department of Public Safety report, when she failed to navigate her bike around a corner about 5.6 miles west of Corsicana. Ivie’s head struck a tree, and she was pronounced dead at Navarro Regional.

[Firefly]

What the heck is a " 'possible' actual accidents "????

BRP admitted to 3 seperate incidents with injuries last May, almost a year ago. Do you really believe they all stopped after that? I don't.......

And what is "maintaining control"?

Does that mean keeping your intended course exactly as planned? Or does it mean not getting in an accident?????Many accounts I've read clearly stated the operator was fortunate to avoid an accident as they experienced an out-of-lane excursion......

That would not be considered "maintaining control" in most people's opinions.....

Can't help but wonder, why are you so insistent on minimizing the experiences of other SpyderLovers, and portraying the possible consequences of a DPS failure as being so trivial????? Just doesn't make sense.....

One could ask the same about you--- why are you so insistent on bashing BRP every chance you get? Just today you've put a scare into two new or soon to be owners.

Making them aware and giving the impression that the Spyder is a 'death trap' are very different things. You obviously prefer giving the latter impression, even tho it's far from the truth.

Thanks for catching my typo btw--- geesh.

Incidents are different that accidents are they not? I've had 'incidents' that involved my steering not working properly--- but I didn't have an 'accident'.

Maybe we should be using the word CRASH. How many CRASHES do we know of that were caused by DPS failure? 1 'probable' crash (as in it most likely WAS DPS related). The other 2 mentioned 'injuries' during incidents we don't know about, other than a mention of bruised wrists or something - was that do to a 'crash' or just trying to control the Spyder?

Either way it's a small amount out of the thousands of Spyders on the road.

[ABN350F]

I have sent a email to the editor of the Corsicana newspaper to see if there has been any additional information regarding the fatal crash -- will keep all posted

[NancysToy]

Ok the Class action suit was just for discussion -- but could be revisited should more incidents as below happen if related to the DPS issue. However, there has been no further information relating to this crash. A question, when DPS failure occurs is there a log of the incident in the DPS or is there a way to determine if the DPS failed a a certain point in time. If there is, then shouldnt the DPS be pulled from the Spyder involved in this accident and sent to BRP, NHTSA an independent tester.

If there is a "Check DPS" warning on the cluster, it will probably record a fault code that can be retrieved by BUDS (or manually at the console, if it is still active). I do not believe these are time/date coded, only recorded as "occurred" or "active". According to the reports submitted here, many of the incidents do not result in a warning on the cluster. These probably would not record any failure code. How to respond to the failure code depends on the problem indicated. Some faults require replacement of the DPS unit, others require repalcement or recalibration of sensors, and some are related to the battery voltage, and may be battery or charging system related. There is no one, firm answer. That is what technicians and fault codes are for. The lack of a single known failure may be what is creating such difficulty for the BRP engineers in coming up with a cause and solution. My guess is that there are several possible issues, all with similar results and symptoms. Some may not have left any telltale tracks. Sometimes going after these things is like chasing a down feather in a snowstorm.

[SpyderWolf]

Just having the "check DPS" flash on the dash should be considered an "incident" because it is a warning that something is out of wack. If all systems were functioning properly chances are their would be no message displayed on th dash.

This is an interesting thought. Just the other morning my wife started her Spyder and the VSS light was on and Check DPS scrolled across the dash. I had her shut it off and remove the key for 5 minutes. She then started it back up with no problems at all. We put over 100 miles on our Spyders that day with no steering problems whatsoever.

So, why in the world would I contact the NHTSA to report such a thing as that?

I am also wondering if you ever took your Spyder to a dealer to try letting them fix it? From what I can remember about your posts, you refused to take it to a dealer until BRP told you they had a concrete fix for the problem, and you did not want to leave it sitting on their dusty lot while they attempted to fix it. Instead, you ended up selling it to a dealer that is going to try to ship it to a different country where they are going to attempt to reverse engineer it and make a new vehicle that you may be perfectly happy with.

This is not meant to bash you or flame you in anyway. I am just trying to figure out where all of your negative posts and opinions on what everyone else should do with their Spyder are coming from?

[dave01]

I never had the check DPS on the screen. I just had the "out of 2 lane excursion, 3 times in a row" and 3 more lock-ups within a 20 mile ryde. Then 2 more lock-ups on the way home. The buds showed nothing out of the ordinary. Thats what is making it hard for the technicians to diagnose. Not all of the cases have been the same. Some get clicking with the lock-up, some get the" wont turn without a lot of force", some, like me got both, and the twitching from right to left.

[bone crusher]

And, of course, this is exactly what the class action, ambulance chasing sharks are hoping for.

No offense intended to any attorneys here, I was married to one for 22 years... but class action abuse is the scourge of the US judicial system - making fortunes for the law firms and a pittance for deserving members of the class.

[SpyderWolf]

I think that Way2Fast's post is meant to be taken in context with the post he quoted along with it.....Sounds different if taken alone.......

That makes sense as well.

I know curiosity may kill me, but like a cat I am still curious about the other questions I posed to him.

[bone crusher]

I have sent a email to the editor of the Corsicana newspaper to see if there has been any additional information regarding the fatal crash -- will keep all posted

It's unlikely they'll ever know and one cannot speculate.

[bikeguy]

Some faults require replacement of the DPS unit, others require repalcement or recalibration of sensors, and some are related to the battery voltage, and may be battery or charging system related.

I'm following this thread with a lot of interest although I'm still waiting for my Spyder RT to arrive so my opinion isn't worth much. But this point that Scotty made really got me to thinking. Digital systems are very sensitive to voltage levels. The actual voltages used in the processors and circuitry themselves are usually quite low so even a tenth of a volt can make a huge difference. It would be interesting to know the condition of the battery/battery connections/charging sytem when some of the DPS failures occurred.

I have seen the instrument panel on my Ford Excursion go nuts because of low voltage when it's two batteries still had sufficient charge to start a 7.3 liter diesel engine. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that low voltages could cause the Spyder's DPS and related electronics to do weird things especially since the Spyder has a relatively anemic charging system.

Cotton