Latest Update(steering)from dealer

[stgilmer]

[quote=boborgera;169189]

Your right, it just blows my mind that it can be so many different things. You would think we bought a custom bike where each one was similar but alot of different components.

By Japanese standers 14,000 +/- bikes in two years is custom.
The workers [17?] at the factory make ski doo's in the summer and
Spyders in the winter, That's why they like you to pre order.

Not quite what I was trying to say but thank you for those facts.
When I say custom, my idea is a small shop hammering out maybe 1 or 2 bikes a month made to the customers liking but all on the same frame...get it?? Ours don't exactly fit under a category like that. There may not be tons made like a ford focus..example...but there are enough that you'd think we wouldn't be dealing with this problem, atleast not for this long. That was my only point I was trying to get across by saying custom.

[boborgera]

[quote=stgilmer;169208]

Not quite what I was trying to say but thank you for those facts.
When I say custom, my idea is a small shop hammering out maybe 1 or 2 bikes a month made to the customers liking but all on the same frame...get it?? Ours don't exactly fit under a category like that. There may not be tons made like a ford focus..example...but there are enough that you'd think we wouldn't be dealing with this problem, atleast not for this long. That was my only point I was trying to get across by saying custom.

The components are the same, but
[ In my opinion only.]
One worker puts together
2 or 3 bikes he's assembling a little different then the next worker's
2 or 3 he's assembling. This could be the reason some run great and some don't. I think they need more work on quality control.
P/S I do get your point about custom.

[Smylinacha]

Never got to ryde it much after I got it back from the dealer. It rode ok after but never got alot of miles on it since - it got cold and snow is on the ground now.

We'll see when Spring comes.

Your right, it just blows my mind that it can be so many different things. You would think we bought a custom bike where each one was similar but alot of different components.


Has yours still been doing ok? Or has it got too cold to ride up there?

[pitmon]

I haven't been able to ride much either since the "fix", a little though and what I have noticed is that the steering seems a lot more "touchy" so to speak like there is no play at all in the steering, and I have also noticed that there is no "assist" at all while sitting still. The other day I pulled up to the gas pump behind an SUV and when I went to leave he was still in front of me so I had to turn the wheels sharp to the right to go around him and while I was sitting still I could barely turn the handlebars, had to creep up a little to get the assist going. However, it does seem to work fine while going down the road. It is in the 20s here now so I guess I will find out more when I ride in the spring.

[truck 85]

I haven't been able to ride much either since the "fix", a little though and what I have noticed is that the steering seems a lot more "touchy" so to speak like there is no play at all in the steering, and I have also noticed that there is no "assist" at all while sitting still. The other day I pulled up to the gas pump behind an SUV and when I went to leave he was still in front of me so I had to turn the wheels sharp to the right to go around him and while I was sitting still I could barely turn the handlebars, had to creep up a little to get the assist going. However, it does seem to work fine while going down the road. It is in the 20s here now so I guess I will find out more when I ride in the spring.

that is what mine dose only it works fine when cold but after it warms up it wont turn when stoped they changed the dps allready sence they changed it it seams like at speed it is a lot easeary to turn (60+). going to stiffin up the shocks and see if that does not help a little where do you run your front shocks?

[pitmon]

My front shocks are set at whatever the factory set them at. I have never changed anything as far as shock settings (wouldn't know how). I just keep the air in the tires checked and the oil, etc. This is not something that has changed since the steering issue so I doubt it has anything to do with that. My steering was fine for 5000 miles and my problems all started with the first update. I seriously believe this is a software issue that started all of these other problems. However mine seems ok for the moment... I will ride it warily for a while though till I trust it again.

[NancysToy]

I don't know if the steering recall update started these problems, but it seems to have exposed them. One thing it did was remove the deadband around the zero steering angle, to provide assist immediately in a turn. I suspect that they also changed the programming to then require movement or a certain speed, to compensate for zero deadband and get rid of the "twitch" some of us have experienced. With instrumentation systems, if there is insufficient deadband, and some of the system sensors are off, or if the system is turned on with sensors off zero, the proportional control gets carried away and goes nuts. This could explain the problems, due to damaged, failed, or out of calibration sensors, that have been reported. A technician error could damage a sensor, especially the torque sensor, and the zeroing of the steering angle sensor is easily overlooked, which can explain subsequent failures after bad DPS units have been replaced. As was said, this is a complex system, and the steering update seems to have made it more sensitive. Just conjecture on my part, however. I firmly believe that there is no single answer to these similar difficulties.

[dave01]

Just conjecture on my part, however. I firmly believe that there is no single answer to these similar difficulties.

I have to agree. I really think its a few smaller things not working in harmony with each other and they fight each other for control. I've had issues with multiple systems with fuel management systems using a piggyback setup, but my final fix for that was a complete stand-alone system.

[jabba11]

WHile I can understand the problems people are having are serious its easy to forget that ANY part can fail at anytime on any machine. I mean realistically if we all had two wheelers a tire can blow out at speed at anytime and if you have experienced that before you know that that can be a very serious situation. So perhaps none of us should drive a motorcycle until someone can develop a tire that doesnt blow out etc etc etc. While we defintely want to see BRP work the issue lets not forget that it doesnt at this point seem to affect every SPyder. Again I say the chances of you being killed by some other idiot in a car are a lot higher than having your DPS cause you to have an accident.

[NancysToy]

WHile I can understand the problems people are having are serious its easy to forget that ANY part can fail at anytime on any machine. I mean realistically if we all had two wheelers a tire can blow out at speed at anytime and if you have experienced that before you know that that can be a very serious situation. So perhaps none of us should drive a motorcycle until someone can develop a tire that doesnt blow out etc etc etc. While we definitely want to see BRP work the issue lets not forget that it doesnt at this point seem to affect every SPyder. Again I say the chances of you being killed by some other idiot in a car are a lot higher than having your DPS cause you to have an accident.

Wise words! Probably of little comfort to those who have experienced problems, or some new riders, but very true. BMW has a sterling reputation, but my 2000 R1100RTP has had two serious recalls, one for several fuel system issues that could each cause a fire, and one for tire problems that could cause the exact kind of difficulty you described. None of these affected vehicles were removed from the road. These are a normal part of production and development for most vehicles these days it seems, and need to be taken in stride. I tend to agree with the idea that chances of an incident are higher from normal, everyday riding (especially on two wheels), but that will be of little comfort to those that worry or have serious problems. Let's hope all of the pieces of this puzzle fall into place soon.

[BLACK WIDOW]

Wise words! Probably of little comfort to those who have experienced problems, or some new riders, but very true. BMW has a sterling reputation, but my 2000 R1100RTP has had two serious recalls, one for several fuel system issues that could each cause a fire, and one for tire problems that could cause the exact kind of difficulty you described. None of these affected vehicles were removed from the road. These are a normal part of production and development for most vehicles these days it seems, and need to be taken in stride. I tend to agree with the idea that chances of an incident are higher from normal, everyday riding (especially on two wheels), but that will be of little comfort to those that worry or have serious problems. Let's hope all of the pieces of this puzzle fall into place soon.

Yes, but the operative word here is RECALL.

Michael

[spyryder]

Yes, but the operative word here is RECALL.

Michael

http://spyder.brp.com/en-CA/Owner-Ce...17.07.2009.htm

[BLACK WIDOW]

http://spyder.brp.com/en-CA/Owner-Ce...17.07.2009.htm

Maybe the operative words should be RECALL & FIX.

Michael

[wyliec]

http://spyder.brp.com/en-CA/Owner-Ce...17.07.2009.htm

Since that recall the steering problem has gotten worse. Like I said before, the steering issue has been going on for a year. BRP knows there is a problem and all they seem to be doing (at least on the surface) is replacing the DPS.

Now, if someone wants to say that parts fail, that's fine; but, when they seem to have a part that seems to have a high failure rate based on the same spyders continually have the steering problem, there's something wrong here and needs to be corrected. I don't know about you, but to me 1 year is long enough to correct a problem.

Yeah, I know, a tire can blow at anytime, you can be hit by a cager, struck by lightning and on and on.

[spyryder]

Maybe the operative words should be RECALL & FIX.

Michael

I'd think you would have to take it back as many times as it takes. I know some people have had to go back more than once. Mine has been fine since the initial recall.

[dave01]

Sorry, but having a tire blow out has nothing to do with KNOWN mechanical issues. My Spyder is down due to DEFECTIVE parts, not some random incident. And to watch a second DPS being installed and still not be correct means BRP has NO IDEA what is causing the failures. I have been riding bikes since the age of 16 and am now 48, so I have way more than enough experience to handle most issues. I have had front and rear blow-outs while riding on 2 wheels, but they did not SCARE me as much as a machine taking control of the steering and not letting me do the driving. I realize its isolated to a few Sypders, but that has ZERO comfort for those that have experienced this. To have 2 other people that I was riding with be able to tell just from observig at a distance that my Spyder was acting up lets me know that it was as bad, or worse than it felt to me. Sorry to those that dont agree with me, but I take this issue personally and will be persuing all avenues to insure BRP corrects this issue and it doesnt become a " change out the part" type of a fix. With the Spyders coming out the beginning of 08, and it now being 2010, that should have been enough time for R&D to find the cause of the failures.

[wyliec]

Sorry, but having a tire blow out has nothing to do with KNOWN mechanical issues. My Spyder is down due to DEFECTIVE parts, not some random incident. And to watch a second DPS being installed and still not be correct means BRP has NO IDEA what is causing the failures. I have been riding bikes since the age of 16 and am now 48, so I have way more than enough experience to handle most issues. I have had front and rear blow-outs while riding on 2 wheels, but they did not SCARE me as much as a machine taking control of the steering and not letting me do the driving. I realize its isolated to a few Sypders, but that has ZERO comfort for those that have experienced this. To have 2 other people that I was riding with be able to tell just from observig at a distance that my Spyder was acting up lets me know that it was as bad, or worse than it felt to me. Sorry to those that dont agree with me, but I take this issue personally and will be persuing all avenues to insure BRP corrects this issue and it doesnt become a " change out the part" type of a fix. With the Spyders coming out the beginning of 08, and it now being 2010, that should have been enough time for R&D to find the cause of the failures.

Excellent post and thank you.

[BLACK WIDOW]

I'd think you would have to take it back as many times as it takes. I know some people have had to go back more than once. Mine has been fine since the initial recall.

I haven't had any problems with my Spyder (YET) so I personally have nothing to complain about; However, there are some on this site with a very substantial motorcycle background that have had these issues which resulted in them selling the Spyder, because they were afraid it would kill them. I love my Spyder, and as I have said before it is "perfection in it's own right", but when the steering locks up in a curve or in heavy traffic at highway speeds, just the thought of that sends chills up my spine. I know that the problem may not be wide spread (at least we assume that) but it could happen to you, if it has happened to others. I know that luck eventually runs out; Then you wouldn't be around to complain to anyone.

Michael

[boborgera]

I haven't had any problems with my Spyder (YET) so I personally have nothing to complain about; However, there are some on this site with a very substantial motorcycle background that have had these issues which resulted in them selling the Spyder, because they were afraid it would kill them. I love my Spyder, and as I have said before it is "perfection in it's own right", but when the steering locks up in a curve or in heavy traffic at highway speeds, just the thought of that sends chills up my spine. I know that the problem may not be wide spread (at least we assume that) but it could happen to you, if it has happened to others. I know that luck eventually runs out; Then you wouldn't be around to complain to anyone.

Michael

Every now and then my steering comes up to bite me [before/after the RECALL] I hope it doesn't bite somebody when they're trying to hit that magical 130. But then who's fault would that be?
I'm waiting for a permanent fix, until then I'll be ready if it bites again

[Smylinacha]

Now I'm no techie but I actually understood what you said!

Hopefully BRP is on this site and read your post!

I don't know if the steering recall update started these problems, but it seems to have exposed them. One thing it did was remove the deadband around the zero steering angle, to provide assist immediately in a turn. I suspect that they also changed the programming to then require movement or a certain speed, to compensate for zero deadband and get rid of the "twitch" some of us have experienced. With instrumentation systems, if there is insufficient deadband, and some of the system sensors are off, or if the system is turned on with sensors off zero, the proportional control gets carried away and goes nuts. This could explain the problems, due to damaged, failed, or out of calibration sensors, that have been reported. A technician error could damage a sensor, especially the torque sensor, and the zeroing of the steering angle sensor is easily overlooked, which can explain subsequent failures after bad DPS units have been replaced. As was said, this is a complex system, and the steering update seems to have made it more sensitive. Just conjecture on my part, however. I firmly believe that there is no single answer to these similar difficulties.

[Smylinacha]

Maybe the operative words should be RECALL & FIX.

Michael

I like the word FIX!

[stgilmer]

I'm not the most knowledgable one about the recall process, not ever having to file a complaint til now. Can they not do a second recall for a previous issue that was recalled??

When I think about it, it just doesn't make sense to me. When the first steering recall came about back in 09 june i think it was...I remember hearing something about a female getting hurt or worse because of it. Besides that it was all I heard. From just the members on here there seems like a more spread of the problem now than there was then. And please don't take that as me saying that there are numerous problems, I know not everyone is having them. I just didn't understand if there is more report of it now than then could it be that they can't do a duplicate recall??


Still nothing on arrival of the gear sensor for mine, I would like to know why or how they came to the conclusion on mine not to put a 3rd dps when it plainly said check dps and I saw with my own eyes when the buds had "no solution, replace part"

[krb1945]

Lamont know about this problem via this link... http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=14122


maybe he can get, give or otherwise assist you with this problem you are having.

One of my 08's had a problem but after the updates the problems went away.

I'm sure he can give you some help. /Ken

[stgilmer]

Lamont know about this problem via this link... http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=14122


maybe he can get, give or otherwise assist you with this problem you are having.

One of my 08's had a problem but after the updates the problems went away.

I'm sure he can give you some help. /Ken

Thanks but I have already went that route awhile back, it helped in getting Carlo to call me, which let him be aware of the problem. Doing that again I don't think would help since it is already in the shop and it seems no one knows what to do. Otherwise I'd have it back after 8 weeks now. But thanks anyways Ken.

[Smylinacha]

Do you like your dealer?

I'm not the most knowledgable one about the recall process, not ever having to file a complaint til now. Can they not do a second recall for a previous issue that was recalled??

When I think about it, it just doesn't make sense to me. When the first steering recall came about back in 09 june i think it was...I remember hearing something about a female getting hurt or worse because of it. Besides that it was all I heard. From just the members on here there seems like a more spread of the problem now than there was then. And please don't take that as me saying that there are numerous problems, I know not everyone is having them. I just didn't understand if there is more report of it now than then could it be that they can't do a duplicate recall??


Still nothing on arrival of the gear sensor for mine, I would like to know why or how they came to the conclusion on mine not to put a 3rd dps when it plainly said check dps and I saw with my own eyes when the buds had "no solution, replace part"