Where to get a 1330 engine?

[Scottncol]

I have a (possible) seized 1330 engine from a 2015 Spyder F3.

I’ll know more tomorrow.

My questions are:

Where is a good place to find a Remanufactured engine?

Used engine?

Can I swap with any 1330 engine? Do I need to be concerned with the transmission? Mine has the semiautomatic.

I have another post on a different page but this page seems more appropriate.

[Peter Aawen]

If you go down that path, you'll almost certainly need to get the complete engine, clutch, and the SE6 gearbox; as they are integral components that all live in the same block & engine/trans assembly; and they share the one oil & lubrication system, so if anything has broken enough to be able to stop the engine from turning, then it's extremely likely that at least the littler bits of chewed metal have also gone into/thru the clutch & gearbox too!!

That said, these Rotax engines have, to date, been pretty much bullet proof - I think that here on the Forum, we've only heard of maybe 2 or 3 major failures out of close on 100,000 Spyders running these 1330 engines, and many of these engines are still reliably running with 100,000 miles plus on them - some are even pushing 200,000 miles now! So I don't really like your chances of finding anything good out there, at least, probably not anything that doesn't come out of a wrecked Spyder - and as you may have guessed from the wrecked engine mentioned in the other thread, if the Spyder it was in has been wrecked badly enough to write it off, then because of the way these engine/trans assemblies are used as what effectively becomes 'a part' of the overall framework of the Spyder, there's a good chance that some of the important bits have been busted beyond useful/easy repair!

So once again, I don't think it'll be all that easy finding a 'good, used engine' out there, not even one that's 'remanufactured' or come out of a wrecked Spyder.... But maybe BRP will sell you a new unit! Sorry.

[BertRemington]

Peter is right about getting a complete sealed engine. It's okay if the intake air box with injectors isn't included or the exhaust header isn't included but that's about it.

Here are two to consider:

This one is in your state: https://www.ebay.com/itm/404518538697/ so you can visit for a closer examination and some history.

I've purchased from these folks and they deliver what they promise: https://www.ebay.com/itm/386341057827/ Not only do they provide useful pictures but they also show the Spyder the parts came from.

So are you going to buy an RT or F3 engine? Same performance with a $1,500 difference. A few days of cleaning up the aluminum exterior of the RT engine followed by some high quality spray paint would be my choice.

Question: does your F3 have a 3 spoke or 6 spoke rear drive pulley?

Whether or not your engine needs to be replaced, you need to establish a maintenance baseline. Perform all services not matter the mileage. Spark plugs are new? Replace them with parts you know installed in the proper manner you know. Baja Ron can help with this including tools (eg belt tension Krikit tool). It might also be useful to perform specialty services such as sending the fuel injectors out for cleaning.

Anyway publish a list of all the maintenance services you intend to perform and we will tell you what you missed.

And find someone who can perform a BUDS diagnostic service and if needed firmware update. You might have to pay extra for them to travel to your house -- open your wallet! You need to sort out those mystery diagnostic codes.

You want your Spyder in a condition this Spring where you are looking down the road to your destination not wondering if it will get you there.

[Mikey]

If you don't have the money for a crate motor, I would just part the thing out and call it a day! But you have a lot of investigating to do before that day! Any used motor you're going to find would have to be taken down and looked at or bench tested, why go through the pain of flipping a motor without doing that? Good luck whatever you decide.

[Scottncol]

If you go down that path, you'll almost certainly need to get the complete engine, clutch, and the SE6 gearbox; as they are integral components that all live in the same block & engine/trans assembly; and they share the one oil & lubrication system, so if anything has broken enough to be able to stop the engine from turning, then it's extremely likely that at least the littler bits of chewed metal have also gone into/thru the clutch & gearbox too!!

That said, these Rotax engines have, to date, been pretty much bullet proof - I think that here on the Forum, we've only heard of maybe 2 or 3 major failures out of close on 100,000 Spyders running these 1330 engines, and many of these engines are still reliably running with 100,000 miles plus on them - some are even pushing 200,000 miles now! So I don't really like your chances of finding anything good out there, at least, probably not anything that doesn't come out of a wrecked Spyder - and as you may have guessed from the wrecked engine mentioned in the other thread, if the Spyder it was in has been wrecked badly enough to write it off, then because of the way these engine/trans assemblies are used as what effectively becomes 'a part' of the overall framework of the Spyder, there's a good chance that some of the important bits have been busted beyond useful/easy repair!

So once again, I don't think it'll be all that easy finding a 'good, used engine' out there, not even one that's 'remanufactured' or come out of a wrecked Spyder.... But maybe BRP will sell you a new unit! Sorry.

This gives me renewed hope.

I will know today. Waiting for Amazon to bring me a 16mm hex socket.

[Scottncol]

If you don't have the money for a crate motor, I would just part the thing out and call it a day! But you have a lot of investigating to do before that day! Any used motor you're going to find would have to be taken down and looked at or bench tested, why go through the pain of flipping a motor without doing that? Good luck whatever you decide.

I don’t even know where to begin to buy a crated motor, if needed. I have plenty of money for a crate motor... WHERE ARE THEY?

[Scottncol]

Peter is right about getting a complete sealed engine. It's okay if the intake air box with injectors isn't included or the exhaust header isn't included but that's about it.

Here are two to consider:

This one is in your state: https://www.ebay.com/itm/404518538697/ so you can visit for a closer examination and some history.

I've purchased from these folks and they deliver what they promise: https://www.ebay.com/itm/386341057827/ Not only do they provide useful pictures but they also show the Spyder the parts came from.

So are you going to buy an RT or F3 engine? Same performance with a $1,500 difference. A few days of cleaning up the aluminum exterior of the RT engine followed by some high quality spray paint would be my choice.

That is my question. Will an RT engine fit in an F3 bike with somewhat ease?

[Scottncol]

RT engine. Will it fit?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40451853869...&segname=11050

[BertRemington]

I have plenty of money for a crate motor...

In that case, this is the engine I would purchase.

I've purchased from these folks and they deliver what they promise: https://www.ebay.com/itm/386341057827/ Not only do they provide useful pictures but they also show the Spyder the parts came from. https://www.youtube.com/embed/zonv6SXjNPg?rel=0

In addition to being an F3 vice the $2K RT, the external condition is much better, many sensors with wiring harness are included and amazingly shipping (freight to commercial address) is free.

They typically accept an offer 10% lower of the asking price so you're looking at $3.5K for an 11K miles motor.

I recommend this engine and this seller.

[Scottncol]

In that case, this is the engine I would purchase.



In addition to being an F3 vice the $2K RT, the external condition is much better, many sensors with wiring harness are included and amazingly shipping (freight to commercial address) is free.

They typically accept an offer 10% lower of the asking price so you're looking at $3.5K for an 11K miles motor.

I recommend this engine and this seller.

Thank you.

Amazingly, I found a salvage yard 5 miles from my house that has an RT Limited with an engine. Need to go look at it to see if it fits, if it works and how many miles.

[AndysF3S]

I don’t even know where to begin to buy a crated motor, if needed. I have plenty of money for a crate motor... WHERE ARE THEY?

BRP/Can Am have the oem crate motors that for sleds anyway, could be bought as a short block which could save you a bunch of money (providing the head is fine) and you can start at the dealer. Good luck

[Scottncol]

BRP/Can Am have the oem crate motors that for sleds anyway, could be bought as a short block which could save you a bunch of money (providing the head is fine) and you can start at the dealer. Good luck

Thanks.. dealer wants WAY too much!

Almost $6000 for complete. I'll check on the block price.

[AndysF3S]

Thanks.. dealer wants WAY too much!

Almost $6000 for complete. I'll check on the block price.

True but unless you can do the swapping of parts yourself it may cost more. We don't know why the center cylinder failed but it may require a new injector etc... and all in the complete crate engine may be the most cost effective???

[Scottncol]

This is the number two cylinder.

OUCH!

IMG_1029.jpg

[Peter Aawen]

This is the number two cylinder.

OUCH!

IMG_1029.jpg

That looks like something has dropped onto the top of the piston... But those marks don't look like marks made by a valve!!

There appears to be some thread marks in at least one of them, and there's a whole lot of smallish 'divots' & 'hit marks' for something that stopped fairly 'suddenly'...

Any chance your bore-scope caught sight of whatever it was that dropped into that cylinder??

Either way, I'd guess that there's probably more damage to find a bit deeper down in that hole; and then there's all the metal bits that will have been stirred up and circulating in/with the oil!

Good Luck!

[pegasus1300]

In that case I would go for the engine that Bert suggested in post#9. You will spend that much or more on rebuilding what you have.

[AndysF3S]

Thanks for the picture, my SWAG is that it was a ring land (top of piston failed above the ring) because of preignition. The cause of preignition is likely bad fuel (phase seperation from ethanol fuel during storage) and or the injector was partially plugged and leaned out the cylinder with preignition going on until the piston failure. I had a similar failure on a big block GMC with a supercharger and too much timing and it did not rattle long until it seized but the head and cylinder were fine with a light hone, new piston and a bunch of labor. A fragment from the ring land came up through the intake valve and was found in an adjacent cylinder but no damage.

Good luck with finding and replacing the engine.

[BertRemington]

Peter observed

There appears to be some thread marks in at least one of them, and there's a whole lot of smallish 'divots' & 'hit marks' for something that stopped fairly 'suddenly'

Here's a scenario. The previous owner performed the spark plug change. There are three Torx Flange Screw M6 X 20 holding the three Ignition Coil Ass'y Includes 5 to 6 in place https://www.canamseadooskidooparts.c...76/valve-cover. When either disassembling or reassembling the ignition coils, he removed/installed the screws one at a time rather than all at the same time. This leaves an open hole not plugged by an ignition coil. A screw dropped into Cylinder #2. He didn't notice and thought he lost it on his garage floor. The gaskets on the ignition coils fit tightly enough plus the fit on the spark plug cap is tight enough to prevent the ignition coil from backing out. Maybe he had a spare M6 screw most likely not. And that is the cause of the thread marks and divots.

Anyone else want to offer a scenario?

BTW there's a lesson-learned here. When I changed my spark plugs I always had all three ignition coils in place when removing/installing those screws. Open holes are a small parts magnet.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Peter observed Here's a scenario. The previous owner performed the spark plug change. There are three Torx Flange Screw M6 X 20 holding the three Ignition Coil Ass'y Includes 5 to 6 in place https://www.canamseadooskidooparts.c...76/valve-cover. When either disassembling or reassembling the ignition coils, he removed/installed the screws one at a time rather than all at the same time. This leaves an open hole not plugged by an ignition coil. A screw dropped into Cylinder #2. He didn't notice and thought he lost it on his garage floor. The gaskets on the ignition coils fit tightly enough plus the fit on the spark plug cap is tight enough to prevent the ignition coil from backing out. Maybe he had a spare M6 screw most likely not. And that is the cause of the thread marks and divots.

Anyone else want to offer a scenario?

BTW there's a lesson-learned here. When I changed my spark plugs I always had all three ignition coils in place when removing/installing those screws. Open holes are a small parts magnet.

I'm betting the previous 80 year old owner ..... didn't change the plugs .... that Spyder only had 15,000 mi. on it .... why would He even think about changing the plugs??? .... However, Dealers on the other hand ..... I remember when Dealers would happily do a VALVE check service on the V-twins (for about $ 800) even tho it was pretty well known that the valves were within spec ..... JMHO ....Mike

[Mikey]

Wasn't there a tech report done on the engine? Wonder if that may have been where the spare parts came from!

[BertRemington]

Being in the same age cohort as the previous owner I remember cleaning and replacing copper electrode spark plugs rather more often than 48K miles. And 12,000 is often a milestone. So maybe the previous owner wanted a look-see before deciding on cleaning or replacement.

[AndysF3S]

I'm in the same time period and my SWAG is the piston had failed when the dealer said there was no compression and putting new plugs in, was a way out without an engine tear down. A 3 cylinder will run on 2 cylinders and it looks like it was run after the damage until the piston damge lost a big enough piece to stop the rotation. Just an opinion but doesn't matter at this stage.

I have not replaced an engine in a Spyder but I am wondering if the OP should see if the engine comes with the ECM just in case there is a some difference in programming between the donor Spyder and his??

[Scottncol]

I'm in the same time period and my SWAG is the piston had failed when the dealer said there was no compression and putting new plugs in, was a way out without an engine tear down. A 3 cylinder will run on 2 cylinders and it looks like it was run after the damage until the piston damge lost a big enough piece to stop the rotation. Just an opinion but doesn't matter at this stage.

I have not replaced an engine in a Spyder but I am wondering if the OP should see if the engine comes with the ECM just in case there is a some difference in programming between the donor Spyder and his??

Great idea. I would assume that they could use the current ECM, since the engines are the same. Thoughts?

[Scottncol]

Peter observed Here's a scenario. The previous owner performed the spark plug change. There are three Torx Flange Screw M6 X 20 holding the three Ignition Coil Ass'y Includes 5 to 6 in place https://www.canamseadooskidooparts.c...76/valve-cover. When either disassembling or reassembling the ignition coils, he removed/installed the screws one at a time rather than all at the same time. This leaves an open hole not plugged by an ignition coil. A screw dropped into Cylinder #2. He didn't notice and thought he lost it on his garage floor. The gaskets on the ignition coils fit tightly enough plus the fit on the spark plug cap is tight enough to prevent the ignition coil from backing out. Maybe he had a spare M6 screw most likely not. And that is the cause of the thread marks and divots.

Anyone else want to offer a scenario?

BTW there's a lesson-learned here. When I changed my spark plugs I always had all three ignition coils in place when removing/installing those screws. Open holes are a small parts magnet.

Those bolts will not fit down into the hole. The spark plug holes are less than 8mm and the bolts are much larger than that.

[Scottncol]

Does the engine have to be specific if you have semi-automatic? All the engines I see online only say 6 speed, without reference to semi-automatic or clutch.

Ready to buy an ebay engine,... just need to know that.

Both say SE6 in the ad but look very different.
See the pics below. Both 1330 engines.

s-l1600 (1).jpg. s-l1600.jpg