No Competition for Can Am

[blackphoenix38]

I was talking about this with a couple friends. What brought it up was that there were zero changes to the Ryker for 2024.

If Can Am had any sort of competition in the reverse trike market, I don't think they'd be making the choices they are now. It just feels comfortable, safe choices because they know there is no where else to go for this product.

If Harley came out with one, you know those die hard Harley guys would go right back to them. If another company made a more performance based model, they would lose what younger/spirted demo they do have.

Just saying, I could be completely wrong. But it's been brought a few times to me by different people, so there might be something to it.

[BajaRon]

I was talking about this with a couple friends. What brought it up was that there were zero changes to the Ryker for 2024.

If Can Am had any sort of competition in the reverse trike market, I don't think they'd be making the choices they are now. It just feels comfortable, safe choices because they know there is no where else to go for this product.

If Harley came out with one, you know those die hard Harley guys would go right back to them. If another company made a more performance based model, they would lose what younger/spirted demo they do have.

Just saying, I could be completely wrong. But it's been brought a few times to me by different people, so there might be something to it.

I hear what you are saying. Competition is a good thing. But think of how may companies change things just to say they did, with no real improvement. I remember when car companies put out the same thing for years until something significant came along to justify real improvement. It costs money to change things. Which raises prices. Not good in an already inflationary market. The Ryker and Spyder are basically sound platforms, these days. Of course, you can always improve on something. And there are some areas in connectivity with the Spyder that could use some work.

But everything from parts to competent techs improves with fewer changes. And price may be better as well. There is always a silver lining.

[Jesster72]

I think most vehicle manufacturers make small changes for a time, then every so often do a major release, so CanAm isn't alone there (in my opinion). But GM or Ford or insert your favorite mfg here, not releasing a new truck platform for 3 or 5 years is significantly different, to blackphoenix's point. There is no other reverse trike manufacturer to drive the improvements/changes.

What we have is CanAM and CanAm only for now. I would be happy just to hear that they are addressing known issues and improve some of the customer service issues they have run into, however prevalent those are. I haven't had an issue with my dealer, or my Spyder, but as most have, I read and hear about a few horror stories.

Food for thought, thanks for the post.

[broderp]

I agree 100%, but the issue is somewhat complicated. For 2024 Can-Am had a large price increase, minimal changes/partial changes for 2024 that for me was not a high enough value add to preorder or choose over a 2023 model on sale.

My reasons:

• Only one color option for F3-S (down from 2)
• The only color was not one I could live with. (black and red)
• No Android Auto (I don't do Apple- anything)
• LED Headlights are cool, but I can add LED bulbs
• In my case the 2024 would have been about 3K more, for what IMO was less.

I believe like most companies, BRP is trying to squeeze as much out of every unit with minimal effort required on their end. Basically they throw us a bone from time to time while raising prices and making more money. Its a hit or miss. They missed the mark for me this time.

Honestly, had there been a performance, technical innovation improvement or even a redesign to give it a new look (utilizing the same chassis and mounting of the current design) I would have likely paid the 3-4K for the new model. I'm actually surprised there are not several companies out there making 3rd party panels to give the Spyder a new look. This type of thing could push Can-Am to do more to compete with lost sales due to stagnant changes.

Just my 2 cents.

[ARtraveler]

All good points so far.

We have entered an age of a whole new economy. Reason has been thrown out the door. They now have us trained to accept: no new changes, delays in parts, service being performed by the uninformed, price increase on every side, quality on most products a new low or declining, and shoving products that most do not want down everyone's throat.

Caveat Emptor.

[troop]

Too bad the Honda Neowing never came to reality. It would have been kickazz..

[Leaping1]

I was talking about this with a couple friends. What brought it up was that there were zero changes to the Ryker for 2024.

If Can Am had any sort of competition in the reverse trike market, I don't think they'd be making the choices they are now. It just feels comfortable, safe choices because they know there is no where else to go for this product.

If Harley came out with one, you know those die hard Harley guys would go right back to them. If another company made a more performance based model, they would lose what younger/spirted demo they do have.

Just saying, I could be completely wrong. But it's been brought a few times to me by different people, so there might be something to it.

I am one of those die hard Harley fans that would not go back to Harley regardless where their wheels are located.

[Cobwebs]

I watch the sales numbers over here they are pitifully low. I'm surprised BRP haven't abandoned us totally.Per capita if US market is the same be thankfull would be my advice.

[CopperSpyder]

I see it a little different with Can Am reverse trike line. They came out in 2008 with the first one, 2024 will be their 16th year. I think they have made lots of changes and improvements from different models and changes to models over just 16 years. GS, RS, RT F3, Ryker with sub models to some of the lines as they were making improvements. You just can't make all the people happy all the time, that is a lot of changes in 16 years. They have made lots of improvements with motors, lights, radio, brakes, etc. over time. After all Harley still has only two wheels and a belt but with a great dealership & repair shop. Where I do agree Can Am reverse trike line needs to improve its the dealership assembly & repair shop. Thats my positive spin on it, is your glass half full or half empty.

[Gwolf]

Years Ago, Harley came out with the V-Rod series. Huge braced out frame like a road racer, water cooled, 4 valves per cylinder, powerful, and fast. Not many buyers jumped on that bandwagon. It was something different, unlike a traditional Harley engine and styling. The V-rod model died a slow death, with weak sales. Every V-rod owner I talked to at the runs and rallies loved them, but they were not the old traditional Harley. It was too much, too soon.

[Kromm]

Years Ago, Harley came out with the V-Rod series. Huge braced out frame like a road racer, water cooled, 4 valves per cylinder, powerful, and fast. Not many buyers jumped on that bandwagon. It was something different, unlike a traditional Harley engine and styling. The V-rod model died a slow death, with weak sales. Every V-rod owner I talked to at the runs and rallies loved them, but they were not the old traditional Harley. It was too much, too soon.

When the V-Rod first came out, I looked into getting one. I really liked everything about it except for one thing. The size of the fuel tank, Way too small ( 3.5 gal if I remember right). I have owned another bike with a small tank (2004 Yamaha V-Max). As with the V-Rod, The V-Max has a cult following. It was a very fun bike to ride. The problem was with a just over 3 gallon tank, and at the 30 ish MPG, your range is very limited. Same with the V-Rod. When I would take off with my buddy, we had to plan our trips around gas stops (every 90 miles Max). I think that had a lot to do with it's downfall. Harley's are usually associated with cruisers that have more range. I was looking at the V-Rod as my "retirement present to my self" in 2008. I ended up buy a 2008 Yamaha FJR, another great bike which I still own. I purchased my "22 RTL because of physical reasons. I have Arthritis in my hip and it was causing me issues on long trips ( we still like to take off for multiple day trips). The RTL is perfect for that.

[Gwolf]

When the V-Rod first came out, I looked into getting one. I really liked everything about it except for one thing. The size of the fuel tank, Way too small ( 3.5 gal if I remember right). I have owned another bike with a small tank (2004 Yamaha V-Max). As with the V-Rod, The V-Max has a cult following. It was a very fun bike to ride. The problem was with a just over 3 gallon tank, and at the 30 ish MPG, your range is very limited. Same with the V-Rod. When I would take off with my buddy, we had to plan our trips around gas stops (every 90 miles Max). I think that had a lot to do with it's downfall. Harley's are usually associated with cruisers that have more range. I was looking at the V-Rod as my "retirement present to my self" in 2008. I ended up buy a 2008 Yamaha FJR, another great bike which I still own. I purchased my "22 RTL because of physical reasons. I have Arthritis in my hip and it was causing me issues on long trips ( we still like to take off for multiple day trips). The RTL is perfect for that.

Yeah, understand the small fuel tank issue. The way they were built with the fuel tank on the frame members, a larger tank would have to be custom built. I rode a Harley Sportster all over the country. The Sportsters came stock with 3.2 gallon fuel tank, but with the mounting it could be replaced with an after-market tank just over 4 gallons. Still small for riding across national forests or on the Blue Ridge Parkway. I carried several MSR fuel bottles on the longer rides. Never ran out, but was running on reserve tank fumes a few times. I really did not know the V-rod tank was that small. It looks larger.

[OregonRyker]

The Vrod gas tank is under the seat, what looks like a gas tank holds electronics and air filter. Our 2004 Suzuki LC1500 was the same, it had a 4 gallon tank under the seat. My wife and I rode US 50 across Nevada on that LC, with 4 gallons at @ 38 mpg I was worried about making it from gas station to gas station. We got across Nev. but I kept the speed down trying to keep mpg up.

[Cobwebs]

As a V Rod owner I can say HD never intended for it to be a long distance cruiser. They just don't have the ergonomics for that. It was a Willie G Davidson design masterpiece that leant itself to customisation by the talented and could form the basis for a drag racing project.
Ryker is a design exercise in minimalism and cost containment, if you want more buy a Spyder or break out the tools and the imagination.

[blackphoenix38]

Ryker is a design exercise in minimalism and cost containment, if you want more buy a Spyder or break out the tools and the imagination.

We are breaking out the tools I'm working with BLRtuning and Treal performance. Just ordered their stage 2 CVT clutch. I'll be installing that soon and see how much awesomeness is gained by it.

the aftermarket is great for Rykers, just wish it had a bit more from the factory.

[SilverFox1]

If Honda would come out with a true (not a kit) and affordable reverse trike... they would take over the market!

[ARtraveler]

If Honda would come out with a true (not a kit) and affordable reverse trike... they would take over the market!

I have to say that with your statement. I have also been saying for years that any well known brand (Yamaha, Kawi, Suziki, Honda) etc.) would have an instant response from the Spyder crowd. Mostly, from just wanting something "different."

[Cobwebs]

We are breaking out the tools I'm working with BLRtuning and Treal performance. Just ordered their stage 2 CVT clutch. I'll be installing that soon and see how much awesomeness is gained by it.

the aftermarket is great for Rykers, wish it just had a bit more from the factory.

But that's not competition. Stick with the aftermarket.

[TroubledJuan]

Too bad the Honda Neowing never came to reality. It would have been kickazz..

I waited and waited for the Neowing to hit the market.. but Mother Honda just keeps teasing us with it..

[Bangorbob]

If honda made one, I'm in.

[MRH]

I'm more concerned that they have a profitable market (and provide good service in return). With the RT, the two major changes were real upgrades, and I'm sure we will see a fourth model in a few years. I'd rather they keep their system simple and keep making Spyders. Fix what might need fixing, and focus on a great machine rather than a list of features we barely use or care about for the sake of another year.

[Navydad]

I do a lot of reading and research on the status of the motorcycle world, mostly on the business side of it. Boring to some, but I find some of it interesting. These guys do a lot of long term research in the effort to build machines that will sell. A lot of great machines have went away due to government regulations. Just ask HD and other companies that have been building motor vehicles for years. It is getting harder and more expensive to meet regs and that means fewer new models are being designed. That money is going elsewhere. As far as Honda or any other company jumping on the reverse trike band wagon I just don't see it happening because the market just isn't there. It may be some day, but not now. They are in business to make $$$ and a thousand guys wanting a reverse trike by Honda is not a money maker. Their signature machine, THE GOLD WING, isn't even what it once was. Used to walk into a Honda shop and see Wings lined up, now several shops here in Ohio won't even stock them and if they do it's only one bike. They're not selling well and big bikes from other companies aren't either. The booming market now is the smaller, lighter, less expensive machines and there are some very nice ones out there. A reverse trike with the complexity and expense of a Spyder doesn't fit that category, thus the Ryker which is selling rather well. My local dealer has more Rykers on the floor than 1330 machines. What's that tell you? Another point is that the U.S. market no longer dictates what manufacturers build and sell. It is a world market and the world is wanting smaller, lighter, less expensive, and better engineered machines, and the companies are building and selling those by the truckloads. Scooters are a good example. There are some amazing machines out there when it comes to scooters, but the U.S. gets very few of them because they don't sell well here. Overseas they sell like hotcakes. Royal Enfield's biggest machine is only a 650 yet they led the world in motorcycle sales last year. They build a very good machine by the way. Reverse trikes are a small, a very small, part of the big picture. Expensive to build with a small profit margin and the Big Four isn't interested. A vast majority of HD's, Wings, other big bikes, and Spyders are nothing more than butt jewelry that get pulled out on the weekend and MAY see 1500 miles a year. That's a lot of money just to ride to lunch on Saturday with the crew. It's getting more expensive and fewer are doing it, especially younger folks. I know there are folks out there that travel and put lots of miles on these machines, but face it, we are in the minority. BRP is not getting rich building a reverse trike. It is their other products that make them a profitable company. If it was a gold mine we would have machines from other manufacturers.

[jbim]

It's true there's no competition for trikes but it's obviously not a huge market. If it was, other players would get in. In some way they are their own competition and their main focus should be to stay in business. Which they have done but the trikes business is still young and considering the price of the units, it will always be precarious. That said the prototype of the Neowing looked awesome and it would have come with the Honda servicing network.

[sjtryon]

For 2024 Can-Am had a large price increase, minimal changes/partial changes for 2024 that for me was not a high enough value add to preorder or choose over a 2023 model on sale.

• In my case the 2024 would have been about 3K more, for what IMO was less.

They missed the mark for me this time.
Honestly, had there been a performance, technical innovation improvement or even a redesign to give it a new look (utilizing the same chassis and mounting of the current design) I would have likely paid the 3-4K for the new model.

I arrived at the same conclusion. I’m moving from a 2020 RT to an F3 Limited. I first was considering the 2024 F3 as I’m an Apple person and would like the CarPlay (mostly because the BRP Connect is so bad). But as attractive as that change was, it was NOT worth the significant increase in price. I found a 2023 F3 Limited and will be happily riding that around the Country. The financial difference works out to over $4,000 in savings.

Steven

[Gwolf]

There was (and still is) several small independent groups building side by side reverse trike style vehicles. Some had the rear end of a motorcycle in back and the only parts actually custom built was the front end and controls. A few were enclosed and others came in various configurations. You can find them on the Internet if you search for them. Most were very expensive and not really competition for the Polaris Slingshot. I looked at some, but being seated inside is not a good place if you get t-Boned at a stop sign or light. Not good to be T-boned on a Spyder either, but you would be more likely to be thrown clear. Seated inside and down low, you would have little chance. There is still research and experiments going on, but government regulations and money for a startup will likely keep it down to just a very few ever leaving the shop with a tag on the back.

Take a look at the T-Rex, the Slingshot, and some of the custom builds by individuals. They are not really motorcycles at all. They are more like reverse trike cars, but the style is similar to reverse trike motorcycles.