'Learnt Gear' RESET - will this let the computer to re-learn MY style of riding?

[FNQJohn]

2011 RTS Semi-Auto Spyder

I noticed that there is a section within BUDS2 that shows each gear has been 'Learnt' this is indicated with a green dot. There is also a RESET button.

My understanding of this particular feature of BUDS2 is that the first rider does his thing and the computer learns his preferred 'Style' of riding. This is then locked in and unless the reset button is clicked, nothing will change. I may be completely off track though.

As I am the second owner of the bike, I feel that the allowed upshift speeds are a little too high for my liking.

My question to someone who knows. Will resetting the learnt gears allow the computer to re-learn my preferred style of riding?

[Peter Aawen]

I'm sorry that I can't help you with your question, but you really need to be aware that these pre 2014 semi-auto's, the SE5's, REALLY object to changing gears at revs that are too LOW!!

They NEED to have revs of at least about 3500 rpm showing on the tacho before you initiate an upshift, or you risk destroying the Centrifugal Clutch, and these aren't all that easy to replace &/or get parts for these days! The older threads on the Forum contain a fair bit of info about this and the issues/damage caused if you want to go searching; but back in the day, many of the SE5 riders who were more used to low revving high torque motors created problems and expense for themselves simply by trying to change up too early &/or not keeping the engine revs up! The V-Twin motors thrive on revs - in fact, if you are running around town at 50-60 kph with anything less than about 4500-5000 rpm showing and you're in any gear higher than Second or maybe Third gear, then you are very likely doing yourself AND your Spyder a disservice - do that for long enough and it WILL cost you!

The Centrifugal Clutch doesn't really start to engage fully until about 3300 rpm, and the engine/trans has been set up/tuned to run at its best somewhat above that - hence the recommendation for having AT LEAST 3500 rpm on board! Check out the Do's & Don'ts Sticky at the top of the Spyder General Discussion sub-forum (& linked in your Welcome post, as well as below ) for more info, just make sure you're reading the bits for the V-Twin/998 motor, cos the lazier but torquier 1330 Triple engines with the SE6 trans run a Hydraulic Clutch that just needs the engine running with some oil pressure for them to work - but the SE5 V-Twins need REVS to make their Centrifugal Clutch engage and to keep it engaged! So lowering your shift revs might not be such a great idea!

Do's & Don'ts for new Spyder Owners

[ARtraveler]

I have owned 4 of the 998 engines. They do LIKE high revs. I found the "sweet spot" to be at 5500 for shifting the gears. Red line is around 9,000 if memory serves. At revs in the 3000 you are almost lugging the engine. At 5500 the gears silently snick into the next one. If your good on the clutch, it will feel like you did not even change gears.

You will also notice a big power feeling when shifting at the higher revs (5500). The 998 will feel sluggish if you try to keep it in the 3000 range.

The new (2014 and up 1330/3's) are very comfortable with 3500 as the "sweet spot." You will not need sixth gear until you get over 60 mph (thats 100 KM's per hour). I have owned three of the 1330 machines. You are NOT going to hurt the 998 engine keeping it in the 5500 range at all times. If you don't need a higher gear, don't go there.

On a vacation to Hawaii, we rented a 998 and drove the famous Hana Highway on Maui. 50 miles of twisty curves with 15 mph speed limits. We never left first gear the whole trip.

[pegasus1300]

I don't shift out of any gear until 6000 and I down shift if it close to 4000. I try to cruise between 5,200 and 5500. I drive more by the tach than the Speedometer. I only get into top gear if I know I am going to be on a road over 65 for awhile.
2012 RTL 79,000 miles.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IMHO I think " Remember " is what the computer does & records that info..... I don't think it programs the future in regards to who & how it's driven .... good luck, & take the advice given by others about where the rev range should be ....Mike

[Snowbelt Spyder]

2011 RTS Semi-Auto Spyder

I noticed that there is a section within BUDS2 that shows each gear has been 'Learnt' this is indicated with a green dot. There is also a RESET button.

My understanding of this particular feature of BUDS2 is that the first rider does his thing and the computer learns his preferred 'Style' of riding. This is then locked in and unless the reset button is clicked, nothing will change. I may be completely off track though.

As I am the second owner of the bike, I feel that the allowed upshift speeds are a little too high for my liking.

My question to someone who knows. Will resetting the learnt gears allow the computer to re-learn my preferred style of riding?

Sorry John, but that's not what it means at all. The RPM limits for allowing an upshift are hard coded into the system and can't be changed. The intention of those limits is for protection of the centrifugal clutch on the SE5. But, you’ll want to follow the guidance above for RPMs and shifting. That’s for even added protection. It’s a Rotax, not a Harley.

What you are looking at is just an indication that the Gear Box Position Sensor (GBPS) has been taken through its RESET procedure. The ECM now knows, or has "learned", the value of the output signal from the sensor, corresponding to each gear. Unlike a sensor from the past - that has a switch contact for each gear - this is a sensor that produces an output voltage for each gear. The RESET function in BUDS is for when you fire up the machine for the first time in its life, or when you replace the sensor or ECM. It has nothing to do with riding style or anything personal.

Please don't RESET that. You'll not want to got through the RESET procedure again. It involves jacking up the rear tire and running through all of the gears. Although, if I had to do that procedure today, I would put the laptop in the frunk and go for a ride. Since you already have BUDS, you could benefit from downloading a service manual. It will explain a lot.

One thing that you can check on though, is to go into your settings on the Spyder, and make sure that Trailer Mode is turned off - unless and of course you are pulling the trailer. Because of the additional load on the Spyder, Trailer Mode raises the upshift and downshift limits, in order to add additional clutch protection.

[Jetfixer]

Snowbelt's response is correct. However I would like to point out that you mention BUDS2. You should be using BUDS, the original version on your bike. BUDS2 is only for model year 2017 and newer.

[BajaRon]

2011 RTS Semi-Auto Spyder

I noticed that there is a section within BUDS2 that shows each gear has been 'Learnt' this is indicated with a green dot. There is also a RESET button.

My understanding of this particular feature of BUDS2 is that the first rider does his thing and the computer learns his preferred 'Style' of riding. This is then locked in and unless the reset button is clicked, nothing will change. I may be completely off track though.

As I am the second owner of the bike, I feel that the allowed upshift speeds are a little too high for my liking.

My question to someone who knows. Will resetting the learnt gears allow the computer to re-learn my preferred style of riding?

As mentioned by others, don't do it. You'll not get the desired results. As with any machine, it is important to ride it as designed. Many came off Harley's in the beginning and destroyed SE clutches because they rode their Spyder the same way they rode their previous machine. One of the reasons the early Spyders got a reputation for being unreliable.

You need to keep the RPM's at 3,500 or above. That gives you some cushion from the 3,200 RPM lock-up point on the clutch pack. An RPM that can vary some from machine to machine and other factors. Also, as already mentioned, the 998 Rotax engine is designed to rev. It's as hard on that motor to lug it as it is on a Harley to over rev. The 998 doesn't start making HP until 5,500 RPM. Right about where the rev limiter starts to kick in on many V-Twin Harleys.

Your sweet spot for power is 5,500~7,500. 4,500 is OK if you're just cruising along. But if you want to get out of your own way in a hurry, you'll need to downshift at least 1 gear for that to happen.

After awhile, you'll get used to the way the engine sounds, and it will become 'Normal'. Good luck and have fun!

[FNQJohn]

Thank you everyone for your input. As I have no user manual for the software, it really pays to belong to a group like this one as figuring it out on my own can only lead to success or disaster.

I have been paying closer attention to the allowed minimum speed that it will change from 1st to 2nd. It's 30KMH

My initial concern was that when I leave my driveway, I am on a pretty tight curve in the road and getting up to 30KMH to upshift was looking pretty freaky till my brain managed to figure out that I can chill till I'm almost out of the curve before I speed up. That's what I have been doing all along, except when leaving home. Lets put it down to too much eggnog.

Jetfixer mentioned that I should be using BUDS instead of BUDS2. Don't ask me what is going on as I definitely have BUDS2 and MPI3 and it will only allow me to do up to 2017. I was told by the company I bought it from that I could also do above 2017 if I pay for an additional licence.

Once again, thanks so very much guys, I really appreciate your help

Cheers,

John

[Jetfixer]

BUDS and BUDS2 are very different software. I've found that using BUDS2 on older models (2008-2016) can cause the software to either not function at all, or act very strange. BUDS original won't work on newer (2017-current) machines. Here's a couple of screen shots of the two programs. The one on the left is BUDS and the other is BUDS2 for the same functions. BTW, BUDS is frozen in time and will not be updated. BUDS2 is constantly being updated. As of this writing, the current version was released 26 Dec 23.

buds gear page.jpg BUDS2 reset.jpg

[FNQJohn]

BUDS and BUDS2 are very different software. I've found that using BUDS2 on older models (2008-2016) can cause the software to either not function at all, or act very strange. BUDS original won't work on newer (2017-current) machines. Here's a couple of screen shots of the two programs. The one on the left is BUDS and the other is BUDS2 for the same functions. BTW, BUDS is frozen in time and will not be updated. BUDS2 is constantly being updated. As of this writing, the current version was released 26 Dec 23.

buds gear page.jpg BUDS2 reset.jpg

After seeing the difference between the two versions of software, I took a look at mine and I can now confirm that I actually do have B.U.D.S. E3.8.2.1 - (ALL_PRODUCTS Edition) (2016-09-23 13:56 r15468)

For some reason I was under the impression that I had BUDS2 and took a look at all my correspondence with BRPDiagnostics.com and there was never any mention of BUDS2. I'm putting it down to having a blonde moment.

Thanks for clearing this up Jetfixer. it's one less thing that will end up screwing with my head.

John

[FNQJohn]

After significant research, I have learnt a few new things.

1. I actually have BUDS not BUDS2. BUDS does up to and including 2016. BUDS2 does 2017 to current;

2. The 'Learnt' feature of BUDS with respect to the gears, is only for initial setup of the individual gear sensors and and subsequent replacement of them. Apparently each sensor gives out a slightly different voltage and the system learns what this is. Thus the reason for the RESET button, just incase you need to replace a sensor.

3. My assumption and the reason for the Post in the first place was way off. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have worded it differently. Come to think of it, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place;

4. You guys are a wealth of knowledge, thank you so very much.

John