Recall done. Not sure they put the right sprocket on.

[EdMat]

I know I will catch it from all sides here so I'll duck and cover after I hit Post.

Maybe tweak the engine alignment just a bit.

[Isopedella]

I am with Ron on this one, you're running your belt too much to the center of the rear sprocket; get it to within the 2mm that your book tells ya, and see how it's riding up front. I am thinking you'll be fine then!

I hear what you are saying. I manually set up up front, middle and rear a few mil. Rotating by hand. Re-check tension. Run it a bit on the blocks and make the fine adjustments with the adjusters. Get it correct and tighten the axle while while its running. Re cheek positions and tension. All A -OK.

Then a road test, say a 10 minute ride the fronts walked out again and the rear has moved out a bit.
Inspection reveals the belt has walked out in front and binding on the sprocket flange, the is belts getting hot and binding. The rear has also moved left and opened up a little.

Repeated attempts to remedy this have failed. Starts out ok but moves while riding.

Short reply is:
I'm not setting it up to run like that, it occurs after running for a bit.

[Isopedella]

I know I will catch it from all sides here so I'll duck and cover after I hit Post.

Maybe tweak the engine alignment just a bit.

Not a silly suggestion at all. Thanks.
Considering what's occurring, the mounts...
At least check they are secure in the first place.

Naturally I will have to school up on just where they are and correct torques.
I have not really paid them no mind so far so it's worth having a shufty.
I do have a shop manual I got printed out. 2 large A4 folders.

man 2 20220723_051800.jpg

Alignment..... Crikey...
Maybe after I'm sure the sprocket is mounted with the correct new washer distance.
I'm thinking they left the old one on.

It's been suggested the new one may be 5mm and not what I have at 4mm.
Not sure it makes that much difference, but I have stuff occurring so it's worth ticking it off.

.

[Mikey]

I hear what you are saying. I manually set up up front, middle and rear a few mil. Rotating by hand. Re-check tension. Run it a bit on the blocks and make the fine adjustments with the adjusters. Get it correct and tighten the axle while while its running. Re cheek positions and tension. All A -OK.

Then a road test, say a 10 minute ride the fronts walked out again and the rear has moved out a bit.
Inspection reveals the belt has walked out in front and binding on the sprocket flange, the is belts getting hot and binding. The rear has also moved left and opened up a little.

Repeated attempts to remedy this have failed. Starts out ok but moves while riding.

Short reply is:
I'm not setting it up to run like that, it occurs after running for a bit.

And what I am saying is when you do your adjustments you should be getting it to hang somewhere between the 1-2mm off the flange, yes it will drift back and forth, that's the nature of the beast but if it's within that setting, your front and back sprocket should be off the belt! By you trying to make it ride in the middle of your back sprocket the ONLY way you're going to make that work is go get a new shim washer made to go behind the new sprocket! Good luck any way you go! Just remember, that belt is going to walk no matter what, you're not going to stop that.

[Isopedella]

By you trying to make it ride in the middle of your back sprocket

Good grief! Not at all attempting that.

"set up up front, middle and rear a few mil."

[Mikey]

Good grief!! What? Thats what your showing us!

[Peteoz]

Good grief!! What? Thats what your showing us!

Mikey, Iso is saying that even if he sets up the rear at 1-2mm, the front still rides out and makes strong contact with the outer edge of the front sprocket, resulting in a rubber burning smell and a very hot belt. He is NOT trying to make the belt ride in the middle of the back sprocket.

Pete

[Mikey]

Mikey, Iso is saying that even if he sets up the rear at 1-2mm, the front still rides out and makes strong contact with the outer edge of the front sprocket, resulting in a rubber burning smell and a very hot belt. He is NOT trying to make the belt ride in the middle of the back sprocket.

Pete

Guess you got to see it in real life, because I've seen a couple pictures that looked spot on and should be working! Sorry for trying to make the horse drink! I am done!

[Peter Aawen]

Guess you got to see it in real life, because I've seen a couple pictures that looked spot on and should be working! Sorry for trying to make the horse drink! I am done!

That's the bit that's frustrating Iso so much Mikey!

AFAI can see, he's setting it up all correct on the rear, no more than 1-2 mm off the inside/RH edge... And those are the pics you've seen, Mikey - which show that he's got it set up right initially!!

Only then, when he actually rides it for 10 minutes or so to check it's all working properly, it's NOT, cos the belt walks out on both sprockets - out to the middle on the rear sprocket; and out so far on the front sprocket that it ends up pressing hard up against the LH flange, so hard that if the flange wasn't there, he's concerned that it'd walk itself right off the sprocket... But cos the flange IS there, the belt's pressing onto that flange SOOO HARD that the belt is heating up too hot to touch and smelling badly like it's burning, which in itself is not good!!

So that 1-2 mm you are seeing and thinking of as pics of his END result actually isn't the END result of what he's doing; that's where he STARTS, with the belt in the right place; and then when he rides, the belt walks out... just a little on the rear; but a whole lot and disturbingly so on the front! It's THAT FRONT SPROCKET, where the belt ends up 'pressing very hard up against the LH Flange, heating the belt to near burning and threatening to walk off the sprocket over the flange' that's the issue! Make sense now??

[BajaRon]

If the adjusters are not hard against the axle, especially the left one. The axle can shift forward regardless of how tight you get the axle nut. Not saying this is the case. But there is a reason that riding moves the belt position on the pulley.

[IGETAROUND]

Just a random thought, there are spacers on the axle, could the one on the left hand side of the sprocket not be seated properly or possibly assembled in reverse??? Again, just a thought. Sounds like you are doing all the right things with the adjusters, time to examine how the relationship of the spacers to the axle are.

Al in Kazoo

[66Roseracing66]

Well since we are all in the game to make a guess. Mine is when they installed the new sprocket, a part in the transmission broke and lets the shaft run out of true. Sure would help if you had the specs on the distance from the case to the sprocket. And if the sprocket shaft has excessive play. OK I am done.

[Isopedella]

Quick reply. Thanks for all the suggestions. Will review tomorrow morning.

[Isopedella]

Guess you got to see it in real life, because I've seen a couple pictures that looked spot on and should be working! Sorry for trying to make the horse drink! I am done!

That's the bit that's frustrating Iso so much Mikey!

AFAI can see, he's setting it up all correct on the rear, no more than 1-2 mm off the inside/RH edge... And those are the pics you've seen, Mikey - which show that he's got it set up right initially!!

Only then, when he actually rides it for 10 minutes or so to check it's all working properly, it's NOT, cos the belt walks out on both sprockets - out to the middle on the rear sprocket; and out so far on the front sprocket that it ends up pressing hard up against the LH flange, so hard that if the flange wasn't there, he's concerned that it'd walk itself right off the sprocket... But cos the flange IS there, the belt's pressing onto that flange SOOO HARD that the belt is heating up too hot to touch and smelling badly like it's burning, which in itself is not good!!

So that 1-2 mm you are seeing and thinking of as pics of his END result actually isn't the END result of what he's doing; that's where he STARTS, with the belt in the right place; and then when he rides, the belt walks out... just a little on the rear; but a whole lot and disturbingly so on the front! It's THAT FRONT SPROCKET, where the belt ends up 'pressing very hard up against the LH Flange, heating the belt to near burning and threatening to walk off the sprocket over the flange' that's the issue! Make sense now??

If the adjusters are not hard against the axle, especially the left one. The axle can shift forward regardless of how tight you get the axle nut. Not saying this is the case. But there is a reason that riding moves the belt position on the pulley.

Cheers will double check for the next attempt.

Just a random thought, there are spacers on the axle, could the one on the left hand side of the sprocket not be seated properly or possibly assembled in reverse??? Again, just a thought. Sounds like you are doing all the right things with the adjusters, time to examine how the relationship of the spacers to the axle are.

Al in Kazoo

Himmm. While I have had a visual at , yes the spacers are there, sitting nicely at the cush drive thingi and stuff........
Hell why not drop that wheel and have a close look at the spacers and stuff. Cheers.

Well since we are all in the game to make a guess. Mine is when they installed the new sprocket, a part in the transmission broke and lets the shaft run out of true. Sure would help if you had the specs on the distance from the case to the sprocket. And if the sprocket shaft has excessive play. OK I am done.

Yep the spec from the sprocket to the case would be a great thing to know, and the new washer size.
The shaft. I have given it a good tug and a push. Seems normal.

---------
Morning and thanks for the brainstorming.

I must admit it has been doing my head in.
Just walked away a few times and shut the shed door, read a book, go for a walk stuff, anything except that XXXIX sprocket.
-------------------
Pulled out my DR650 and gave it some attention. Full service, swapped out the front guard (less wishy washy in a strong wind) and had a fiddle with some lighting. Took it out for a run and managed to get home with all ribs intact this time. What a simple no nonsense bike that it is. I call it The Marine as it simply gets the job done.
------------------------

Anyhow.
I will go over everything thats been mentioned.
I do not really want to pack it out.
Cept maybe from 4mm to the 5mm thats been suggested as you start using spline contact and threads on the mounting bolt .
--------------------
Got some family stuff going on for a few days so it wont be today, probs next week.

Once again thanks for the thoughts.

Iso

[Wmoater]

Here is just a thought to try. I might be completely off base but find the extreme first. I would adjust the rear so far that the belt is now binding against the inside of the rear. Go past it and make that back sprocket and belt tight together and even binding. Make sure that belt is binding on the inside of the rear. Run it and see if the front moves to where it’s suppose to (centered). You can always move the rear out one turn by turn and test to pull the rear out but you have to get a starting point first. Where and when does it run true on the center of the front sprocket. Get that first. So If you have to get that belt binding really bad on the rear that will show if the front needs extra spaces or is it already angled. My fear is you taking the front sprocket off and on so many times that you are going to do more harm than good to that pulley. Also I know this has little do with it but did you clean that belt? I had to clean mine really good in dawn soap and all the squeaking went away. I put one small dab of BRP jet ski oil on the sprocket and that thing is as quiet as possible. I used to have a squealing pig after they installed the new sprocket. Where is the extreme to make the front run centered? Find that first to test your theories.

[EdMat]

And when you have done all you can do maybe tweak the engine alignment just a bit.

[Isopedella]

And when you have done all you can do maybe tweak the engine alignment just a bit.

I am soo tempted but know nothing about it.
Do you have any links or info on how to to share?

[EdMat]

I am soo tempted but know nothing about it.
Do you have any links or info on how to to share?

As typical with BRP when i go to the manual to look it up "Engine Alignment" it says to adjust the front link rod as illustrated then mentions tightening the bolts in the correct sequence, which it gives and that's all it says. Since the front link rod is mounted to the left front of the engine it would shift the engine slightly in its rubber mounts if it was shortened or lengthened.

What made me think of it was a discussion with a tech one time and he mentioned getting the link length wrong would make the belt ride the pulleys wrong.

[Isopedella]

Found this

The front link rod/connecting rod part #707001918 in the service manual shows the link should be set at 4.733 inches/120.1 mm in a diagram front center of both bolt holes, but when you jack up the Spyder and crawl under and do the measurement, the center of the link rod/solid body is 4.733 inches. Not what it shows in the service manual. I find it to be another error in the service manual along with the errors that come along with your new manual which includes a diagram showing that the belt should be riding in the middle of the front pulley.

Post #14
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...belt-alignment.

Can you put up the illustration and stuff you have?

I have some photos of it , I think. Have to pull some panels to get to it I guess. Down from the top?

c rod 1 51742.jpg c rod 230_151732.jpg

[Isopedella]

Think I may have found it.
Removing and Installing Engine Section 2 page 21 +22 in my folder.

Pre-adjust rod to 120.1mm...

c rod 351.jpg c rod 430_153900.jpg c rod 5 02.jpg

[Snoking1127]

I agree that if your belt is rubbing the front flange with any force at all, it needs to be corrected. You are wise to pursue a fix. The fact that your belt can't come off is comforting, short term. But not a good idea for any length of time.

Shimming is a solution. But I have a feeling that something is amiss with the install or they used the wrong spacer. Your micrometer shows 4mm width when I believe it should read 5mm. I would have to check that to be sure.

Your belt is running too far left on your rear pulley. It should be no more than 1mm~2mm from the inside flange. Basically, as close as you can get it without rubbing. I'm not saying that will resolve your front pulley issue. But it would be a step in the right direction.

The picture below is about as far out as you want your belt to be. A bit closer, in your case, would be a good idea.

I agree that the belt is riding way to far to the outside of the rear sprocket. I should be running very close the the inside flange on the rear sprocket. Align the rear correctly and see where the front is rumning.

[Peter Aawen]

Hey everyone, just for clarity's sake, the first pic in the quote below is Isopedella's AFTER pic of his REAR sprocket, showing what happens AFTER he's set his rear belt alignment correctly and then ridden the Spyder for a bit; while the last two pics show his FRONT sprocket AT THE SAME TIME as the previous pic, ie. after he's correctly aligned the belt on the rear sprocket and then ridden for a bit, and as a result of that riding, now the belt is pressed hard up against the Left/outside flange of the FRONT sprocket so hard that it's too hot to touch & smelling like burning rubber:

Well it stinks of rubber...... The belt is really hot when I put my hand on it. How do I know, why I can see it.



HOWZATT!

And the following quote is BajaRon's pic of the REAR sprocket showing everyone the MAXIMUM distance off the inside flange you ever want to see your belt before re-adjusting it to run closer to the inside/tire side flange:

I agree that if your belt is rubbing the front flange with any force at all, it needs to be corrected. You are wise to pursue a fix. The fact that your belt can't come off is comforting, short term. But not a good idea for any length of time.

.....

The picture below is about as far out as you want your belt to be. A bit closer, in your case, would be a good idea.

I hope all this helps make it clear... :

In summary, Iso HAS adjusted the belt on his REAR sprocket correctly more than once since the recall sprocket was installed by the dealer; BUT THEN, when he rides his Spyder with what WAS a 'correctly aligned on the rear sprocket' belt, the belt moves OUT on the rear sprocket as the same time as it also moves OUT on the FRONT sprocket; only up on that FRONT sprocket, it moves OUT to the extent that the belt gets very hot and he's concerned about the front socket damaging the belt, even if the outer flange should stop it coming off the sprocket...

And THAT's ultimately what he wants to fix and is asking about - how to stop the FRONT sprocket walking out and rubbing so hard on the outer flange that the belt becomes too hot to touch; and by the by, it'd be nice if he could also stop the belt walking out on the rear sprocket when he rides after aligning it correctly too!

Just Sayin'

[Isopedella]

Reminds me of a Beatles track. #9 ... #9 ....

So learning heaps here. Talk about brainstorming... Good info popping up. Great. Keep em coming.

Guess I loosen off all mounts if I have to adjust that bar to either 120.1 mm center of both bolt holes or the center of the link rod/solid body.
Which ever matches closest.

[PMK]

Reminds me of a Beatles track. #9 ... #9 ....

So learning heaps here. Talk about brainstorming... Good info popping up. Great. Keep em coming.

Guess I loosen off all mounts if I have to adjust that bar to either 120.1 mm center of both bolt holes or the center of the link rod/solid body.
Which ever matches closest.

Simply, Isopedella, did you fully resolve your belt tension and tracking?
Were you able to make needed adjustments and get the belt correct, or did you need to add spacers behind the front pulley?
You posted about even realigning the gearbox. Was realigning the gearbox how you resolved the issues?

[Isopedella]

Been busy with other stuff and its sitting in the shed with its ass in the air.
Patiently waiting for some more TLC to come its way.
Time out for me I guess as well. The GRRRRrrrr / Whisky Tango Foxtrot was beginning to bite.
I did get my packing washers back the next day trimmed out 1/2 a mil and they fit nice.
Haven't yet had a measure to check it the mounting is correct.

I will update when I get back to it, probably when im all out of GRRRrrr's I guess.