To Choose a Blind Spot Mirror or a Blind Spot Detector - or Both?

[BertRemington]

Choose a Blind Spot Mirror or a Blind Spot Detector or Both?

BLUF: a Blind Spot Mirror is a Seeing mechanism and a Blind Spot Detector is a Cueing mechanism.

In a response to a post about the Innovv ThirdEYE Blind Spot Detector, Mikey said:

Then you would be just as abstracted watching that thing as half of the people coming at you, keep your eyes on the road!

A Blind Spot Mirror is a mechanical device with convex reflective surface supplementing the Spyder's mirrors to provide additional visual range without significant head or eye movement. The device may be stick-on to the Spyder mirrors (eg, Autozone "spot" mirrors or TricLED Wide-Vu mirrors) or the device may be additional mirrors (eg, handlebar mirrors or SAENG mirrors). Your "road watch" visual field must be adjusted to view the mirror (in my specific case it takes about 0.25sec for my eyes to turn and focus on the mirror). In all cases, the device is something you SEE with.

A Blind Spot Detector is an electronic device based on radar supplementing your visual field with a rearward scan and analysis of the behavior of vehicles behind you which is then presented in your forward visual field. The scope of presentation is typically three lanes: left, current, and right. The presentation is preferably located within your "road watch" field of view with no head or eye movement required. The purpose of the presentation is generally to CUE your attention towards one-side or both-sides mirrors.

Two separate devices, both useful for maintaining "road watch" situational awareness.

Thanks Mikey, for serving up this opportunity to pontificate.

[2dogs]

My blind spot detector sits on top of my shoulders. It works together with my forward visual detector to make sure I'm keeping a safe distance from upcoming obstacles. It has the unique ability to keep me safe and out of danger if I pay attention and follow its recommendations.

[BertRemington]

And then there's my explanation

supplementing your visual field with a rearward scan and analysis of the behavior of vehicles behind you

[Flamewinger]

Relying on external devices makes for dangerous driving. I rely on my ability to make sure I know where I am, what’s in front and behind me all the times. It’s worked for over 40 years.

[BertRemington]

So you don't use the Spyder mirrors?

Relying on external devices makes for dangerous driving. I rely on my ability

And I never advocated reliance

Two separate devices, both useful for maintaining "road watch" situational awareness.

[Lew L]

.


. " First rule of Italian driving......................"

The rest of the quote can be found in the movie " Gumball Rally" And Burt I'm just

Lew L

[BertRemington]

Yeah Lew I am prickly.

I had two purposes for starting this thread:

(1) many people were conflating BSMs and BSDs so I wanted to help them understand the differences
(2) many people (like me) weren't aware of new motorcycle-focused BSDs (Innovv and KiWAV) so I wanted to increase that awareness

I tried to explain why someone might want to augment their Spyder with a BSM or BSD. For example, my TricLED WideVU BSMs greatly improved my situational awareness and provided the extra time needed to anticipate or respond to continuously evolving riding events. Other riders prefer stick-on "spot" BSMs but as I explained elsewhere the optical discontinuity between the two mirrors (Spyder and BSM) slows my ability to resolve and understand the two separate images. Abilities differ.

I also tried to explain how I had to allocate 0.25 seconds to shift my visual field to a mirror. My peripheral vision still provides some awareness of what's ahead but that's all until I shift my visual field back to it, another 0.25 seconds. In rapidly evolving event (eg, heavy traffic suddenly slowing on the freeway) having something shouting (cueing) "Hey look to your left!" would be a helpful time-saver. Again abilities differ.

One feature I like about the Innovv ThirdEYE is Rear Collision Warning with its <3 seconds Time-to-Collision calculation. Currently you can't distinguish between concurrent left and right Lane Change Assist indications so I'm going to suggest to Innovv that RCW takes precedence with blinking indicator lights.

Do I rely on my BSMs? Yes. They are my only mirrors to see with since they totally cover the Spyder mirrors.

Will I rely on my BSD? No. I'll continue my visual scan as before with the added benefit of an electronic gadget watching my 6 with alerts.

Abilities differ.

[Lew L]

.

I said I was joking Burt. That's what this symbol means.....

I have my well lighted with high mount brake light, all 6 LEDs in front, and sequential fender lights. I still drive like cagers can't see me. On top of that, most motorcycle accidents happen in front. Checked the Hurt Report and others.

Again, Burt, I was joking .

Lew L

[MRH]

I want to come in here and re-ask the question. My car warns me of people in my blind spots, and while I never depend on it to tell me it's safe to change lanes, it certainly helps me see that isn't safe quickly.

So, an electronic blind spot detector may be rather useful here, and if anybody knows of a good choice, I'd also like to hear about it.

[Usnretired]

If you just turn your head and look there will be no blind spots.

[BertRemington]

Lew -- my abysmal apologies. I certainly understood your Italian reference and enjoyed your humor.

'A Fighter Pilot's Guide to Surviving on the Roads' is available here:
https://www.drivingwithellis.co.uk/p...20More%20items and other locations. It explains how we see and don't see with the results in the Hurt Report. Thanks for the reminder.

Sequential fender lights -- would you explain please.

[BertRemington]

MRH -- there are two motorcycle-specific blind spot detectors that I'm aware of:

$298 Innovv Third Eye https://www.innovv.com/innovv-thirdeye-bsdsystem with BSD, LCA and RCW. Innovv designs and builds in-house in Guangdong.

$446 KiWAV BSD LCA Mirrors https://kiwavmotors.com/en/mirrors/b...r-bolts-detail with BSD and LCA. KiWAV outsources to Magazi-Moto in Taiwan.

Member Latrappe https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...47507-Latrappe should be reporting on his ThirdEYE next week.

[bikerbillone]

Don't forget that lane change signal....

[Lew L]

.

The fender lights are very bright when not signaling a turn and eye-catching when the turn indicator is engaged. So bright that I taped the top surface as it was bothering me. The fender lights are available on this site and a fair number of us have them.

Lew Lefcourt

[pegasus1300]

The term "situational awareness" was brought up during the discussion. As we age situational awareness decreases. At least I know mine has, that is part of the reason I am now on 3 wheels. I have already placed the Tricled Wideview mirrors on my Spyder, did it when they 1st came out, wouldn't be without them. When I first started riding, my more experienced friends taught me to keep my head and eyes constantly moving. Because of age, my head doesn't swivel as many degrees as it did when I was younger (I'll bet yours doesn't either)? My older eyes don't see as quick either. So I drive a little slower, try to keep a little more distance around me, and try to ride on less crowed roads and not at night. All compensations for my decreased abilities. I haven't stopped looking or swiveling, I'm just not as good at it, and I for one am going to save up and get an Innov Third Eye as a supplement to what I already do.

[BertRemington]

It won't be a surprise to most of you but I've shared the benefit of my ... whatever ... with Innovv without even receiving their ThirdEYE product. You can follow the thread at https://www.innovv.com/forum/advice-...ing-indicators

[Latrappe]

Hello From Australia

Once again, my 20cents worth... as you all know, I have a Spyder F3S and I don't ride like Martin the Vlogger (as Much as I wish I could). The issue I have is where the handlebars are with and without the handlebar riser; and due to my height, I cannot simply look and see the mirrors due to my hands being in the way, as I have to either lean forward &/or peer over them to see what is behind. Now this in itself can be concerning, as pegasus1300 points out; plus, I am not as young as I used to be; and having MS also kind of slows my reaction down somewhat.

Yes, I have looked at the Top Cuff from Lamonster with the thought of getting Handlebar mirrors but unfortunately, because of the MS, I have a handbrake kit on the right side, so there goes that idea.

So now getting the ThirdEye from INNOVV is appealing; this is not to stop me looking at the mirrors, it is to warn me if there is a crazed driver sneaking up on me, as in my line of thinking, everything that helps is a bonus.

To put it bluntly I do not want to be involved in a accident.

An Accident is an unsafe condition or an unsafe act.

That's my quote for the day.

[seaweed]

Misleading distance of a vehicle...

It appears when looking at the web site https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7RlbE_Yuqc&t=39s for the Wide-Vu mirrors, the distance away of the following vehicle is misleading. They look further away in the Wide-Vue mirror than in the conventional mirror.

[BertRemington]

They look further away in the Wide-Vue mirror than in the conventional mirror.

That is correct. It is an optical effect due to the convex reflecting surface. An accepted wider-view tradeoff for many including myself.

[Isopedella]

Hello From Australia

Once again, my 20cents worth... as you all know, I have a Spyder F3S and I don't ride like Martin the Vlogger (as Much as I wish I could). The issue I have is where the handlebars are with and without the handlebar riser; and due to my height, I cannot simply look and see the mirrors due to my hands being in the way, as I have to either lean forward &/or peer over them to see what is behind. Now this in itself can be concerning, as pegasus1300 points out; plus, I am not as young as I used to be; and having MS also kind of slows my reaction down somewhat.

Yes, I have looked at the Top Cuff from Lamonster with the thought of getting Handlebar mirrors but unfortunately, because of the MS, I have a handbrake kit on the right side, so there goes that idea.

So now getting the ThirdEye from INNOVV is appealing; this is not to stop me looking at the mirrors, it is to warn me if there is a crazed driver sneaking up on me, as in my line of thinking, everything that helps is a bonus.

To put it bluntly I do not want to be involved in a accident.

An Accident is an unsafe condition or an unsafe act.

That's my quote for the day.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...58#post1688658
Snap.
See my post #22 - may be worth considering.

[BertRemington]

I received my Innovv ThirdEYE today then engaged with them on adding the BSD/LCA/RCW disambiguation capabilities I wanted. Dialog got a bit testy with me concluding their device's firmware can be upgraded with those capabilities or else their website needs an improvement in accuracy.

It's a good device, better than KiWAV alternative, but not good enough for me. Still thinking through decision but will probably continue building my LiDAR-based alternative, now redesigned to incorporate RCW and better LCA and Paul will be getting a ThirdEYE at a discount.

[BertRemington]

I've got some good news on the radar-based blind spot detector marketplace: low cost.

But first a technical detail. The radar-based detectors operate in one of two frequency bands: 24GHz and 77-79GHz. The primary differences are detection distance: 30m/98ft for 24GHz and 50m/164ft for 77-79GHz, and price: 24GHz is cheaper that 77-79GHz.

Here's a typical 24GHz detector for $89 on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/404490017086/ That's from happylife8. Same thing from smartcity541 including the description. I really like the user interface. There are four warning lights, Yellow and Red on the left and Yellow and Red on the right. Yellow lights for adjacent lane LCA and and Red lights for current lane RCW. Read the description carefully -- not all 24GHz detectors have this user interface.

Here's a typical 77-79GHz detector for $152 on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/364493912095/ Same user interface and capabilities as the Innovv ThirdEYE for $100 cheaper. Unfortunately the user interface doesn't include the Red light feature of the 24GHz detectors. I will ask Innovv why the cheap 24GHz detectors have an RCW light and their expensive 77-79GHz detector doesn't.

!!!!!!!!!

Some 77-79GHz detectors have two indicating modes: Left and/or Right indicator Steady for LCA/BSD and both indicators Flashing for RCW. The descriptions take careful reading. The 77-79GHz eBay detector cited above has this capability.

The OEM website for these detectors is https://www.blindspotmonitor.com/pro...t-monitor-77g/

[Peacekeeper6]

Choose a Blind Spot Mirror or a Blind Spot Detector or Both?

BLUF: a Blind Spot Mirror is a Seeing mechanism and a Blind Spot Detector is a Cueing mechanism.

In a response to a post about the Innovv ThirdEYE Blind Spot Detector, Mikey said:


A Blind Spot Mirror is a mechanical device with convex reflective surface supplementing the Spyder's mirrors to provide additional visual range without significant head or eye movement. The device may be stick-on to the Spyder mirrors (eg, Autozone "spot" mirrors or TricLED Wide-Vu mirrors) or the device may be additional mirrors (eg, handlebar mirrors or SAENG mirrors). Your "road watch" visual field must be adjusted to view the mirror (in my specific case it takes about 0.25sec for my eyes to turn and focus on the mirror). In all cases, the device is something you SEE with.

A Blind Spot Detector is an electronic device based on radar supplementing your visual field with a rearward scan and analysis of the behavior of vehicles behind you which is then presented in your forward visual field. The scope of presentation is typically three lanes: left, current, and right. The presentation is preferably located within your "road watch" field of view with no head or eye movement required. The purpose of the presentation is generally to CUE your attention towards one-side or both-sides mirrors.

Two separate devices, both useful for maintaining "road watch" situational awareness.

Thanks Mikey, for serving up this opportunity to pontificate.

This is a bit of an overkill, no ??

I mean, what's so difficult about turning your head ?? The Spyder isn't THAT big, lol.

Just drive defensively and be aware of your position amongst the other vehicles ....

(But I suppose if you've had a cervical fusion and have limited range of motion, these devices would be a life-saver).

[Isopedella]

This is a bit of an overkill, no ??

I mean, what's so difficult about turning your head ?? The Spyder isn't THAT big, lol.

Just drive defensively and be aware of your position amongst the other vehicles ....

Yeah nah - not overkill really. No way..... Not saying you shouldn't do 'a head check' look.

But you should consider..... just for a moment even..... do you have rear view mirrors in your car or rely on turning your head?

Whatsa the difference no matter what you ride or drive?

[Peacekeeper6]

Yeah nah - not overkill really. No way..... Not saying you shouldn't do 'a head check' look.

But you should consider..... just for a moment even..... do you have rear view mirrors in your car or rely on turning your head?

Whatsa the difference no matter what you ride or drive?

The difference is the SIZE of the vehicle. You can easily cover the blind spot on a trike A LOT easier than if you were driving a car.