Will EBC Brake Pads & Rotors work better with hand lever & MS strength limitations?

[Latrappe]

Hello

Yes, I am aware the OEM brakes pads and rotors have been discussed at length before, at great length, but I am looking for a solution. I would love to ride as confident (CRAZY) as some riders do but that would be blowing wind up my butt if I said I did as well as the fun Police here would be all over me. The dilemma I face is due to MS, I rely on a hand brake to stop, and I am finding the Spyder is not stopping as quick as it did earlier 2019 – 2022 with the hand brake when I first bought the bike. I am aware that if I could stomp on the pedal with my size 13 boot it would stop on a dime (no one in their right mind would say that you can do that with your hand).

Now because I use my hand to stop which does not provide the same pressure as your hand, I think I have probably glazed the rotors and or the brake pads or both. My solution is to change the front and rear rotors to EBC as well as the pads, or would that be a waste of time and money? At the moment, I can purchase the pads here in Aussie, but I am having difficulty finding a supplier for the EBC rotors here in the land down under, and I hate wasting money. So, the question from me is, would EBC gear work better and longer for me, as I am aware of the general opinion?

Thanks

PS: if you guys see Latrappe in the States (Dutch beer), try the Quadruple, drink it like a wine 10% ABV

[BertRemington]

Begin with bleeding the brakes. Make at least two circuits (LF, RF, Rear) with at least 2 oz fluid going into catch tank for each caliper each circuit. Contact your handbrake vendor to obtain their bleeding instructions, again repeat at least twice. I like ATE200 fluid. Friendly to use and never failed me on the track. Wash up spills with water or alcohol.

I'm a bit puzzled with possible glazing diagnosis. Is there a possibility your roads have sand or other grit materials?

Be that as it may, let's try to rescue the front rotors. Often this can be done with abrasive on a glass surface. Search is your friend. The rotor machine screws are amply coated with yellow anti-seize. Heating with a small torch (not flashlight) or using an impact wrench will make them easier to remove.

And also rescue the front and rear pads. This can be done with abrasive paper on a flat board. Search is your friend. Make sure you keep track of which pad goes where. This isn't a good time for swapping things around.

After you have reassembled everything, pump the brakes before thinking about starting the engine. Pump with hand brake and foot brake, one at a time. You need to let the pads reposition themselves so they are just "flying" off the rotor surface and you need to let the master cylinders find their "rest" position.

After a quick trip of a km or maybe two it's time to properly seat the pads. I suggest you ask Baja Ron about this as the acceleration-braking sequencing and speeds are important.

If you want to skip the pad rescue step, consider EBC FA630V and FA631V as an alternative to FA630HH and FA631HH. I believe the Vs have better cold "bite" although they are dustier than HH. Again discuss this with Baja Ron as he has experience with both.

Best wishes.

PS I'm drinking Miller Lite these days and not much of that. San Diego has great microbrews but even the friendly big boys like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale have exceeded my grasp. The wheel turns...

[Peter Aawen]

Hi Latrappe, I spent some time looking into similar solutions to those you mention a while back when I was facing significant foot movement issues plus 'grip strength' reduction in both hands (courtesy of military service et al! ) but luckily for me, it wasn't MS & the surgery worked, so I never had to go down that path...

BUT, I did find out that with readily available parts and for a whole lot less $$ outlay than for the ISCI Kit, I could convert &/or augment the brake operation/activation to/with a hydraulically assisted lever that that got verrryyy close to applying the brakes just as hard as that foot stomp you mentioned, and that if Martin at spyderryders.net.au can't help you source the EBC pads and rotors (he could a while back, but without checking lately, I believe that he isn't quite so active in importing stuff anymore... Probably still worth the ask tho! ) then you can always talk directly with BajaRon about getting discs &/or the pads sent over!

There are a few threads here on the Forum discussing fitting up a hydraulically assisted lever, I'll see if I can dig them out for you. Some may not apply specifically (I'm pretty sure that one was for a Ryker) but I believe the concept and most of the parts used are exactly the same, so should be of help....
Gimme a bit while I search, and then watch this space: - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Edit: Here's one thread of how PistonBlown did his, & the resulting questions/discussion:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...rake&p=1232376

And the earlier thread that initially prompted him/he referred to:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...tive-to-Cables

And a quote from IdahoMountainSpyder with links to materials & more:

Here's a start to finding the material. https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...pass-handbrake

This should get you going down the road of the project! https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...rake&p=1232376

And a quote from Terraplane8Bob in another 'brake' thread:

I, too, have missed having a handbrake on my 2011 RS-S after over 50 years of two-wheeling. I've followed the posts about both commercial and home-brew handbrakes and after a lot of thought I assembled the attached rig.

I bought a master cylinder from Coleman Racing with an external threaded body for easy adjustment. The mounting plate is a heavy-duty aluminum corner brace sourced from a modular furniture manufacturer that I milled out one side of using a milling bit in a drill press. Being aluminum, it was simple to cut the mounting hole for the master cylinder using a standard hole saw, again using a drill press.

The actual brake lever/fluid reservoir was sourced on EBay from a Suzuki V-Strom which had dual front discs. The brake line was a common ATV item. I fabricated a "pusher" plate to bolt to the master cylinder rod with two Heim Joints on either side of the centrally mounted master cylinder rod. The two Heim Joints sandwiched the stock foot brake lever and were secured with a 14MM shoulder bolt. The Heim Joints accommodate any slight misalignment easily.

I chose to through-drill the existing panel where CanAm had placed two bosses apparently with the same thought in mind that I had. Tapping the two blind holes was not a task I wanted to tackle, plus the fact that through-bolting would be more secure. I bolted the completed assembly to the existing panel, bled the master cylinder and took it down the road for a trial.

It worked great the first time out! I noticed a slight flexing of the existing plate and may try to reinforce it in some way, but for the paltry sum of about $150 and a lot of head-scratching, I have a perfectly functioning solution to my problem. It simply uses the existing system without disturbing the plumbing and offers another way to operate the foot brake safely and effectively.

I noticed that I instinctively hold the trike at rest with the foot brake, but in many instances, I use the handbrake just like I used to do on my two-wheeler. I'm really glad I spent the time to do it!

And the Ryker thread - look for the posts by robval1987:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...89#post1499289


Hope this little lot helps you some!

[Latrappe]

Hello Bert and Peter thanks for the replies.

What I understand about glazing is that Glazed brakes are a common issue that can occur when a brake pad becomes worn down or contaminated, causing it to lose its ability to grip the brake rotor or rim effectively. The glazing process is when the brake pads have been heated to the point that the material within them has hardened and smoothed, which means they can no longer create friction with the rotors. Good example of this is to hop on or in a Bike that has been driven by a person that rides the brakes, you will find it slows down but not like it should. One of the fixes is to sand your brake pads. The reason I think mine are glazed is that I use my hand not my foot, and seeing that I have had the (not a Funnel Web, they kill you those things!) since 2019. The options I have are to change to OEM pads; or go the EBC route with new rotors and pads. I am curious to find out if going the EBC route will give me more stopping power (for the crazies) as it is hand only. Yes, I can crunch 75KGS with my right paw.

With the ISCI Hand Brake, it works by pushing on the brake pedal, so you have the master cylinder with the hand control, then the brake line to the slave cylinder has a piston that pushes on the bottom of the brake pedal. The advantage of that is that you are not adding to the Spyder Hydraulics and your warranty is not void.

[Mikey]

It sounds to me you have a good working system you're comfortable with using and it's working for you! The answer to your question will changing over to EBC parts make it stop better, I would say yes it will, stop on a dime and give you change, let's be real! Good luck, keep the rubber side down on that beast!!!

[JayBros]

My standard reply to how good are EPC pads and rotors are is "They'll stop you like the hand of God!" As a matter of fact, since you use a hand brake, if you switch to both pads and rotors, unless you have very strong wrists, if I were you I would ask a friend who I trusted implicitly to do the panic slowing recommended by Bajaron for you. You have to get the Spyder up to about 60 mph and slam on the brakes as hard as you can multiple times and it would best be done using the foot brake pedal. You should have both hands devoted exclusively to steering and throttle control. You can omit the panic slowing procedure but it will take much longer for the pads to bed in.

[BertRemington]

Latrappe -- thanks for the information on ISCI. I'll come back to that in a moment.

I started with a brake fluid change because you seem to be more sensitive than most about braking performance, either due to the MS or innate ability. With time brake fluid degrades. We're all familiar with the reduction in boiling point due to moisture intrusion. But there is also the increase in viscosity which affects the brake mechanism. I mentioned ATE200 a very fine DOT4. But there's also ATESL.6 which is their low viscosity DOT4 needed for modern VSSs (eg, my 2020 Ford Transit Connect). The Spyder's very capable 4-function VSS (Bosch, Brembo) might be on the margin for requiring low viscosity brake fluid.

Thinking through your ISCI mechanics and history of Spyder brake pads, I would check your rear brake pads next. There seems to be a slight rearward bias in the Spyder brake balance so those pads wear or perhaps stress first.

Finally I was responding to your

I hate wasting money

Certainly the EBC rotors and pads are an easy proven improvement. Please note Baja Ron says if you have EBC front rotors you won't need the EBC rear rotor.

[Latrappe]

Thanks for the comments I find it very informative.

I have a read of Bajaron's comments about the EBC rotors if you do the front no need for the rear so I will go EBC Pads and front rotors first and try that, unfortunately I think ill have to import the rotors as the man that did it here in Queensland has stopped doing it because freight costs unless I can find a distributer here in OZ, as it will be going in for a big service soon I will get it all done then.

[BajaRon]

If you can't source these. Let me know. I ship to Australia fairly often. If we can combine rotors with a larger order to a vendor, it may be cost effective.

[Peter Aawen]

If you can't source these. Let me know. I ship to Australia fairly often. If we can combine rotors with a larger order to a vendor, it may be cost effective.

And/Or maybe even collect a group order from all the Ozzies we can find who want them? I know there were a few looking at sourcing EBC Rotors for their Spyders a while back, but the import costs for individual orders were pretty steep & putting people off. It might take a little planning ahead & some organization on this end, but there's more of us here now, I'm pretty sure we could pull something together to make it more cost effective...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If you can't source these. Let me know. I ship to Australia fairly often. If we can combine rotors with a larger order to a vendor, it may be cost effective.

I think USPS ships worldwide in their mailing boxes ( the price depends on size & weight- where it's going in the world is not a factor )..... the large ones are limited to 35 lbs ????? .... just info ....Mike

[Latrappe]

Good afternoon Spyderlovers

I found a place here in Australia that deals with EBC Rotors however they are not getting any in till next year this is worse than the ARMY Q store (yes we have it, but no you can’t have it in case someone else wants it), I will keep you posted.


PS Beer O'clock some where in the world so I am having one mabye two

[Latrappe]

Hi guys, just a quick update I have had the brakes bled as well as the handbrake kit and I just put in EBC brake pads, yes, I am happy with how it stops at the moment, so it is all good and I thank you all for the words of advice.

[pegasus1300]

Latrappe, thank you for letting us know the final outcome of your brake odessey. I am sure there will be others who have physical problems like yours who will welcome the information.