Oil analysis @ 3 years & 9500 miles.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Oil is in great condition even after taking 3 years to get to BRP recommended interval of 9300 miles. I went ahead and changed it even though according to the lab report there was no need to.

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[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Oil is in great condition even after taking 3 years to get to BRP recommended interval of 9300 miles. I went ahead and changed it even though according to the lab report there was no need to.

Oil Analysis May 2023 Page 1.jpg


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Sorry but I couldn't identify the oil that you had tested ...... Mike

[Bangorbob]

It's Amsoil 10W40

[Mikey]

[Little Blue]

Amsoil has been a great oil for years. I hope they can continue this quality. I have been using it in my Spyder. As for 'Oil Samples' they are a very good tool for finding out about a potential problem early.
I have been doing 'Oil Samples' for 30 years.

Your Spyder and you can do as you wish. Expensive Toys need some extra care.

A little side note: A vendor on this Forum sells the Oil. BajaRon is the man.

[Gwolf]

That is very good, but that is only one machine and would not necessarily be true for all machines, not even the same brand and year. The conditions the machine normally operates in would have a lot to do with what condition the oil was in after a year.

Just a few examples would be, motorcycles operated all year. Starting up on cold mornings and shutting down 5 to 10 times a week, oil gets hot and on cooling down, maybe in high humidity, will take in more water vapor than a bike in storage all winter. Maybe the bike is ridden 10 or 15 miles to work, cools down in the work parking lot, then started back up and rode home. Cooling down after engine has warmed up would take in a lot more water vapor than just sitting inside a garage and being subjected to the normal ambient temperature changes. Short trips may not get the engine hot enough for a period of time long enough to evaporate the water vapor and vent it. Another example would be machines operated on dirt roads with dusty conditions during dry times. Other different conditions might also affect how long the oil will last.

[Mikey]

At the end of the day, like it's been said before, Do what works for you. But I am glad to see the results of how well Amsoil works, thank you Idaho for sharing that test! Let the beat down commence.

[chipveres]

I think Mr. Idaho did just right. Watch the oil as it goes through its life, come to the manufacturer's change interval, change it anyway.

[Bangorbob]

I believe he said it was 3 yrs before he changed the oil. Yes it was before the recommended mileage. Thanks for posting.

[2dogs]

Blows a hole in some of the oil theories, doesn't it? That being said, gas and oil are the least expensive but most important things you can put in your ride. So feed it the best you can buy and it will treat you right. Tires are also in this category as well.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I believe my riding patterns are within the realm of 80% of owners, i.e., 43,000 miles in 8 years, no great amount of hard high speed/high rpm or slow speed/low rpm riding, with most highway and street miles between 50 and 70 mph. Subsequently, I believe the wear and tear on my engine is similar to most Spyder owners.

Hence, all I'm saying is, based on lab results the BRP recommended oil change interval, both time and miles, can be legitimately questioned.

As always, the acceptable effect on one's pocketbook is a personal matter.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

One comment that has been made many times in the forum is moisture accumulation, particularly over the winter, needs to be prevented. The 5 separate analyses for 5 separate mileage spans and over 5 winter storage times, shows no accumulation of moisture taking place.

[BajaRon]

One comment that has been made many times in the forum is moisture accumulation, particularly over the winter, needs to be prevented. The 5 separate analyses for 5 separate mileage spans and over 5 winter storage times, shows no accumulation of moisture taking place.

The moisture accumulation is not huge, even in a high humidity environment like I have here in Tennessee. It's not like you're going to get a cup of water sitting at the bottom of your sump. It's more like a light dew which forms on engine surfaces above the oil line. However, even a small amount getting through the oil film to vulnerable iron parts can be significant, over time.

If you do your oil sample correctly (hot oil, mid-drain). Chances are that any moisture will have vaporized before the oil sample is taken.

Where the effects of water show up is in 2 places. As the bike sits, moisture can and does accumulate. If the oil does not adequately protect ferrous metal parts, rust will form. When you start the engine, this rust will be removed and washed into the oil. It is much too fine for the filter to remove and shows up as increased iron content in the sample.

There is a 2nd indication that your oil is not providing adequate protection from the inevitable moisture which accumulates in an engine/transmission with long periods between being brought to operating temperature (the oil, not coolant). Because moisture reacts with gasoline impurities in the oil to form a corrosive mixture which will attack other, non ferrous metals like Aluminum and Copper. These will show up in an analysis as well.

Too many falsely think that bringing the coolant to operating temperature with a high idle over the winter is a good idea. This practice has many downsides, including the possibility of making oil issues worse. It does have the single advantage of sending lubrication to parts that may have lost their protective coating. This benefit depends on the quality of the oil. Lesser oils tend to drain off and leave parts unprotected.

If you can't get out and ride far enough to get the oil to operating temperature. It is best to let your bike sit. Letting it run at idle for 15-20 minutes does more harm than good. The oil will not change temperature and remains cold. You can't burn off the moisture this way.

The OP's experience is similar to mine. Though my Spyder sat without running for 4.5 years. My oil sample came back with flying colors, just as his did. Not a comprehensive spread. Just another data point to throw into the mix.

[Mikey]

The moisture accumulation is not huge, even in a high humidity environment like I have here in Tennessee. It's not like you're going to get a cup of water sitting at the bottom of your sump. It's more like a light dew which forms on engine surfaces above the oil line. However, even a small amount getting through the oil film to vulnerable iron parts can be significant, over time.

If you do your oil sample correctly (hot oil, mid-drain). Chances are that any moisture will have vaporized before the oil sample is taken.

Where the effects of water show up is in 2 places. As the bike sits, moisture can and does accumulate. If the oil does not adequately protect ferrous metal parts, rust will form. When you start the engine, this rust will be removed and washed into the oil. It is much too fine for the filter to remove and shows up as increased iron content in the sample.

There is a 2nd indication that your oil is not providing adequate protection from the inevitable moisture which accumulates in an engine/transmission with long periods between being brought to operating temperature (the oil, not coolant). Because moisture reacts with gasoline impurities in the oil to form a corrosive mixture which will attack other, non ferrous metals like Aluminum and Copper. These will show up in an analysis as well.

Too many falsely think that bringing the coolant to operating temperature with a high idle over the winter is a good idea. This practice has many downsides, including the possibility of making oil issues worse. It does have the single advanga of sending lubrication to parts that may have lost their protective coating. This benefit depends on the quality of the oil. Lesser oils tend to drain off and leave parts unprotected.

If you can't get out and ride far enough to get the oil to operating temperature. It is best to let your bike sit. Letting it run at idle for 15-20 minutes does more harm than good. The oil will not change temperature and remains cold. You can't burn off the moisture this way.

The OP's experience is similar to mine. Though my Spyder sat without running for 4.5 years. My oil sample came back with flying colors, just as his did. Not a comprehensive spread. Just another data point to throw into the mix.

I got to ask the question that everyone wants to hear. What oil was you running at that time?

[2dogs]

Hence, all I'm saying is, based on lab results the BRP recommended oil change interval, both time and miles, can be legitimately questioned.

Absolutely, and kind of like the crapendas they insist we mount and run. Some narrow minded dealers follow that recommendation to the T. Avoid those dealers because that's not all they'll do for (to) you.

[BajaRon]

I got to ask the question that everyone wants to hear. What oil was you running at that time?

Sorry, Amsoil. Same as the OP.

[Mikey]

Sorry, Amsoil. Same as the OP.

Trust me you will not get a fight from me, everything in the door yard has it in it, and I have a lot of tales with it, VERY happy with the product.

[BajaRon]

I believe he said it was 3 yrs before he changed the oil. Yes it was before the recommended mileage. Thanks for posting.

A little confused on your statement. Are you speaking of your oil change, or the OP's? His was at 9,500 miles. 200 miles beyond the manufacturer's recommended service interval of 9,300 miles.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Ron, what is/are the pathways and sources for moisture to enter the engine? The reason I ask is if the source is air then moisture won't enter the engine unless there is a pathway and the engine is in an environment where it's temperature fluctuates in sync with the ambient temperature. What happens is when a (supposedly) closed container sits outdoors and warms up in the day the air inside is partially expelled due to expansion. Then at night when it cools down and the air inside shrinks more ambient air is drawn in. The cooler air drawn in carries more moisture than the warmer air that is expelled, resulting in a gradual build up of moisture inside. But this scenario is predicated on the closed space having some venting path to ambient. We had this problem with valves and such being stored outside in Louisiana when I worked for the Dept of Energy. It was nigh impossible to wrap them tightly enough to prevent 'breathing', and so they would rust internally.

As far as the Rotax engine is concerned I think there are two reasons why moisture is not drawn in. First, the engine is close to airtight so air isn't going to be pumped in and out. Second, most Spyders, I dare say, are stored in the winter in a fairly constant temperature environment. What fluctuation there is in temperature is either so little, or of such short cycles, the engine is quite unlikely to fluctuate significantly in temperature. That's why I think the issue of moisture buildup inside the engine is an overblown concern.

[Cobwebs]

I always thought the additives in an oil blend were there to prevent any bare metal exposure.A barrier if you like to any contaminents with the filter doing the chunks.

[Gwolf]

I always thought the additives in an oil blend were there to prevent any bare metal exposure.A barrier if you like to any contaminents with the filter doing the chunks.

Yes, that is what they do............ and they lubricate so good that the clutch will slip if you use them in a wet clutch engine.

[Bangorbob]

A little confused on your statement. Are you speaking of your oil change, or the OP's? His was at 9,500 miles. 200 miles beyond the manufacturer's recommended service interval of 9,300 miles.

Ron, Here is his own words: Oil is in great condition even after taking 3 years to get to BRP recommended interval of 9300 miles.

Maybe I misunderstood what he wrote. I thought you were supposed to change at 9300 or annually. Guess I better read my manual.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Ron, Here is his own words: Oil is in great condition even after taking 3 years to get to BRP recommended interval of 9300 miles.

Maybe I misunderstood what he wrote. I thought you were supposed to change at 9300 or annually. Guess I better read my manual.

I got to it, and passed it by 200 miles!

[Gwolf]

If the Rotax engine was a completely closed system, so that no air could get in, and no air could get out, then it would not run. Air has to get in, and more importantly, exhaust has to get out. I am pretty sure the engine does not always stop at a position where all valves are closed, if that is even possible. Valve cover vent and dipstick are not air tight. If the engine was completely air tight, it would be weeping oil at every gasket on it. The pistons displace air on every revolution, and that air inside the crankcase must have some place to go.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I should have been more clear. I meant the crankcase is pretty much airtight. As far as air displacement by the pistons the air from one piston coming down will be pulled by another piston moving up. Without going through all the calculations I think the only case where air volume in the crankcase changes would be in a single cylinder engine.