Do I need to mount a baffle on my RLS Cat Delete?

[kongdoly]

I'm riding a 2022 RTL. Currently, genuine exhaust and genuine CAT are removed, and Akrapovic products and RLS CAT deletion are installed.

I usually use high rpm and drive often.
When shifting from 1st to 2nd gear in the city, 4000-5000RPM is used, and on a straight road, 6000-7000RPM is used in 1st gear.

When I use high RPM in the 1st and 2nd gears, the sound is very nice.

Is there a difference in fuel efficiency, back pressure, and high output when the baffle is removed?

If I have a tendency to ride, please recommend whether it is better to install a baffle or not.

I tend to go on long-distance tours a lot, and I'm the type of person who wants to use a high RPM.

KakaoTalk_20230801_134626444.jpg

[Peter Aawen]

Running a baffle or not really all depends on how much noise you can handle, and for how long you want to put up with it on a long trip!!

You really aren't going to gain too much in the way of performance improvement &/or change your fuel economy regardless of whatever you do with the cat, the exhaust &/or running a baffle or not, because the engine's operation and performance, fuel economy, etc is really all controlled by the basic programming in the Engine Control Unit/computer, or ECU, and if you haven't changed any of that thru getting it upgraded/re-tuned by a skilled tuner, then the only minor changes you might get are likely to be some very slightly better 'free-flowing' mid-range revs, often at the cost of a touch of low down torque; and maybe bit more of a small gain due to the loss of weight because of the lighter A/mkt gear - and of course, there's that fairly big change in the quality and volume of the noise output, which can be modified a bit more by adding or removing a baffle or two!.

So if you're seeking performance gains or better fuel economy without changing the noise too much, put all the OEM gear back on; try to sell all the A/mkt stuff; and top wasting your money on doing things that CANNOT make any real/significant improvements to performance or fuel economy!!

To really change anything other than the noise, you'll need to get an ECU Upgrade done; but if it's the NOISE that you want to change, then sure, go ahead and play with adding or taking out baffles until you get something you like - just don't kid yourself that you're really doing ANYTHING much for performance or fuel economy, cos without upgrading the ECU, it just ain't so - you're simply fiddling around the edges a tiny bit!

[kongdoly]

Running a baffle or not really all depends on how much noise you can handle, and for how long you want to put up with it on a long trip!!

You really aren't going to gain too much in the way of performance improvement &/or change your fuel economy regardless of whatever you do with the cat, the exhaust &/or running a baffle or not, because the engine's operation and performance, fuel economy, etc is really all controlled by the basic programming in the Engine Control Unit/computer, or ECU, and if you haven't changed any of that thru getting it upgraded/re-tuned by a skilled tuner, then the only minor changes you might get are likely to be some very slightly better 'free-flowing' mid-range revs, often at the cost of a touch of low down torque; and maybe bit more of a small gain due to the loss of weight because of the lighter A/mkt gear - and of course, there's that fairly big change in the quality and volume of the noise output, which can be modified a bit more by adding or removing a baffle or two!.

So if you're seeking performance gains or better fuel economy without changing the noise too much, put all the OEM gear back on; try to sell all the A/mkt stuff; and top wasting your money on doing things that CANNOT make any real/significant improvements to performance or fuel economy!!

To really change anything other than the noise, you'll need to get an ECU Upgrade done; but if it's the NOISE that you want to change, then sure, go ahead and play with adding or taking out baffles until you get something you like - just don't kid yourself that you're really doing ANYTHING much for performance or fuel economy, cos without upgrading the ECU, it just ain't so - you're simply fiddling around the edges a tiny bit!

It's a pity that there is no big difference.. Will the back pressure problem be okay if the baffle is removed? I wonder if the baffle is accumulating more heat..

[Peter Aawen]

It's a pity that there is no big difference.. Will the back pressure problem be okay if the baffle is removed? I wonder if the baffle is accumulating more heat..

It will be accumulating more heat, but it'll only be a tiny amount compared to the amount of heat the catalytic converter that you've taken off generated!! Those cat converters don't even START to work until they get up to about 600°C, and IIRC, the optimum operating temp of the ceramic 'catalyst impregnated honeycomb' that does all the work is something above 1000°C!! So you can appreciate and take advantage of the MASSIVE heat reduction the cat eliminator will be giving you with or without the baffle and just revel in it whichever way you prefer!

As for the lack of backpressure being an issue, the myth that you need much backpressure at all is just that, a pervasive myth!! And you'll be getting more than enough backpressure from just the pipe as it is, so you really don't need the baffle for that at all!!

Cheers!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Running a baffle or not really all depends on how much noise you can handle, and for how long you want to put up with it on a long trip!!

You really aren't going to gain too much in the way of performance improvement &/or change your fuel economy regardless of whatever you do with the cat, the exhaust &/or running a baffle or not, because the engine's operation and performance, fuel economy, etc is really all controlled by the basic programming in the Engine Control Unit/computer, or ECU, and if you haven't changed any of that thru getting it upgraded/re-tuned by a skilled tuner, then the only minor changes you might get are likely to be some very slightly better 'free-flowing' mid-range revs, often at the cost of a touch of low down torque; and maybe bit more of a small gain due to the loss of weight because of the lighter A/mkt gear - and of course, there's that fairly big change in the quality and volume of the noise output, which can be modified a bit more by adding or removing a baffle or two!.

So if you're seeking performance gains or better fuel economy without changing the noise too much, put all the OEM gear back on; try to sell all the A/mkt stuff; and top wasting your money on doing things that CANNOT make any real/significant improvements to performance or fuel economy!!

To really change anything other than the noise, you'll need to get an ECU Upgrade done; but if it's the NOISE that you want to change, then sure, go ahead and play with adding or taking out baffles until you get something you like - just don't kid yourself that you're really doing ANYTHING much for performance or fuel economy, cos without upgrading the ECU, it just ain't so - you're simply fiddling around the edges a tiny bit!

Peter I think you are .... No matter how many times WE tell folks the Computer NEEDS to be adjusted to achieve actual Performance gains, it must be repeated periodically ..... I read 95% of all the posts ( including follow-ups ) almost every day.... this includes posts that don't effect me ( immed. or in the future ) ... This is probably not the norm on the forum ....I guess I just like to know stuff ..... JMHO .... Mike

[2dogs]

Peter I think you are .... No matter how many times WE tell folks the Computer NEEDS to be adjusted to achieve actual Performance gains, it must be repeated periodically ..... I read 95% of all the posts ( including follow-ups ) almost every day.... this includes posts that don't effect me ( immed. or in the future ) ... This is probably not the norm on the forum ....I guess I just like to know stuff ..... JMHO .... Mike

[Mikey]

x3

[Jetfixer]

I have the identical exhaust setup as you on my 2020RTL. No baffle. I question your desire to rev so high. I normally shift in the 3000 range unless I'm really trying to air it out! I have the Stage 2 ECU mod, and the RT really comes alive above 4000. However, the 1330 is a high torque engine. Somewhere here on Spyderlovers you can find the torque chart that shows that about 95% of the rated torque comes on about 2500 rpm. If fuel economy is important to you, I'd suggest shifting at a lower rpm. I've tracked my fuel economy since new and average over 38mpg.

[CloverHillCrawler]

I knew it didn't make a difference as far as a performance gain but I didn't realize there was that much torque loss on the low end and I don't want to give that up.

It is making me think twice about doing my own cat delete. I just wanted to get rid of the heat and weight but not at a cost of low end torque. I guess I will have to wait until I can get the ecu reprogrammed.

[kongdoly]

It will be accumulating more heat, but it'll only be a tiny amount compared to the amount of heat the catalytic converter that you've taken off generated!! Those cat converters don't even START to work until they get up to about 600°C, and IIRC, the optimum operating temp of the ceramic 'catalyst impregnated honeycomb' that does all the work is something above 1000°C!! So you can appreciate and take advantage of the MASSIVE heat reduction the cat eliminator will be giving you with or without the baffle and just revel in it whichever way you prefer!

As for the lack of backpressure being an issue, the myth that you need much backpressure at all is just that, a pervasive myth!! And you'll be getting more than enough backpressure from just the pipe as it is, so you really don't need the baffle for that at all!!

Cheers!

thank you. It's always good to see good information!!!!!!!!

[Peter Aawen]

I knew it didn't make a difference as far as a performance gain but I didn't realize there was that much torque loss on the low end and I don't want to give that up.

It is making me think twice about doing my own cat delete. I just wanted to get rid of the heat and weight but not at a cost of low end torque. I guess I will have to wait until I can get the ecu reprogrammed.

It really isn't all that much torque loss - in fact, without some serious effort put into measuring it, I really doubt that most ryders would even realise there was any torque loss at all! But the better/fuller sound (without much volume increase unless you also modify/change out the muffler for something more open ); the weight savings; the significant heat loss; and the free-er revving mid-range is all pretty handy stuff and the combined improvement IMHO faaaarr outweighs the minor torque loss and is quite a noticeable improvement in rideability!

So I'd suggest that doing a cat delete, especially with something like those available thru Lamonster or RLS is still a very worthwhile upgrade - and unless you're fighting for the last iota of 'initial torque delivery' like those riders who are professionally drag racing for a living, where every fraction of extra torque from the very first twist of the throttle can make a real difference in how much money they're going to make this year, then I reckon a cat delete with a quality unit like RLS or Lamonster's really is going to be an UPGRADE that you'd appreciate! And even if you don't want to go as far as an ECU Upgrade, you can always fit a Power Commander or a Pedal Box too!

So Go On; JUST DO IT!! . I really doubt you'll ever regret it... and once the cat delete is done, even tho it might not make much difference in power &/or outright performance without also doing an ECU Upgrade & maybe some other mods too; then you can play with modding or swapping out the muffler &/or adding/subtracting baffles to your hearts content to get a 'sound' that really works for you! Sure, it's not ever gonna sound like Harley or an Indian, or really anything else either but without the inherent strangulation & massive heat generation from the OEM Cat Converter, you can get a whole lot better/nicer sound from those 1330 motors than the OEM 'run-away & savagely over-revved/abused sewing machine' noise that they leave the factory with built in!

Just Sayin'

[CloverHillCrawler]

Thanks, but I'm only worried about the heat and weight and when I mentioned it to the wife I got the warning about it sounding too loud in the neighborhood so I won't be screwing with baffles or changing the exhaust once I do the delete. It is whatever it is.

[Gwolf]

Compared to the honey comb design of the cat, a couple of baffles will not be anywhere near as restrictive. The baffles you add in a modified exhaust system are just single drilled plates or single drilled pipe, not the circuitous exhaust path of the super-quite mufflers, nor the honey comb small holes of a cat. Adding baffles can change the exhaust from the annoying blast of straight pipes, to a low rumble sound, without the annoying notes, when operating at the lower RPMs. It would be like the difference in a stock car or dragster exhaust sound and the low rumble of a good set of glass pack mufflers.

[Davgill2002]

I have a 2023 S2S with the RLS (pre-muffler) & Akrapovic exhaust. I also have a Pedal Commander installed, set at Sport -3. I have found much better low end and more acceptable sound level by installing RLS's SS baffle.. The noise reduction and low improvement was significant enough that I have actually ordered a 2nd RLS SS baffle. Presently, I am sending my ECU off to Wicked-Performance for their Monster stage 1 flash. I had the stage 1 flash done to my 2014 RTL and absolutely loved the increased torque and power. My 2014 RTL setup included a Pedal Commander, LaMonster cat delete, and a Two Brothers exhaust with an aftermarket 6" baffle to regain low end & lower noise. That set up produced about a 6 bike length improvement over stock (0-80 mph) when running against my brother,s stock can am RTL, as a before and after comparison. My 2014 RTL set up also consistently gained mpg with 38-42 common when using cruise control at 60-65 mph speeds and two up and loaded with luggage. My current 2023 S2S averages in the low 30's and I am hoping for a mpg improvement into the high 30's as well as a six bike gain in acceleration. Hope this helps.

[2dogs]

....My 2014 RTL set up also consistently gained mpg with 38-42 common when using cruise control at 60-65 mph speeds and two up and loaded with luggage....

You will seldom see the above type of comment on this forum. But, that's what I get with my '14 RT with Stage II along with a cat delete and my muffler modification - 42 at 60 mph and 38 at 65. Every 1k RPM over 60 mph will cost me 1 mpg.

[Davgill2002]

I am running the identical setup on my 2023 S2S. Originally, I left the baffle out. For me that setup was way too loud and had noticeably less low end. I have ordered and am going to install a second RLS SS baffle to get more low end back and achieve a little less noise (drone) at highway cruising speeds. Everyone has their own preferences.