Can Am - Great Ideas vs. Poor Execution. What are your thoughts?

[chipveres]

Does anyone else think that Can Am has the smartest ideas in motorcycling? And then wrecks them with poor execution and poorer dealers?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

.... I don't know how they have stayed in business this long .... JMHO .... Mike

[Navydad]

When I was working in the heavy truck building industry I saw a lot of great ideas over the years and most of them never were implemented or were implemented poorly. Why? Money. EVERYTHING you buy is built to a price point, especially a vehicle. Can Am is perfectly capable of building a Spyder with the best tires, suspension, sound system, etc, etc. Are you capable of paying twice the price for one? Engineers have some great ideas, but the bean counters get the last word.

[SLICE]

As Peter Aawen stated in another post the safety police (BRP lawyers ) have these machines so coddled it's pathetic to a true biker like myself, If the Can Am side by sides and off road machines can have 200 + HP why can't we.

Oh I know, because we all can ride and those that never have would kill themselves before they even got the machine home.

[chipveres]

When I was working in the heavy truck building industry I saw a lot of great ideas over the years and most of them never were implemented or were implemented poorly. Why? Money. EVERYTHING you buy is built to a price point, especially a vehicle. Can Am is perfectly capable of building a Spyder with the best tires, suspension, sound system, etc, etc. Are you capable of paying twice the price for one? Engineers have some great ideas, but the bean counters get the last word.

Navydad, I agree in every respect. Because of my own background, I can see where the BRP engineers cut corners to hold down the price. And it was necessary because if they couldn't undersell Brand H they wouldn't sell at all. Despite having a superior product. None of this keeps me from getting steamed up when I have to take all the plastic off the left side of the cycle bec. the mechanic couldn't be bothered to put Loctite on the ACS bolt on the swingarm.

[chipveres]

As Peter Aawen stated in another post the safety police (BRP lawyers ) have these machines so coddled it's pathetic to a true biker like myself, If the Can Am side by sides and off road machines can have 200 + HP why can't we.

Oh I know, because we all can ride and those that never have would kill themselves before they even got the machine home.

I think that an ECU reflash will restore some of the missing pep. At the expense of always requiring premium fuel. Besides, my wife and I are a couple of real Heck's Angels who find 115 HP more than adequate.

[Gwolf]

From somebody that rode a homebuilt Harley Sportster trike for about 25 years, because nobody was mass producing a decent trike, I find the Spyders to be fairly well designed, have adequate power, and excellent handling for a a trike. They are a bit over complicated, but so is everything else that has to comply with government regulations these days. If some one (dealer or aftermarket) will just keep the repair parts available for a number of years, I can live with the dealership problems. Mine never been back since I picked it up, in 2019.

Don't see anything better becoming available any time soon either.

[2dogs]

Always felt the BRP spyder dealer network would ultimately be their undoing. One other observation. In all my travels on my spyder or in my car, I may only see another spyder once a month, if that. However, I see two wheelers of all kinds multiple times a day, every day. They are everywhere. The bottom line, spyders are way overpriced and BRP knows it. There are a ton of new high power/quality two wheelers out there on the market for $10k and less. So unless you are an aging geezer or just can't ride a bicycle why would you buy a spyder? I certainly wouldn't, but then, I'm one of those aging geezers with bad knees, hips, shoulders, and so on. LOL

[oldguyinTX]

Seeing as how BRP has the reverse trike market cornered, they really have no incentive to build Spyders to what Spyders can and truly would be if there were serious competition, say Honda for example. If/when they ever build a reverse trike based on the Gold Wing engine and architecture, BRP will be in serious trouble. I would most likely buy one, if for no other reason than their extensive parts and dealer network. but also the reputation that Honda has for their products being "Bulletproof". I for one would take a really hard look at one before I bought another Spyder. And yes, the BRP dealer network by and large is pretty sucky and geographically thin, there are some pretty good ones out there. When I lived in Connecticut, there were three dealers within a short ride from where I lived. The one I bought my 2013 RTL from was a small family business, the owner of which was a BRP Master Tech. He knew Spyders inside and out, you could get an appointment in a reasonable amount of time, and he didn't keep your bikes for week at a time. They closed their doors in 2016. Another was substandard, to say the least, and they really only wanted to sell Spyders, not service them. The third one was so bad that BRP took Spyders, Sea-Doos, and Ski-Doos away from them, although they continue to sell off roads. Regardless of the fact that Spyders are finicky, can be difficult to work on, hard to get serviced, and are stupid expensive, we keep buying them since they are the only game in town. So for now, BRP pretty much has us in a box that for now we can't get out of.

[Columbia]

Mostly great ideas. Definitely sketchy implementation. Reasons provided above explain it well. I'm not going to go into economic theory(s).

[UtahPete]

Either you believe the free market system produces the best product at the lowest price, or you don't. Engineers, marketers, accountants and lawyers are just playing their respective roles in that system. No villains to see here folks.

[Raven]

I said it before and I will say it again.
Don't blame BRP, blame the government.
Anyone remember 427 tri carb, four speed Corvettes , dual four barrel 426 hemi's.
Then the feds gat involved and you got a 180 hp 350 Corvette and no hemi's.
If someone wants a 200hp Ryker, build it.
Find a wrecked Maverick and go from there.

[UtahPete]

I said it before and I will say it again.
Don't blame BRP, blame the government.
Anyone remember 427 tri carb, four speed Corvettes , dual four barrel 426 hemi's.
Then the feds gat involved and you got a 180 hp 350 Corvette and no hemi's.
If someone wants a 200hp Ryker, build it.
Find a wrecked Maverick and go from there.

What law or regulation caused that to happen?

[UtahPete]

... I can see where the BRP engineers cut corners to hold down the price.

Name 2 instances of "engineers cutting corners to hold down the price".

I don't think engineers do that. I think they design the optimum solution and then accounting costs that out, and Marketing figures out what the final machine will sell for. If the C-suite demands a greater gross profit margin, then it's back to engineering to figure out where they can use an acceptable alternative solution without compromising safety, performance or marketability.

I'd say they did a pretty good job of it. Which is why we 'love' our Spyders, right?

The dealer service after the sale is the problem, not incompetent dastardly engineers.

[Cobwebs]

Either you believe the free market system produces the best product at the lowest price, or you don't. Engineers, marketers, accountants and lawyers are just playing their respective roles in that system. No villains to see here folks.

Thats the theory but if patents prevent competition to Spyders (don't know if they do haven't checked but if I call myself Elvis Presley and go on a singing tour my first gig audience will probably be 5,000 lawyers who lick their lips as they gyrate their hips(see, I've already got a song title)) we'll never know.

[Peter Aawen]

Name 2.

1. The ACS, where even just a simple thing like using a 'proper' air-line fitting instead of the cheapie 'press to fit' connectors would (& does!) remove about 1/2 of the problems encountered, but there's lot more there; and

2. BRP Connect &/or Go, where it wouldn't have taken much in the way of serious testing to identify and remove most of the issues that the vast majority of users encounter with this product that COULD have been such a great asset...

But there's easily a bunch more that could be considered, for instance there's the Kenda tires, where a little quality control & accepting juuust a little less in the way of excessive profit margin may well have given us a tire that WASN'T so widely recognized across the tire industry as little more than a joke at the user's expense; and there's the springs & shocks; and the cheap-arsed ball joints; and the .... I'm gonna stop now, cos I'm told it's not a good subject to encourage here!

[ARtraveler]

Everyone seems to be right on this one. My opinions have been spoken above.

[UtahPete]

The only ones who can afford to accept no compromises in a machine, it seems, is the US military, and that comes at a horrendous monetary cost. Have you priced a Patriot missile lately?

[Gwolf]

The only ones who can afford to accept no compromises in a machine, it seems, is the US military, and that comes at a horrendous monetary cost. Have you priced a Patriot missile lately?

I tried to order one, but Amazon website says "Not Currently In Stock"....................

[Steve W.]

Seeing as how BRP has the reverse trike market cornered, they really have no incentive to build Spyders to what Spyders can and truly would be if there were serious competition, say Honda for example. If/when they ever build a reverse trike based on the Gold Wing engine and architecture, BRP will be in serious trouble.

It's an aftermarket add-on, but it's available.
https://thekneeslider.com/r18-revers...l1800-and-f6b/

.

[oldguyinTX]

What law or regulation caused that to happen?

Uh, maybe emissions requirements, which throttle horsepower, mileage requirements, which also throttle horsepower. Those good 'ole GM V8's & Mopar Hemi's sucked gas like crazy, and 5,00 pound land yachts got maybe 8-10 mpg going downhill with a tailwind. But hey, who cared? There were no emissions regulations, no CAFE regulations, and gas was stupid cheap. Getting the picture?

[oldguyinTX]

It's an aftermarket add-on, but it's available.
https://thekneeslider.com/r18-revers...l1800-and-f6b/

.

Yeah, that one and some others are out there, but stupid expensive. And who warranties what? What about dealer support? Not that BRP is great in that department. Just my opinion, but a ground up design beats a conversion kit.

[UtahPete]

Uh, maybe emissions requirements, which throttle horsepower, mileage requirements, which also throttle horsepower. Those good 'ole GM V8's & Mopar Hemi's sucked gas like crazy, and 5,00 pound land yachts got maybe 8-10 mpg going downhill with a tailwind. But hey, who cared? There were no emissions regulations, no CAFE regulations, and gas was stupid cheap. Getting the picture?

Yeah, I get the picture. When you don't understand why industry isn't producing the outdated product you lust after, blame government regulations.

[chipveres]

Name 2 instances of "engineers cutting corners to hold down the price".

I don't think engineers do that. I think they design the optimum solution and then accounting costs that out, and Marketing figures out what the final machine will sell for. If the C-suite demands a greater gross profit margin, then it's back to engineering to figure out where they can use an acceptable alternative solution without compromising safety, performance or marketability.

I'd say they did a pretty good job of it. Which is why we 'love' our Spyders, right?

The dealer service after the sale is the problem, not incompetent dastardly engineers.

In addition to what Peter Aawen already posted, plastic sway bar links? You have got to be kidding me.

[UtahPete]

In addition to what Peter Aawen already posted, plastic sway bar links? You have got to be kidding me.

Have they failed? Are they causing issues? Why is this "engineers cutting corners to save money"?