2015 RTS Blank computer screen, won’t start - any ideas?

[godswearhats]

Hi all,

I have a 2015 RTS with some kind of fault in the electronics. I was unsure of the issue but figured I would start with a new battery. I just replaced the battery, and when I start the trike the dashboard displays all its lights like normal, but when the computer screen turns on (after the Can Am logo) it's just blank. It looks like the screen should, but without any data of any kind.

If I try to start the trike, nothing happens. In fact, none of the buttons seem to work at all (although the parking brake does engage/disengage). When I take the key out, it takes maybe 10 seconds or so for the screen to go to black.

Any ideas on what I can try to get the trike running? My nearest dealer is about 150 miles away, which makes towing it a very expensive option.

Thanks in advance,
AJ

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Re-placing the battery should not cause this ..... did you charge the batt. before or after you did the install ???? ... also load test it ..... good luck .... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

I'm with Mike, it still sounds like, even tho it's new, you've got a poorly charged or a dead battery - or a bad connection somewhere??

Did you put your 'new battery' on charge using a quality Battery Maintainer for 8-12 hours BEFORE installing it?? They often come with just a light charge, and installing them without a proper charge can see failures or significantly reduce their lifespan &/or capabilities! Have you checked all the Earth points & made sure they're clean & tight? Terminals too??

If all that's been done & the battery load tests well, never dropping below 12 volts (yeah, I know, many suggest 10.5 volts under load is OK, but these Spyders are power hungry devices, and in my experience, if the battery drops below 12 volts on a load test, then failures to start the Spyder's computers properly are common & quite likely! ) then maybe you need to start looking for poor connections on the back of the dash module, the ECU, &/or the ignition; or checking all the main wiring loom under the Tupperware for rodent damage?

Good Luck!

[BertRemington]

When (date and mileage) did your RTS last run properly? What were the symptoms before you replaced the battery? When (date and mileage) did the symptoms begin? Were the symptoms all at once or one problem then another etc?

[godswearhats]

Thanks for the replies, will update with a full description of what all happened and when, once I’m at my computer (typing that much on the phone would suck).

[godswearhats]

Ok, here’s what happened, as best as I can recall.

On my way back from the airport, on the motorway at 120kmh, the RTS dashboard blinked. All the electronics went out, then came back on. This repeated multiple times. The bike kept running, so I kept going. When I got to my exit, the electronic controls were unresponsive, so the bike wouldn’t change gear. I managed to coax the bike home cruising in 6th gear. I turned off the bike with the key, and tried to restart it later to move it. An error code of some sort came up, I don’t recall what it was. However, nothing worked. A few days later, I had to leave the country for several months for work, which then led into winter, and more work trips and so it was over a year before I got back to the bike. I tried starting it (this was 3-4 months ago) but got the blank screen I described. Multiple posts seemed to suggest this was a battery issue so I took the battery to be tested at my local battery store, and they confirmed it was problematic. I only got around to ordering a new one last week, filled it up with electrolyte, left it overnight and connected it to the trike. Same blank screen problem. I called the battery store to confirm that I didn’t need to charge the battery (I don’t have a charger) and they told me there should be no need.

Hope this helps shed some light or inspire some ideas on what I might be able to do. I just found out that the only Can Am dealer in the country doesn’t service Spyders (I’m in Ireland), so not sure what I can do if I can’t fix it myself.

Thanks in advance for the help!

[godswearhats]

To be certain, I tested the voltage of the battery. It’s showing as 12.5V. Pretty sure the battery is not the root cause. I’ll post a photo soon showing the screen. It’s not a dead screen, it’s on, just blank.

[K80Shooter]

To be certain, I tested the voltage of the battery. It’s showing as 12.5V. Pretty sure the battery is not the root cause. I’ll post a photo soon showing the screen. It’s not a dead screen, it’s on, just blank.

What's the voltage reading "while" you are trying to start it? Not just sitting, it makes a difference.

[Peter Aawen]

To be certain, I tested the voltage of the battery. It’s showing as 12.5V. Pretty sure the battery is not the root cause. I’ll post a photo soon showing the screen. It’s not a dead screen, it’s on, just blank.

That's NOT indicative of a fully charged 12 volt battery, especially if it was checked fairly soon after a good ride!

[sledge]

Battery should show 13.5 or maybe little higher . check the Ground cable connection at Battery AND Frame . and Positive at Battery and Starter Celinoid down below the Battery on the left side of my 2011 RT .

[BertRemington]

This is a difficult situation. You apparently have a work life that keeps you busy (congratulations) and apparently neither the experience or tools for working on your Spyder. Your first step should be to find a friend whose hobby is working on automobiles and motorcycles that can be bribed to help with a selection of Ireland's finest. Then after checking connections as described above (and 12.5V is too low for a fresh battery) then check the fuse boxes. Open each one, remove the ATO/ATC fuses (the small ones) and examine them closely. Any signs of corrosion is a serious concern. And the fuse link should have be nicely shaped with no asymmetries. Then examine the larger J fuses. Finally the relays although a visual inspection can't tell you much.

The electronics backbone is based on CANBUS. While BRP complied with the KWP2000 protocol, it implemented only the proprietary part of the OBD message series so an OBD analyzer can't be used.

The console is a major node on the CANBUS (along with the ECM, TCM and VCM). The nodes continuously exchange self-test and diagnostic messages (basically 16/second for each node). The console is capable of display OBD fault codes but then yours is dark.

The good news is the console connection may have loosened. The bad news is your console may be failing. Specifically solder joints. You may have read other members observations on erratic console indicators (eg, Mike above). On my Spyder sometimes the RPM logo is visible, sometimes the MPH logo and on rare occasions both logos. And when in reverse with hazard flashers all the indicators flash in unison with the flashers.

From what I've read the console can be carefully disassembled and the solder joints repaired...with careful expertise and proper tools. I've been meaning to find an automotive instrument repair shop to be ready when my console fails a bit more. Perhaps some members already know of such shops that provide mail-in service.

Hoping it's just a fuse.

[BertRemington]

Adding to the above I wish I could offer good news on your parking brake test (thanks for including that, every detail helps).

The parking brake and windshield motors are controlled by the WCM. The parking brake command to the WCM is via direct wire connection and the windshield command to the WCM is via CANBUS. So can't isolate to CANBUS yet.

I said the available OBD analyzers couldn't decode BRP's CANBUS messages but you can buy a CANBUS reader with software that will display the messages although won't decode them. That is, you get the syntax without the semantics. After examining 100s of messages you can mostly figure out messages from simple nodes (eg left-hand switch, VSS) but nothing more complex (at least I haven't and haven't read where anyone else has).

What this means is if a careful inspection of connections and fuses doesn't reveal the problem I think your Spyder will need much more time and attention on you and your friend's part.

PS we need more information:

1. overnight resting voltage of battery (12.5V is too low for new battery)
2. battery voltage ignition on
3. picture of console ignition on
4. picture of console 30 sec after ignition on
5. picture of console 60 sec after ignition on
6. picture of console 300 sec after ignition on
7. picture of console after ignition off
8. picture of console 30 sec after ignition off
9. with ignition off, does your horn work and do your brake lights work
10. with ignition on, do your taillights work
11. when you turn the ignition on, does the fuel pump pressurize for 2-4 seconds
12. when (date, mileage) was the last service and what was serviced
13. is your Spyder kept in a location subject to the humidity that keeps Ireland so beautifully green

[Jetfixer]

Please check out and report back EVERY electrical function. For instance, do the turn signals work? Hazard flashers? Do you hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds when you turn the key on?, brake lights?, etc. This info will help tremendously with troubleshooting.

[happyspyder2039]

Ok, here’s what happened, as best as I can recall.

On my way back from the airport, on the motorway at 120kmh, the RTS dashboard blinked. All the electronics went out, then came back on. This repeated multiple times. The bike kept running, so I kept going. When I got to my exit, the electronic controls were unresponsive, so the bike wouldn’t change gear. I managed to coax the bike home cruising in 6th gear. I turned off the bike with the key, and tried to restart it later to move it. An error code of some sort came up, I don’t recall what it was. However, nothing worked. A few days later, I had to leave the country for several months for work, which then led into winter, and more work trips and so it was over a year before I got back to the bike. I tried starting it (this was 3-4 months ago) but got the blank screen I described. Multiple posts seemed to suggest this was a battery issue so I took the battery to be tested at my local battery store, and they confirmed it was problematic. I only got around to ordering a new one last week, filled it up with electrolyte, left it overnight and connected it to the trike. Same blank screen problem. I called the battery store to confirm that I didn’t need to charge the battery (I don’t have a charger) and they told me there should be no need.

Hope this helps shed some light or inspire some ideas on what I might be able to do. I just found out that the only Can Am dealer in the country doesn’t service Spyders (I’m in Ireland), so not sure what I can do if I can’t fix it myself.

Thanks in advance for the help!

I'm guessing the battery needs charging, since you stated above that electrolytes were added and left over night. If the bike started, that’s good, but it would take a good long ride to get battery charged. My suggestion is to go to Batteries Plus and get a good charger, or let them keep battery for a day or two to charge. I went through a similar thing since I travel for work. If you know you will not be riding for a month or more, disconnect battery or put it on a battery tender. I disconnect mine and bring it inside during winter, and I use a battery charger/tender once a month when using.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I only got around to ordering a new one last week, filled it up with electrolyte, left it overnight and connected it to the trike. Same blank screen problem. I called the battery store to confirm that I didn’t need to charge the battery (I don’t have a charger) and they told me there should be no need.

The battery store people fed you a fine serving of Irish Bull S***! The overnight sitting after adding electrolyte is simply to make sure the glass mats in the battery are properly soaked. That does nothing for the charge. Since you don't have a charger jump the Spyder to start it and then run it for an hour or so to get a decent charge into the battery. Or better, go buy a charger/maintainer for about $30 US.

[godswearhats]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S0X...w?usp=drivesdk

That’s a link to a video of symptoms. I can’t get the video link widget to work from my phone. I’ve taken the battery out now and set it to charge - I’ve found somebody who has the tools and is willing to help me get the trike running. Thanks for all the suggestions so far, gonna start with eliminating the possibility that it’s the battery.

[Peter Aawen]

Interesting vid.... Have you ever gone thru the 'Read the Safety Card then Press Mode to continue' thing that should appear every time you turn the ignition off then leave it off for more than a 5 min or so stop, or does it always just go straight to the dash display like that every time regardless of how long since you turned the ignition on??

[BertRemington]

I didn't watch the full video and I didn't watch with sound on so if you tested horn etc I wouldn't know.

You either have a CANBUS or console failure...if it isn't the battery.

When the ignition key is first turned on and you're waiting for the safety prompt, the console is sending RTR CANBUS messages. The responses are used by the console to determine what nodes (eg, radio, etc) your Spyder is configured with. For example, before I removed the radio my console would display radio controls. They disappeared when I removed the radio.

As you stated, your screen is "blank". That is, the LCD doesn't display any of the node controls. An important (critical) node is the left-hand switch module most of whose controls (eg, Mode) communicate with the console via CANBUS.

The absence of any LCD symbology on the console indicates the console isn't communicating on the CANBUS either for a CANBUS failure (eg, wire grounded, node shorted out, etc) or the console has disconnected from it for some electrical or mechanical reason.

if the problem recurs when battery is 13.5V or thereabouts, the next step is to examine the fuses and relays as I described above. Use a small bright LED flashlight because it's kinda shadowy dark in those crevices. And a low power magnifying glass to examine the fuses is good.

If a fuse has failed this isn't good because WHY? This needs to be resolved.

If a fuse has any corrosion whatsoever this very very isn't good. See my post https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1649286

Best wishes.

[BertRemington]

I watched the video again and your speedometer doesn't show the Km/h indicator (the RPM indicator shows). So I'm pretty sure your console has some bad solder joints.

[godswearhats]

I watched the video again and your speedometer doesn't show the Km/h indicator (the RPM indicator shows). So I'm pretty sure your console has some bad solder joints.

Well, crap. How do I deal with bad solder joints?

[godswearhats]

Interesting vid.... Have you ever gone thru the 'Read the Safety Card then Press Mode to continue' thing that should appear every time you turn the ignition off then leave it off for more than a 5 min or so stop, or does it always just go straight to the dash display like that every time regardless of how long since you turned the ignition on??

Yeah, that’s usually what appears. Not now though.

[Mikey]

I watched the video again and your speedometer doesn't show the Km/h indicator (the RPM indicator shows). So I'm pretty sure your console has some bad solder joints.

Would any for this be picked up if you were hooking it up to Buds? Would it find the gremlin in the box?

[BertRemington]

You might be able to reflow the solder joints as described here https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1669454

Mikey -- there's a very good chance BUDS would not show the presence of the console (properly known as Instrument Cluster). See this post where BUDS doesn't show the ECM but does show the Cluster https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...50#post1658150 What's happening is BUDS is sending CANBUS RTR messages and the various nodes send "I'm Here" messages in response. Any node that doesn't respond doesn't appear in BUDS. Same as when my console reconfigured itself when I removed the radio (which is controlled via CANBUS).

[godswearhats]

I’ve removed the console from the dashboard. It’s in three main parts which are all connected image.jpg

There’s a main board connected to a secondary board via four small wires which appear to soldered in place. Then the secondary board is connected to the screen via a flex cable which also appears to have been soldered in place. Presumably the screen cannot go in an oven at 220 degrees C, but I’m not confident on how to separate these components. Any ideas? I couldn’t find any images or videos online.

[godswearhats]

Looks like I don’t need an answer: after putting away all the components again, everything just worked! I’m guessing that one of the connectors was not properly seated or something similar? Not sure. I’ve started and stopped the trike several times now and taken a quick test drive and all seems well!