Oil Catch Can Warranty issues..

[BajaRon]

Get a new dealer! I'm getting one after mine tried to say that all my mods( which are all cosmetic) stretched my timing chain! There are alot of BONEHEADS out there.

Some dealers/mechanics think customers are idiots and will swallow whatever mushroom stimulant they shovel on them.

Some of this stuff is mind boggling. These anti-customer service dealers need to be flushed...

[Lamonster]

A catch can have been known to leak if there is enough pressure to force it past the filter or if the drain leaks. Did you see if that was leaking at all before taking it in?

Not sure about the plug or washer but in 42,000+ miles I have yet to change my washers on my bike and have yet to have a leak. I even changed Ron's oil and didn't realize till the next oil change that the washer had fell off and he ran 5000+ miles with no washer at all and no leaks.

As far as it causing any other issues that would void a warranty I just don't see how unless it was plugged and there was no venting and you were blowing seals. You would blow gaskets and seals way before the plug would leak if it ever would.

[BajaRon]

There is a bit of confusion out there as to the "Crush Washer" issue.

The copper washer that comes on the Spyder -see below - (at least mine and Lamont's) is not a true crush washer (though it is called that even by those who know better in the industry because the misunderstanding is so wide spread it's easier to go with the flow than try to educate everyone).

What we have is a solid copper washer which is a flat or a banjo washer. It is not designed to (Nor does it) crush or deform when used properly. Because of this, as long as it is not burred or damaged, it can easily be reused many times without leakage.

I've changed my oil several times as has Lamont with no leakage. Like he said, I went from East Tennesse to California and back with no washer at all on the crankcase drain plug and not a drop of oil leaked out.

I could not find a good picture of a true crush washer. Lamont has one laying on his work bench, maybe he can get a pic of that.

A true crush washer (that would be used for our drain plugs) is actually 2 thin sheets of metal usually with some kind of asbestos type material sandwiched in-between. The metal part can be copper, steel or probably Aluminum for our purposes. Some even have a rubber center portion which helps to seal when crushed.

A true crush washer is designed specifically to be deformed, or crushed, when used. Because of this a true crush washer can seal only 1 time and must be replaced EVERY TIME!

BRP is going to say you have to replace the copper flat washer every time as a CYA approach. This covers them against any issues arising from reusing a damaged washer. But it really isn't necessary.

A good used copper flat washer will seal every bit as well as a new one.

My advise is to have 1 of each copper washer (the crank case takes a different washer than the resorvoir) and an O-Ring on hand. That way if any one of these are damaged you can still complete your oil change.

The O-Ring can be reused as well. Both Lamont and I are still using our original washers and O-Rings....but then we are both crazy too!

Sorry, got to go now, my wife is having a fit about something running out from under my Spyder and covering the garage floor...

[NancysToy]

Ron gives good advice in his post. Always inspect the washers and O-rings, and replace if damaged, scratched, torn, dented, etc. He is also correct about a true crush washer having a soft center and deforming when it is used. The copper washers are indeed banjo-type washers, as are the aluminum ones on some other bikes. They are made to be able to compress slightly, but not deform like a true crush washer. They are softer than the crankcase and drain plug for a reason, they may need to slightly conform to the mating surfaces. When this happens, you will see an indentation on the washer. To be perfectly safe at that point, replace the washer. Of course if you rode a Brit bike for years and a few slow drips don't bother you, don't worry about it. One other caution. In time, copper and aluminum washers work harden, so that they are no longer able to do their job well. They can be annealed to make them softer again, but they are so cheap that it is easier to replace them. I recommend replacing them every few oil changes, regardless, for that reason. If they were used on a high pressure system like the brakes, they should be replaced every single time.

Ron's analysis of BRP's "every time" requirement was right on the money. They also recommend that you replace their screws with the factory threadlocker each time. It's just the easiest way for them to assure you won't have an issue. It is much harder to explain the signs of failure and tech you how to inspect them properly, than it is to just tell you to replace them.

[BajaRon]

Ron gives good advice in his post. Always inspect the washers and O-rings, and replace if damaged, scratched, torn, dented, etc. He is also correct about a true crush washer having a soft center and deforming when it is used. The copper washers are indeed banjo-type washers, as are the aluminum ones on some other bikes. They are made to be able to compress slightly, but not deform like a true crush washer. They are softer than the crankcase and drain plug for a reason, they may need to slightly conform to the mating surfaces. When this happens, you will see an indentation on the washer. To be perfectly safe at that point, replace the washer. Of course if you rode a Brit bike for years and a few slow drips don't bother you, don't worry about it. One other caution. In time, copper and aluminum washers work harden, so that they are no longer able to do their job well. They can be annealed to make them softer again, but they are so cheap that it is easier to replace them. I recommend replacing them every few oil changes, regardless, for that reason. If they were used on a high pressure system like the brakes, they should be replaced every single time.

Ron's analysis of BRP's "every time" requirement was right on the money. They also recommend that you replace their screws with the factory threadlocker each time. It's just the easiest way for them to assure you won't have an issue. It is much harder to explain the signs of failure and tech you how to inspect them properly, than it is to just tell you to replace them.

Exactly. Thanks for putting it so clearly. You're a good man Scotty.

You can't blame BRP. They have to gear all recommendations to the lowest common denominator. They have no idea how much knowlegde/experience each owner has.

They know the mechanical minded and experienced owners will understand all of this but everyone can't be an expert or even experienced at everything.

[vendit]

Well, the dealer wants to take the catch can off, and put the stock hose back on. Then they will re-fill with oil, etc and se if the leak returns. What I saw was an unevenly compressed copper washer on the drain plug. I have to think that maybe the washer was either defective, or had some dirt or something in between the copper washer and the drain opening.

Of course, with the attitude that the mechanic has, even if he finds that HE did do something wrong, he isn't going to admit to it. He said he is highly trained and doesn't make mistakes like leaving th drain plug loose.

They have to order thehose and clamps, so I won't know anything for a few days. I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks to everyone for their insight and suggestions. It is much appreciated!!

[BajaRon]

Well, the dealer wants to take the catch can off, and put the stock hose back on. Then they will re-fill with oil, etc and se if the leak returns. What I saw was an unevenly compressed copper washer on the drain plug. I have to think that maybe the washer was either defective, or had some dirt or something in between the copper washer and the drain opening.

Of course, with the attitude that the mechanic has, even if he finds that HE did do something wrong, he isn't going to admit to it. He said he is highly trained and doesn't make mistakes like leaving th drain plug loose.

They have to order thehose and clamps, so I won't know anything for a few days. I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks to everyone for their insight and suggestions. It is much appreciated!!

If you are sure the oil was coming from the drain plug and not the catch can drain (and it appears that you are), I just can't believe this ridiculous approach.

It isn't the catch can, no way, no how. An apprentice mechanic would know this. I know I shouldn't bond with someone else's problem but it's like seeing someone abuse their dog, it still bothers me.

I can't believe they are going to charge you to do something that has no connection to the problem except that they may think this will cover their ineptitude.

It's your Spyder so it is important that you do what you think best. But in my humble opinion, the only thing that replacing the hose will do is cost you money and probably put oil in your air box (which is the reason for the catch can in the first place). About as much good as rotating the air in your tires or lubing you muffler bearing!

If they were honest they would just correct the drain plug issue and be done with it. Now they can say that it was the catch can causing the problem.

[brutus450]

They have to order thehose and clamps, so I won't know anything for a few days.

ORDER them? you can get that stuff at an autoparts store in 1 minute.

I really hope they make you happy and your spyder better. Nothin worse than a bad machanic. Best of luck - I am sure its a simple fix

[BajaRon]

ORDER them? you can get that stuff at an autoparts store in 1 minute.

I really hope they make you happy and your spyder better. Nothin worse than a bad machanic. Best of luck - I am sure its a simple fix

Very True! But these guys haven't done anything right yet so why expect it now?

Besides, if the hose doesn't say BRP on it, it could cause the drain plug to leak again since it would be an "Aftermarket" modification! Can't have any of that!

Next the gas tank will spring a leak because you didn't use a BRP approved clamp on the vent hose!

I'm thinking brain damage, it's the only logical explination!

Still, they're getting paid and that is the definintion of a "Professional".

[Studybaker Bob]

Another case of bad dealership, bad service manager, bad mechanic, don't deal with these people any further. Call customer service & speak with Carlo directly, explain the situation, ask him what he wants you to do. Turn problem dealership into BBB. Our first dealership was not good, we are working with Carlo & our 2nd dealership which is very good. Our early 2008 se5 Spyder is a hi-tech computerized electronic nightmare. We still love our Spyder & have confidence that Carlo & our new dealership will fix it for us.

[krb1945]

Your own oil change. Then you inspect everything and torque the plugs and bolts yourself. Then you know it is done right. And if by chance you don't know how... drop by my humble abode and I'll be happy to teach you. All you need is good inch pound and foot pound torque wrenches or we'll use just use my tools.

As you know Lamont has good instructions on how to do it.

[Putt-Putt]

Ron gives good advice in his post. Always inspect the washers and O-rings, and replace if damaged, scratched, torn, dented, etc. He is also correct about a true crush washer having a soft center and deforming when it is used. The copper washers are indeed banjo-type washers, as are the aluminum ones on some other bikes. They are made to be able to compress slightly, but not deform like a true crush washer. They are softer than the crankcase and drain plug for a reason, they may need to slightly conform to the mating surfaces. When this happens, you will see an indentation on the washer. To be perfectly safe at that point, replace the washer. Of course if you rode a Brit bike for years and a few slow drips don't bother you, don't worry about it. One other caution. In time, copper and aluminum washers work harden, so that they are no longer able to do their job well. They can be annealed to make them softer again, but they are so cheap that it is easier to replace them. I recommend replacing them every few oil changes, regardless, for that reason. If they were used on a high pressure system like the brakes, they should be replaced every single time.

Ron's analysis of BRP's "every time" requirement was right on the money. They also recommend that you replace their screws with the factory threadlocker each time. It's just the easiest way for them to assure you won't have an issue. It is much harder to explain the signs of failure and tech you how to inspect them properly, than it is to just tell you to replace them.

In total agreement. I use the same one Spyder and on my cars and trucks never have I had an oil leak. Most do not use a true crush washer.

[Firefly]

Seems unfortunate that they wouldn't fix such a minor problem. What would it take to simply pull the plug and clean up the issue and replace. If the can is causing an issue then they should simply prove this and make a recommendation.
I guess this is why I have never taken anything into a dealer not even for warranty work. Of course I never buy new so that would explain a lot also.

Fix it yourself and next time just try another dealer who has more experience.

I would just ditch this dealer.

Pull the drain plug and find out what is going on for yourself. Clean it all up - put it back together with a new washer and RIDE. You have to decide what you really want out of this---- a fixed Spyder ---- or proving the dealer wrong?

If they can't handle a simple thing like this--- you don't want them doing anything else to your bike--- EVER.

Didn't you say you tightened it up the rest of the way? Is it still leaking?

[vendit]

I would just ditch this dealer.

Pull the drain plug and find out what is going on for yourself. Clean it all up - put it back together with a new washer and RIDE. You have to decide what you really want out of this---- a fixed Spyder ---- or proving the dealer wrong?

If they can't handle a simple thing like this--- you don't want them doing anything else to your bike--- EVER.

Didn't you say you tightened it up the rest of the way? Is it still leaking?

Yup! I had to tighten the drain plug 1/2 turn to snug it up when it came back from the dealer. That solved the big oil leak, but after a couple hours I still get a few drops from right directly under the drain plug, and the plug surface is wet. I have dried off EVERY part I can get to around, over top and underneath the drain plug to make sure that there is no risidual oil from anywhere else leaking down. This is the only place I have oil dripping. And....it takes a couple hours after everything is wiped down, before I get a drip or two on a clean white rag.

I am convinced that the dealer will never admit them doing anything wrong. I admit that the oil catch can could have leaked and run down, but I checked all that out, and made sure I wiped everything down starting at the top and working my way down. They apparently haven't seen the catch can mod, and so right away "went off" on me about my "contraption" and they are convinced without looking any farther that this is the source of the problem. The catch can has been on for about 2400 miles and I haven't had a leak.

I am just frustrated at how the mechanic and General Manager were so defensive and mad on the phone. I couldn't get a word in edge wise, as they just went ballistic about some contraption I added, and how it is effecting my lubrication system, and how I just voided my warranty!!

I just can't believe it! What a very unproffesional group of people!!

I am in the service business, and you DO NOT treat customers in this matter!

I will keep everyone posted when I hear from the dealer.

[BajaRon]

I just can't believe it! What a very unproffesional group of people!!

I am in the service business, and you DO NOT treat customers in this matter!

I will keep everyone posted when I hear from the dealer.

I could see if the dealer had a prayer of a case with the Catch Can, they would want to make you aware of the negative effects of a defective or bad mod.

Even then they should be professional. They are supposed to be the Experts, after all.

I would really like to hear what BRP would say about all of this. Trouble is, I can see a "He said, She said" issue. I don't think the dealer is stupid enough to tell BRP what they told you.

Still, I'd like to know what BRP would say. Have you tried contacting their customer service/techs?

[Putt-Putt]

Yup! I had to tighten the drain plug 1/2 turn to snug it up when it came back from the dealer. That solved the big oil leak, but after a couple hours I still get a few drops from right directly under the drain plug, and the plug surface is wet. I have dried off EVERY part I can get to around, over top and underneath the drain plug to make sure that there is no risidual oil from anywhere else leaking down. This is the only place I have oil dripping. And....it takes a couple hours after everything is wiped down, before I get a drip or two on a clean white rag.

I am convinced that the dealer will never admit them doing anything wrong. I admit that the oil catch can could have leaked and run down, but I checked all that out, and made sure I wiped everything down starting at the top and working my way down. They apparently haven't seen the catch can mod, and so right away "went off" on me about my "contraption" and they are convinced without looking any farther that this is the source of the problem. The catch can has been on for about 2400 miles and I haven't had a leak.

I am just frustrated at how the mechanic and General Manager were so defensive and mad on the phone. I couldn't get a word in edge wise, as they just went ballistic about some contraption I added, and how it is effecting my lubrication system, and how I just voided my warranty!!

I just can't believe it! What a very unproffesional group of people!!

I am in the service business, and you DO NOT treat customers in this matter!

I will keep everyone posted when I hear from the dealer.

Who is this goofy dealer? As I sure as hell don't ever want to do business with him. This info. might save a lot of spyder owners GRIEF!

[truck 85]

Also keep in mind - for any permanent fix you must use duck tape.

[vendit]

I got my Spyder back from Great Lakes Powersports in Flint Michigan. They removed my catch can mod and replaced with stock hose. The copper crush washer apparently was bad on the crank case drain plug. I looked at the new washer before I left the dealership and it was very shiney new, and had an even compresion profile all the way around!! Funny thing about that...the other one they used on my oil change was compressed to almost nothing on one side before, hence causing the leak!!!

I talked with the General Manager for awhile, and asked him why I was teated so badly by the service manager, mechanic and himself. He told me that he doesn't like his mechanics talking with the customer, because he doesn't have customer service skills. Unbelievable!! He also told me that his mechanic has been working on bikes, etc for 30 years, and that in his mind, he DOESN'T make mistakes!! They still don't believe that the drain plug was not tight when I got it back!

The manager told me that he called BRP about the oil in the airbox problem my unit has, and they told him that they are not aware of any type of problem like this! (yeah, right!)

While the manager was quiet and listened to what I had to say, (I was calm) I still got the impression that he felt my leak was strictly from the catch can mod, and that they still didn't do anything wrong.

I had to pay for parts and labor to put the stock hose back on, and they also charge me $2.99 for a copper washer. This must be a super duoer copper washer for $2.99! The ones they charged me for the oil change were only 99 cents! They DID pay for the new oil......of course they had put the wrong oil in to start with.......so they better pay for it! The service mgr acted like he was giving me a special deal by giving me the new oil for free!

I am just glad to have my Spyder back home in my garage, and I guess I have to chalk this one up to one of those life lessons. I will be doing my own oil changes from here on out.

I want to thank everyone for your candid reply's and suggestions. I appreciate the feedback! It's nice to have this forum for help and a sounding board for problems. The Spyder Lovers community is GREAT!

[brutus450]

The manager told me that he called BRP about the oil in the airbox problem my unit has, and they told him that they are not aware of any type of problem like this! (yeah, right!)

Im glad you got your bike back properly working. What a bunch of idiots.

BRP KNOWS its an issue - he's lying out his teeth!! My shops mechanic has been to BRP classes where they talked about the problem and is looking at fixes!!

Ride on............and find a new dealer

[dltang]

I got my Spyder back from Great Lakes Powersports in Flint Michigan. They removed my catch can mod and replaced with stock hose. The copper crush washer apparently was bad on the crank case drain plug. I looked at the new washer before I left the dealership and it was very shiney new, and had an even compresion profile all the way around!! Funny thing about that...the other one they used on my oil change was compressed to almost nothing on one side before, hence causing the leak!!!

I talked with the General Manager for awhile, and asked him why I was teated so badly by the service manager, mechanic and himself. He told me that he doesn't like his mechanics talking with the customer, because he doesn't have customer service skills. Unbelievable!! He also told me that his mechanic has been working on bikes, etc for 30 years, and that in his mind, he DOESN'T make mistakes!! They still don't believe that the drain plug was not tight when I got it back!

The manager told me that he called BRP about the oil in the airbox problem my unit has, and they told him that they are not aware of any type of problem like this! (yeah, right!)

While the manager was quiet and listened to what I had to say, (I was calm) I still got the impression that he felt my leak was strictly from the catch can mod, and that they still didn't do anything wrong.

I had to pay for parts and labor to put the stock hose back on, and they also charge me $2.99 for a copper washer. This must be a super duoer copper washer for $2.99! The ones they charged me for the oil change were only 99 cents! They DID pay for the new oil......of course they had put the wrong oil in to start with.......so they better pay for it! The service mgr acted like he was giving me a special deal by giving me the new oil for free!

I am just glad to have my Spyder back home in my garage, and I guess I have to chalk this one up to one of those life lessons. I will be doing my own oil changes from here on out.

I want to thank everyone for your candid reply's and suggestions. I appreciate the feedback! It's nice to have this forum for help and a sounding board for problems. The Spyder Lovers community is GREAT!

Sorry you had such a bad experience with Great Lakes. I know from just being in there and dealing with their sales people on a number of occasions, Brian and I would not be doing business with them. We went their for a demo when the spyder's first came out and tired them a number of times. We even went to them before the spyder when I was looking at purchasing a scooter. Not one single time that we were in Great Lakes Power Sports in Flint MI did I feel like we were getting good service or being spoken to with knowledgeable sales person. They have a great display of bikes on their showroom floor and they are hugh but we have found far better service and satisfaction with a small dealership up in Mount Morris. Nord Ride has treated us right and has never made up feel like anything is our fault. The service department has seen and appreciated many of the mods we have done on our spyders. The owner himself has some of Evan's mods on his spyder and carries them in stock for other owners. I hope you find a good dealer to work with for any further issues, maintenance or just general warranty work.

[bjt]

I got my Spyder back from Great Lakes Powersports in Flint Michigan. ...

Do yourself a favor and ride 5 miles north on I 75 next time and go to Nordride. Your story about Great Lakes Power Sports' service department and my experience with their sales and parts staff show me that no part of their business is worth dealing with. For being a "superstore", they charge exorbitant prices on all their gear. Their riding apparel, on sale, was still a lot higher than the local bike gear store's regular prices.

Nordride is a family owned, customer oriented business.

FWIW, about 3 months ago, I talked with Roger (the service manager at Nordride) about doing some type of oil catch can mod to my Spyder. He actually recommended some other options (like an inline fuel filter or an air / oil separator) and looked through his foam air filter material to try and see which would be best if I decided to try putting just a little piece of foam filter in the crankcase vent hose. To me, that shows that he would have no issues with a customer having an oil catch can installed on their Spyder.

[vendit]

Thank you again for all your support! I definitely am going to try out Nord Ride in Mt. Morris. They sound much more customer friendly, and seem more knowledgable about Spyders than Great Lakes Powersports in Flint, Michigan. I like the idea that Nord ride also carries some accessories including Evans! That's awesome. Great Lakes doesn't carry any Spyder accesories or add-ons of any kind. They don't even have any Can Am clothing, hats, etc.

Thanks Again! Ride Safe, and Happy Holidays!

Mike

[bjt]

Thank you again for all your support! I definitely am going to try out Nord Ride in Mt. Morris. They sound much more customer friendly, and seem more knowledgable about Spyders than Great Lakes Powersports in Flint, Michigan. I like the idea that Nord ride also carries some accessories including Evans! That's awesome. Great Lakes doesn't carry any Spyder accesories or add-ons of any kind. They don't even have any Can Am clothing, hats, etc.

Thanks Again! Ride Safe, and Happy Holidays!

Mike

While they don't have a huge stock, they do carry some of the Can-Am apparel and I think they'll order anything that they don't have in stock.

http://www.nordride.com/aboutus.htm