Will the Ryker electronics freak out using Rear Brake only?

[blackphoenix38]

I'm playing with the idea of having the rear brake separate from the front wheels. Just wondering if the all the electronics would freak out or not. I'd probably setup some sort of manual lever for it.

reason being I'm looking to possibly drift it more than you already can, and stopping the rear tire like that is a good way to kick the rear end out.

probably a dumb idea, but most of the fun ideas are dumb lol

[BajaRon]

I don't think you're going to want to do this. The Spyder and Ryker apply the rear brake sooner, and it lets off later than the front wheels. This is to anchor the rear end of the machine when braking. These are highly integrated, electronically controlled machines. I don't think you'll be able to isolate a system from the whole without creating a lot of issues. If the computer isn't happy. You'll simply go into limp mode. Not going to be able to drift anywhere like that. Not to mention that it would probably render your machine dangerous to ride.

[Redbeard]

The learning curve will hurt. My 2020 F3 spyder went into limp mode just because I was adjusting the belt with the rear tire off the ground, with it spinning of course. I had to purchase BUDs2 software to clear it. Check the price of the software and plan on totting it around with you so you can get out of Limp Mode after you break the rear tire free and the bike's computer thinks you have lost control of it. The computer wants all the tires to rotate at the same speed, for your safety of course.

[blackphoenix38]

So I guess the answer is just more power to keep the wheel spinning. I think Can Am dropped the ball with the whole "it can drift" thing. It's way to conservative for riders like me.

[BajaRon]

The learning curve will hurt. My 2020 F3 spyder went into limp mode just because I was adjusting the belt with the rear tire off the ground, with it spinning of course. I had to purchase BUDs2 software to clear it. Check the price of the software and plan on totting it around with you so you can get out of Limp Mode after you break the rear tire free and the bike's computer thinks you have lost control of it. The computer wants all the tires to rotate at the same speed, for your safety of course.

Actually, that code will clear itself by just riding for a few miles. But having BUDS is not a bad thing.

[larryd]

Years ago there was a guy named Ken that had another Spytder forum...He had a 08 GS and had seperate front and rear brakes, also removed the ABS...I have NO idea how you'd find out more information or what ever happened to him??? But I think its possible but not practical...larryd

[BajaRon]

Years ago there was a guy named Ken that had another Spytder forum...He had a 08 GS and had seperate front and rear brakes, also removed the ABS...I have NO idea how you'd find out more information or what ever happened to him??? But I think its possible but not practical...larryd

Is he still alive?!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Is he still alive?!

..... Mike

[BajaRon]

In the early days when the engineers and test pilots would talk to us. The BRP riders (all x-racers) said they had a switch installed on the prototypes that would turn off the VSS system. They said 'Don't Do It! The Spyder will throw you like a lawn dart!' They would never elaborate on the statement. But sounds like someone may have gotten hurt. I don't know.

I didn't like the Nanny either. But I never wanted to see if the BRP test rider's warning was real. It seemed pretty real when they said it. Plus, with the suspension upgrades. The Nanny really doesn't bother me much anymore. And when she does. I probably need it.

I'd rather ride past the guard rails than find out how well they work.

[blackphoenix38]

I'd like to know who the test riders were and what their background is. I get that the system is in place for the average rider. But for those of us that know what we are doing there really needs to be a way to totally switch it off. can am shows off all these promo videos of the rykers doing stuff that just isn't possible. they remove all those safety systems to get those shots. It's borderline false advertising, but I won't get into that here.I do love the Ryker and I loved my spyder, I just wish it had a bit more.

[BajaRon]

I'd like to know who the test riders were and what their background is. I get that the system is in place for the average rider. But for those of us that know what we are doing there really needs to be a way to totally switch it off. can am shows off all these promo videos of the rykers doing stuff that just isn't possible. they remove all those safety systems to get those shots. It's borderline false advertising, but I won't get into that here.I do love the Ryker and I loved my spyder, I just wish it had a bit more.

The ones we spoke to had been racing in pro circuits. They were not amateurs. Switching the VSS system off in a controlled situation for a specific purpose might work. But there is no way anyone is going to take that liability. Trusting the customer to be reasonable is going to get you sued every time.

Of course, all of us are reasonable. It's always the other guy that isn't... Right?

If you really want to try it. Just disconnect all the wheel sensors. But make sure your hospital coverage is paid up. And put the local ER on quick dial. I spent a career going to incidents where the driver thought their skill level was higher than it actually was. And I've been there myself. It's just human nature to think we are better than we are.

[DickB]

I spent a career going to incidents where the driver thought their skill level was higher than it actually was.

Brings to mind the "Tree of Shame" at the Tail of the Dragon.

https://photocontest.smithsonianmag....n-the-tail-of/

[blackphoenix38]

right.. so it's not that it "can't" do it. It 100% can do it, but they dumb it down so much for the average rider. I've had a tire up on the ryker a couple times. both times doing a standing 180 turn at full throttle in sport mode. It really wasn't a huge deal and i turned out fine. If you are diving into corners at 60mph+ then sure.. thats probably not going to work.

I'm talking about getting this thing to actually slide/drift. I got some ideas to try in the spring. The wheel sensor thing will work, but it throws it into limp mode. You'd have to bypass the front sensor to only read the rear one. then you lose ABS as well.

I'll film all my testing and put it up on my Youtube channel.

[Knizar]

....... I'm talking about getting this thing to actually slide/drift. I got some ideas to try in the spring. The wheel sensor thing will work, but it throws it into limp mode. You'd have to bypass the front sensor to only read the rear one. Then you lose abs as well.

I'll film all my testing and put it up on my youtube channel.

why ???

[blackphoenix38]

why ???

And this is why I don't post in here all that often. The age difference shows with posts right here. It's called fun, living a little bit ya know. We are never promised tomorrow, i'm not going to live my life wishing I had fun. If you're cool with riding 20mph all day long thats fine, some of us actually like to ride these things to the limit.

[Peter Aawen]

right.. so it's not that it "can't" do it. It 100% can do it, but they dumb it down so much for the average rider. I've had a tire up on the ryker a couple times. both times doing a standing 180 turn at full throttle in sport mode. It really wasn't a huge deal and i turned out fine. If you are diving into corners at 60mph+ then sure.. thats probably not going to work.

I'm talking about getting this thing to actually slide/drift. I got some ideas to try in the spring. The wheel sensor thing will work, but it throws it into limp mode. You'd have to bypass the front sensor to only read the rear one. then you lose ABS as well.
.....

I do agree that BRP have been overly conservative in their 'dumbing down' of the capabilities of these machines in their effort to cater to the 'least capable of their likely riders' or at the very least they've completely missed the potential for selling these things to those looking for a more spirited riding experience, but I don't think it's really impossible to get a lot more from them than it sounds as tho you have so far?! That said, while I've spent a bunch of very enjoyable days punting a few different Rykers around the place, I haven't really spent enough time on them to be able say that this is definitely the case, but if they're anything like the Spyder's that I have ridden far more extensively, then I really don't think that you need to go to all the trouble of disabling or by-passing wheel sensors to get somewhat more fun from them!

Bearing in mind that generally, the Spyder's Nannies are far stricter than your Ryker's, I feel this ^ cos I've found that every Spyder I've ridden will slide within limits; they will drift within limits; they'll even travel quite some distance with one front wheel in the air (hey, they'll even travel a fairly short distance with TWO front wheels in the air, but only IF you get enough speed over a sharpish crest or hump! ) and they can do all sorts of things that the Nanny will try very hard to stop you from doing IF you let things get untidy, let things exceed her limits, &/or otherwise let things get out of hand!

Just think for a bit about all the sensors feeding the computers and what info they're going to be reporting, and how all that's going to appear to the suite of programs that we affectionately call Nanny... in amongst all that & the 'controls' imposed, there's going to be limits to the speed differential you can have between front and rear wheels (I reckon there's a lot greater allowance on a Ryker tho!) and there's going to be limits to the amount of steering angle you can dial in while that's happening too; just like there's going to be limits on the amount of wheel slip you can generate &/or the angle of lean (yaw) she'll allow at a given speed; and limits on how much throttle you can wind on when you're approaching the limits on any/all of those others - exceed any one of those limits, and the Nanny WILL shut you down - exceed more than just one of them, and she'll shut you down quicker than you can blink!!!

But if you really work at it to fine-tune your 'feel' of where those limits are, or at least work out how far you can push them before getting slapped down (some of us, me amongst them, can be slow learners, and so hafta do it the hard way.... ); and then learn to ride juuust within those limits, even if you are sliding or drifting or lifting a wheel, you can get away with experiencing a lot that most less 'on the edge' riders just won't ever be able to slip by the Nanny! Mind you, maybe it's just that I'm older & slower than I used to be, cos I don't think doing this on a Spyder/Ryker is as easily learnt, intuitive, or even as forgiving during the learning process as it can be on a 2-wheeled bike or in a 4-wheeled car, but I'm convinced that doing it as & when you desire IS eventually achievable - altho I reckon you'll need to develop a much gentler touch, smoother control, and even more careful body-work & balance than ever before in order to keep everything juuuust under ALL of the Nanny's limits for whatever you're doing, but it can be done! I'm still working on it; but the more I ride & practice, the more it's happening for me as & when I want it to!

Just Sayin'....

[Raven]

A long time ago a motorcycle racer told me.
Any fool can hold the throttle wide open and go 100 mph.
But.
Have something go wrong at 100hpm.
You will find out how fast a 100 mph really is.


If you really want to do this, look at the guys on stunt bikes.
They use a second rear brake caliper and master cylinder .

[blackphoenix38]

A long time ago a motorcycle racer told me.
Any fool can hold the throttle wide open and go 100 mph.
But.
Have something go wrong at 100hpm.
You will find out how fast a 100 mph really is.


If you really want to do this, look at the guys on stunt bikes.
They use a second rear brake caliper and master cylinder .

Again.. don't need the lecture on speed.

I'll look into the second brake, but it may not apply to this type of situation, but worth checking out anyways.


I'm working a tuner and shop builder on some fun stuff.. we may just be able to tune it out and power out most of the settings at this point, but having more direct adjustably would be great.