Vredestein for front - what size do I need?

[Jackhartjr]

Hi folks, before anyone screams, search the archives, I did.

Getting ready to put new tires on the front, tyres for you folks down under.
2013 RTL.
What size Vredestein do I need?
I'll be glad to get rid of the Krapolas up there!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Hi folks, before anyone screams, search the archives, I did.

Getting ready to pur new tires on thefront, tyres for you folks down under.
2013 RTL.
What size Vredestein do I need.
I'll be glad to get rid of the Krapolas up there!

I bought the 165/60-15 size because they fit great and were less expensive than the 175/55-15 size ( which will also fit ) ..... Here's a truth - the Spyders VSS computer will decide exactly how many lateral " G's " the Spyder will pull. ... If you had 225/50-15's on the front ( but you can't ) you wouldn't get any more traction than the 165's will give you........ let the screaming denial's begin ..... " Science matters " ..... Mike

[fredgal]

I bought the 165/60-15 size because they fit great and were less expensive than the 175/55-15 size ( which will also fit ) ..... Here's a truth - the Spyders VSS computer will decide exactly how many lateral " G's " the Spyder will pull. ... If you had 225/50-15's on the front ( but you can't ) you wouldn't get any more traction than the 165's will give you........ let the screaming denial's begin ..... " Science matters " ..... Mike

new tires coming soon for my F3L..... think ill spend the extra 1.43$ per tire and get the 175/55/15's,, you must be really cheap..

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

new tires coming soon for my F3L..... think ill spend the extra 1.43$ per tire and get the 175/55/15's,, you must be really cheap..

Nope I'm actually " frugal " ..... In addition to what I said in the post you quoted - wider tires Usually agua-plane before narrower ones ..... good luck .... Mike

[CloverHillCrawler]

In all actuality, I have the 165's on mine and feel that I have to be more graceful because of the nanny issue. As much as I love the grip of the Vredesteins I feel that I have had more nanny issues than before.

I may be shopping for a tire to go back to the 155's on the front to calm my nanny down and no I am not backing off of my driving to keep her quiet! I wish Vredestein made a 155 so I could stay with it.

I 'll see after I do my Wilbers shocks upgrade. Just got the green light from the wife to spend the money so I will be ordering those soon and I have to replace the front tires and get an alignment when I do that.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In even More actuality ..... MORE traction will also trigger the VSS .... this is the way Bosche designed their system..... Maybe this will help explain why ...... If you could put a Spyder on a Tether and drive it around an immovable anchor, this would Prevent any " sideslip " ..... The VSS would still trigger, even tho there was NO loss of lateral traction..... ( what do you think Peter ???? ) ..... Mike

[CloverHillCrawler]

Exactly is why I am thinking I may have "too much traction" thus triggering the sensors with the wider tires.

I know it may seem wrong to complain about but my nanny kicks in a lot quicker now on some of the turns on the roads I drive at lower speeds now than when I had the 155's.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Exactly is why I am thinking I may have "too much traction" thus triggering the sensors with the wider tires.

I know it may seem wrong to complain about but my nanny kicks in a lot quicker now on some of the turns on the roads I drive at lower speeds now than when I had the 155's.

... If you believe ....LESS ... traction ... is better .... I have nothing further to say .... good luck ... Mike

[CloverHillCrawler]

And thus why I said too much traction, not that I wanted less but just the right balance as not to trigger the nanny.

Also this is what these machines are designed for and most likely programmed into those bosche designed systems that you were touting in the previous post.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

And thus why I said too much traction, not that I wanted less but just the right balance as not to trigger the nanny.

Also this is what these machines are designed for and most likely programmed into those bosche designed systems that you were touting in the previous post.

" TOUTING " ..... I wasn't touting anything .... I tried to explain what the Bosche system is capable of..... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

Exactly is why I am thinking I may have "too much traction" thus triggering the sensors with the wider tires.

I know it may seem wrong to complain about but my nanny kicks in a lot quicker now on some of the turns on the roads I drive at lower speeds now than when I had the 155's.

I'm a little confused Clover - what 155's did you have on your Spyder?? AFAIK, the stock OEM tires on the front are 165 wide??

[CloverHillCrawler]

My apologies. I was thinking of width on the different size of the Kenda, when it was the ratio that was different (55 instead of 60).

[Peter Aawen]

As Mike mentioned in an earlier post, if you tethered your Spyder & did some circle work without any sideslip, the Nanny would still kick in - it'll do this for a number of reasons, but at least to some degree cos it's got a Yaw Sensor that doesn't actually detect 'Sideways Slip' (or Yaw) only as it occurs, but rather it detects the Spyder's Angle of Lean BEFORE it slips, flips, or rolls - or if you like, it detects the forces that reveal 'Incipient Sideways Slip/Flip'!! This is (often?) because you have too much weight up high that's trying to throw you OUT, or away from the cornering forces....

On a 2 wheeled bike, this doesn't happen anywhere near as much because the only reason you're turning is due to you & the bike leaning IN to enable the turn and countering these forces - but despite all those forces still being similar (or possibly even greater) than on a 2-wheeled bike, your Spyder doesn't lean IN to turn it, YOU STEER IT!! And basic physics shows that since you can/must steer your bike to induce a turn (so you can turn quicker than any 2 wheeled bike can turn just by leaning) causing greater throwing out forces - YOU STILL NEED TO OVERCOME/COUNTER those 'greater throwing out' forces OR THE NANNY STEPS IN...

Apart from reducing the traction markedly & introducing a lot of sideways slide into the deal, the only other important variables in this equation that YOU have control over are really your SPEED, and what you do with your WEIGHT!! Btw, I REAALLLYY doubt that the Nanny is cutting in any sooner per se - it's waaaayyyy more likely that you're cornering harder or faster than you were on lesser tires, cos they let you slip in conditions/circumstances where now you have the grip to actually start & get further into the corners before any slipping becomes imminent & triggers the Nanny, so I reckon it's more likely that you are actually cornering faster/harder than before cos you can/don't notice it and THAT's why you're getting more Nanny intervention, if that makes sense to you?!

Regardless, AFAICan see with your concerns Clover, if you feel that your Nanny is cutting in earlier with the tires you now have & you want to sort that, then apart from going back to less grippy tires in some way, you either need to Slow Down & ride less aggressively, which you've told us you don't want to do; or you need to move your weight IN & DOWN more on every corner where you're experiencing this 'Nanny Intervention', thereby reducing the forces trying to throw you out & away from the corner & by doing so, minimising the sensor inputs that trigger the Nanny! Make sense??

I've found that you can do this by bracing yourself with your outside foot (it's down low & below the CoG so it has minimal impact on that 'yaw' sensor) to enable moving your bum across the seat and down toward the inside of the corner while also lowering your upper body (& its weight) towards the inside of the corner - ie. move your bum across the seat then in & down as you lean your upper body into the corner & forward as if to kiss your wrist on the inside handlebar... and until you get those first two well under control (that's the moving your bum in & down + getting your upper body across & down into the corner bits ) it also helps to try to avoid pushing on the outside bar but instead only PULL on the inside bar - cos until you & your weight get well down low on the inside of the bike thru a corner, a push on the outside bar will be transferring even more 'up high' weight towards the outside of the corner and actually increasing the likelihood of Nanny intervention!!

How MUCH you need to do this depends upon how hard you want to ride - it's probably not at all necessary if you're just out there tooling along with the breeze in your face, but once you start pushing things along a bit, it becomes more necessary! And just as necessary as it is, the harder you push, the more it needs to become part & parcel of your smooth flow thru the corners - this Bosch Nanny our Spyder's have is a truly wonderful thing for what she is, but she really likes a smooth flow of weight & actions instead of jerky weight transfers & sudden control inputs, changes of attitude etc! Every sensor feed she gets is by design intended to make her respond quicker/harder to sudden/aggressive changes, cos that's how things happen in an accident - so the smoother & more 'flowing' you can make your riding and all those weight transfers, steering inputs, braking, etc, etc, the less likely she is to intervene! That doesn't mean you need to slow down &/or can't go fast, cos you really can, just so long as you do it smoooootttthhhhllllyyyy and make it flow!

When I first put better tires on my Spyder & hit the test track, the Nanny went berserk!! I was used making tiny but rapid (possibly even jerky?!) control inputs and rapidly switching my body & weight from side to side of a 2 wheeled bike, but the significant gyroscopic effect provided by the two wheels spinning in line with each other which makes riding a 2-wheeler so intuitive (for some! ) damped out a lot of the jerkiness & aggressiveness inherent in the way I did this - the Spyder doesn't have that massive gyroscopic dampener effect built in and it doesn't respond much at all if you only lean or move your weight around - YOU hafta actively turn; YOU hafta actively provide the control inputs that trigger & maintain the turn; YOU hafta actively move your weight and especially your upper body a whole lot more than you do on a 2 wheeled bike if you want to corner harder, go faster, minimise the Nanny inputs; and YOU hafta actively do it all smoothly and in a flowing manner as you ride, or the Nanny will intervene to protect you from yourself!!

And once you really get into the groove of smoothly moving with, over, & around your Spyder, dialling in all the necessary weight transfers & control inputs and no more without upsetting the equilibrium of the Spyder as you use your body & control to keep it perfectly balanced and level, or maybe even leaning IN a little thru the corners, the feeling you get is phenomenal and something I like to strive for on every ride!! Not only is getting it all together gonna see you smoothly carving thru the tighter corners, short straights, and twisties much faster than any 2-wheeled bike or 4 wheeled vehicle ever could and see you doing that WITHOUT the Nanny cutting in, but IMHO you get a much greater feeling of 'exhilarating oneness' with your bike! (And if she's good, your pillion passenger can share this exhilaration with you too! ) A 2-wheeled bike has all that in-built gyroscopic effect to dampen any mistakes you might make and to keep it all together & behaving, but climb aboard one of these things and it's just you controlling your Spyder and her Nanny; and together, they are much more responsive and directly reactive to & managed by YOU!! You get it wrong, the Nanny tells you to think about what you did wrong and to smarten up - there's no gyroscopic forces holding things upright or acting to keep you safe!! It all comes back to YOU and the wonderful piece of engineering (albeit with a few ideas that failed miserably in their execution ) that is the machine that YOU are piloting - do it smoothly, flowing thru feeding in all the control that's necessary and not one bit more or less, then when you do get it right, the Nanny doesn't intervene anywhere near as much and you'll know that you've achieved it - this time!!

Sorry about the saga, but you did ask....

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

As Mike mentioned in an earlier post, if you tethered your Spyder & did some circle work without any sideslip, the Nanny would still kick in - it'll do this for a number of reasons, but at least to some degree cos it's got a Yaw Sensor that doesn't actually detect 'Sideways Slip' (or Yaw) only as it occurs, but rather it detects the Spyder's Angle of Lean BEFORE it slips, flips, or rolls - or if you like, it detects the forces that reveal 'Incipient Sideways Slip/Flip'!! This is (often?) because you have too much weight up high that's trying to throw you OUT, or away from the cornering forces....

On a 2 wheeled bike, this doesn't happen anywhere near as much because the only reason you're turning is due to you & the bike leaning IN to enable the turn and countering these forces - but despite all those forces still being similar (or possibly even greater) than on a 2-wheeled bike, your Spyder doesn't lean IN to turn it, YOU STEER IT!! And basic physics shows that since you can/must steer your bike to induce a turn (so you can turn quicker than any 2 wheeled bike can turn just by leaning) causing greater throwing out forces - YOU STILL NEED TO OVERCOME/COUNTER those 'greater throwing out' forces OR THE NANNY STEPS IN...

Apart from reducing the traction markedly & introducing a lot of sideways slide into the deal, the only other important variables in this equation that YOU have control over are really your SPEED, and what you do with your WEIGHT!! Btw, I REAALLLYY doubt that the Nanny is cutting in any sooner per se - it's waaaayyyy more likely that you're cornering harder or faster than you were on lesser tires, cos they let you slip in conditions/circumstances where now you have the grip to actually start & get further into the corners before any slipping becomes imminent & triggers the Nanny, so I reckon it's more likely that you are actually cornering faster/harder than before cos you can/don't notice it and THAT's why you're getting more Nanny intervention, if that makes sense to you?!

Regardless, AFAICan see with your concerns Clover, if you feel that your Nanny is cutting in earlier with the tires you now have & you want to sort that, then apart from going back to less grippy tires in some way, you either need to Slow Down & ride less aggressively, which you've told us you don't want to do; or you need to move your weight IN & DOWN more on every corner where you're experiencing this 'Nanny Intervention', thereby reducing the forces trying to throw you out & away from the corner & by doing so, minimising the sensor inputs that trigger the Nanny! Make sense??

I've found that you can do this by bracing yourself with your outside foot (it's down low & below the CoG so it has minimal impact on that 'yaw' sensor) to enable moving your bum across the seat and down toward the inside of the corner while also lowering your upper body (& its weight) towards the inside of the corner - ie. move your bum across the seat then in & down as you lean your upper body into the corner & forward as if to kiss your wrist on the inside handlebar... and until you get those first two well under control (that's the moving your bum in & down + getting your upper body across & down into the corner bits ) it also helps to try to avoid pushing on the outside bar but instead only PULL on the inside bar - cos until you & your weight get well down low on the inside of the bike thru a corner, a push on the outside bar will be transferring even more 'up high' weight towards the outside of the corner and actually increasing the likelihood of Nanny intervention!!

How MUCH you need to do this depends upon how hard you want to ride - it's probably not at all necessary if you're just out there tooling along with the breeze in your face, but once you start pushing things along a bit, it becomes more necessary! And just as necessary as it is, the harder you push, the more it needs to become part & parcel of your smooth flow thru the corners - this Bosch Nanny our Spyder's have is a truly wonderful thing for what she is, but she really likes a smooth flow of weight & actions instead of jerky weight transfers & sudden control inputs, changes of attitude etc! Every sensor feed she gets is by design intended to make her respond quicker/harder to sudden/aggressive changes, cos that's how things happen in an accident - so the smoother & more 'flowing' you can make your riding and all those weight transfers, steering inputs, braking, etc, etc, the less likely she is to intervene! That doesn't mean you need to slow down &/or can't go fast, cos you really can, just so long as you do it smoooootttthhhhllllyyyy and make it flow!

When I first put better tires on my Spyder & hit the test track, the Nanny went berserk!! I was used making tiny but rapid (possibly even jerky?!) control inputs and rapidly switching my body & weight from side to side of a 2 wheeled bike, but the significant gyroscopic effect provided by the two wheels spinning in line with each other which makes riding a 2-wheeler so intuitive (for some! ) damped out a lot of the jerkiness & aggressiveness inherent in the way I did this - the Spyder doesn't have that massive gyroscopic dampener effect built in and it doesn't respond much at all if you only lean or move your weight around - YOU hafta actively turn; YOU hafta actively provide the control inputs that trigger & maintain the turn; YOU hafta actively move your weight and especially your upper body a whole lot more than you do on a 2 wheeled bike if you want to corner harder, go faster, minimise the Nanny inputs; and YOU hafta actively do it all smoothly and in a flowing manner as you ride, or the Nanny will intervene to protect you from yourself!!

And once you really get into the groove of smoothly moving with, over, & around your Spyder, dialling in all the necessary weight transfers & control inputs and no more without upsetting the equilibrium of the Spyder as you use your body & control to keep it perfectly balanced and level, or maybe even leaning IN a little thru the corners, the feeling you get is phenomenal and something I like to strive for on every ride!! Not only is getting it all together gonna see you smoothly carving thru the tighter corners, short straights, and twisties much faster than any 2-wheeled bike or 4 wheeled vehicle ever could and see you doing that WITHOUT the Nanny cutting in, but IMHO you get a much greater feeling of 'exhilarating oneness' with your bike! (And if she's good, your pillion passenger can share this exhilaration with you too! ) A 2-wheeled bike has all that in-built gyroscopic effect to dampen any mistakes you might make and to keep it all together & behaving, but climb aboard one of these things and it's just you controlling your Spyder and her Nanny; and together, they are much more responsive and directly reactive to & managed by YOU!! You get it wrong, the Nanny tells you to think about what you did wrong and to smarten up - there's no gyroscopic forces holding things upright or acting to keep you safe!! It all comes back to YOU and the wonderful piece of engineering (albeit with a few ideas that failed miserably in their execution ) that is the machine that YOU are piloting - do it smoothly, flowing thru feeding in all the control that's necessary and not one bit more or less, then when you do get it right, the Nanny doesn't intervene anywhere near as much and you'll know that you've achieved it - this time!!

Sorry about the saga, but you did ask....

x's 10 & WOW .... Peter this should be a " sticky ", also I would have said the same thing if I could type as well as you ...... Mike

[troop]

My apologies. I was thinking of width on the different size of the Kenda, when it was the ratio that was different (55 instead of 60).

165/55R15 tires are getting really hard to find in car tires. Pre pandemic, I found a set of Achilles ATR-K 165/55R15's for $110/pair. That was after the Federal Formoza's disappeared. I have those mounted on my OEM wheels. The Federals are still extinct, but the Achilles have sky rocketed in cost. I'd still stick with the Vredestein's as they're the same cost as the Achilles now. I have the Vredestein 165/60R15 on my PPA wheels.

[Jackhartjr]

I really love the conversation that came about in this thread!
Good information!
I'll have the tires (tyres on Friday or Monday! And thanks to all!

[fredgal]

I really love the conversation that came about in this thread!
Good information!
I'll have the tires (tyres on Friday or Monday! And thanks to all!

what size did you order,,tks

[Jackhartjr]

165/60/15 sir.

[scarecrow]

I know not another tires tread , but with federal AZ01 fronts and Cooper rear no longer available. I am looking for car tires for the front and will probably use General Altimax Rt43 215/60r15 for the rear. Sorry, but I need help.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I know not another tires tread , but with federal AZ01 fronts and Cooper rear no longer available. I am looking for car tires for the front and will probably use General Altimax Rt43 215/60r15 for the rear. Sorry, but I need help.

I currently have 165/60-15 Quatrac's. 0n my 14 RT..... and I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooove them ..... they will fit all 14 and up Spyders.....Mike

[Lew L]

.

The doesn't lean in corners SO I do. push or weight the outside foot, slide smoothly on the seat to the inside, bend inside elbow and lower body into the turn. It's like hanging off on 2 wheeled sport bikes. I'm on curvy roads as soon as I leave my housing area.

Lew L
PS: 165 Quatracs here also.

[scarecrow]

Which Quadtracs? Standards, 5s , pro's ?

[Lew L]

Which Quadtracs? Standards, 5s , pro's ?

They are all good..

[bikerbillone]

Knight, you are the 'tire man' I need read no further.

[K80Shooter]

Which Quadtracs? Standards, 5s , pro's ?

Well without stating the size that you want, the 5's are no longer made and the pro's do not come in the 165/60R15 size for the front so that leaves the Quatracs.