2019 RTL won't shift up (fixed'ish - only now it's un-fixed again!)

[ClayJ]

2 times now, I've been riding and suddenly find that pushing the "shift up" paddle, doesn't actually shift up. I didn't see anything flash on the screen, didn't hear funny engine or drive train noises. I just can't upshift.

Each time, I've tried wiggling, thumping, or other things to feel for or fix a stuck switch, but nothing.

Each time, a short shutoff of the bike (all the way to park light off), then back on, didn't fix the problem. Couldn't shift out of neutral to 1st gear sitting at a stop. Could shift to reverse, then back into neutral.

Each time, a long 5+ minute shutoff of the bike fixed the problem and I was going again.

Each time, I'd been riding for only about 15 minutes when it occurred.

Each time, I was using the heated grips on low.


I didn't know how to pull codes either time, so I don't know if there was a computer error. I've been unable to reproduce the problem since then, but I've only ridden for 30 minutes since It's getting cold.

I've heard that the CANBus will get finicky if you mod your bike poorly. I have pretty minimal mods:

1. rear brake flashers
2. engine powered relay to pass battery power to a few accessories

Recently had to replace the battery with a Batteries Plus version.
Recently had the sprocket recall repaired (Bike sat at the shop for 3 months, thus the dead battery).

[Peter Aawen]

You haven't just been caught out by the revs being too low have you??

If you don't have high enough revs for your given road speed in the next gear up, the trans computer & the ECU will gang up on you and won't allow the shift.... Mind you, this is actually a good thing, cos it's protecting your Spyder from the engine lugging & potentially damaging something, & it's protecting the clutch too!!

So maybe, if this ever happens again, you should try pushing the revs a bit higher & getting the road speed up a bit faster before having another go at making the upshift.... I know that for many, their first instinct on missing an upshift is to drop the revs & slow down a bit before trying again, but in these days of modern computer managed engines & transmissions, that's often the exact opposite of what you really need to do!

There again, there's also been a growing number of 2018/19+ Spyders developing a LH Control Module failure, requiring the replacement the entire LH Grip & Switch/Control module, with similar 'can't shift out of neutral into 1st except via reverse' symptoms, and some of those have taken a fair while to diagnose & longer to actually get the Hand Grip!

I hope yours isn't one of those, so try giving that rev harder/ride a bit faster before trying the upshift a go - with any luck, that'll sort it!

Good Luck!

[ARtraveler]

Profile says 2019 RT. 1330 engine.

Recommended shift revs are 3500 for "normal" shifting. Higher is okay....lower????

[BertRemington]

ClayJ -- my Spyder will often illuminate the Engine indicator when I use the heated grips. The PO repaired (badly) the left-side wire and the right-side wire was slightly pinched. So try running without heated grips and see if the problem recurs.

Did you make your mods before or after the battery was replaced?

[Mikey]

The guys above all have good ideas, and I know you have a new battery, but did you use star washers on the cables when you hooked them up, and just for kicks I would skip down to my auto parts place and have them load test it, just to eliminate any gremlins that may pop up! Just A thought!

[ClayJ]

No star washers. I'll double check whether it's tight.

Mods were made 2 years ago when I bought the bike.

I'm pretty sure nothing is wrong with the physical switch because I can switch into and out of reverse (both directions work), but I can't shift from neutral to 1st. So it's got to be a logical problem, not a physical one.

[pegasus1300]

Sounds to me like the early stages of left switch cluster failure. Your dealer should be able to diagnose that when you go in for the 3000 mile service.

[cjr00]

I agree with pegasus 1300. My 2018 F3L was doing the same thing. Went back to the dealer and they are replacing the lefthand multifunction switch.

[Bfromla]

Ya wouldn’t be surprised some of failure from '18 LH controls seeped over in to the '19's!

[cjr00]

FYI... Drove the bike home yesterday after the left hand multi switch replacement, ( 1 hour ride ). Shifted fine. Now if the sun would come out I can get back to learning to ride this beast.

[ClayJ]

I agree with pegasus 1300. My 2018 F3L was doing the same thing. Went back to the dealer and they are replacing the lefthand multifunction switch.

When you say "doing the same thing" do you mean it would only shift down and wouldn't shift up, but turning the bike off for 5 minutes would fix the problem?

After 10+ more hours of riding, I finally had this happen again. Couldn't shift up at all, but after turning the bike off for 5 minutes, it works again.

[cjr00]

Yes, it wouldn't go past 1st gear, but would go into reverse then nothing. After a cool down period it would be fine until I stopped at a light. Then the same over again. Left hand muti switch replacement cured the problem.

[ClayJ]

I had this happen again yesterday just minutes after starting the bike. Again, couldn't shift up at all. Checked for fault codes and found none.

Shut down for 5 minutes then restarted and everything works fine.

[ClayJ]

My bike continues to do this. I've had it to the mechanic (Faye Meyer in Denver) and they said they couldn't make it happen, but didn't say how hard they tried. He also cleaned the left hand controls.

I have been unable to perceive any pattern to when it happens. It's about 1 in 5 rides on average, I'll get 5 minutes down the road and suddenly can't shift up. I've tried a lot of minor thumping or slow pressing. Usually, I turn around and just slow ride home in 1st. If I shift to reverse or neutral, I'm stuck, but if I stick to first with flashers on, I can nurse it home.

If I turn the bike off and wait a long time (like 30 minutes or next day), it always corrects, and I can shift again. If I only wait 1 or 5 minutes, it often works but not always.

It does it whether I use heated grips or not.

I'm a computer programmer, so to me it feels a lot like computer memory being held alive by a capacitor and I have to wait long enough for the cap to fully drain before the problem clears.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

My bike continues to do this. I've had it to the mechanic (Faye Meyer in Denver) and they said they couldn't make it happen, but didn't say how hard they tried. He also cleaned the left hand controls.

I have been unable to perceive any pattern to when it happens. It's about 1 in 5 rides on average, I'll get 5 minutes down the road and suddenly can't shift up. I've tried a lot of minor thumping or slow pressing. Usually, I turn around and just slow ride home in 1st. If I shift to reverse or neutral, I'm stuck, but if I stick to first with flashers on, I can nurse it home.

If I turn the bike off and wait a long time (like 30 minutes or next day), it always corrects, and I can shift again. If I only wait 1 or 5 minutes, it often works but not always.

It does it whether I use heated grips or not.

I'm a computer programmer, so to me it feels a lot like computer memory being held alive by a capacitor and I have to wait long enough for the cap to fully drain before the problem clears.

You're a computer programmer so I don't have to explain/convince you that it's almost impossible to remove/lose anything that goes thru a computer. ..... It appears the Tech didn't put it on BUDS ... He thinks .... GUESSING ... is the way to diagnose issues ..... Take it to someone else ..... good luck .... Mike

[Piratezz]

Had the same problem. I took the whole left assembly apart, saw that the shifter was missing a little ball bearing where it swivels, the height of the contact points were compromised so the shift thumb did not push directly on the microswitches; I made a ball bearing fit, underneath, and it's worked flawlessly since.

If that little bearing is missing, that could be causing your issues. No warranty, but it worked for me.

[ClayJ]

It happened again, but I fixed it in a different way.

1. After 1/4 mile, the bike wouldn't shift up, so I limped the bike home;
2. I left the bike on, in neutral with parking brake on;
3. Every minute I tried to shift it into 1st;
4. After 7 minutes of trying, the bike shifted to 1st;
5. I pulled out and went for my ride with no further issues.

So I don't actually need to turn the bike off, I just need to wait until the bike will shift again.

[ClayJ]

I hate threads that end without any resolution, and since I've sort of fixed my problem, here's my post explaining what I found and what I've done about it.

I've been limping along for months with this problem occurring. Early in a ride, the bike will refuse to shift up and the only way I knew to fix it was to turn the bike off for 15 to 30 minutes, then restart and it would be fixed.

I took it to a dealer, and they couldn't make it happen. They disassembled and cleaned the controls and said to bring it back when I could reproduce the problem.

So the other morning I left on a ride. Just 3 minutes out I went up a small hill and suddenly the bike wouldn't shift. I was so close to home, and I decided to ride home in first, so I whipped around. Now the bike would shift. At the bottom of the hill, I u-turned again and started back up. Again, it wouldn't shift but on flipping around it would shift.

I started up hill again, but before shifting I let off the throttle completely, then shifted, and it worked.

I took the tupperware off and looked for any loose connections but didn't find any. I did unplug and re-plug what I could see.

For now, during the first 10 minutes of a ride, I decelerate before shifting and I haven't had the problem recur. It's probably not great for the bike, but at least I'm learning to trust the bike again.

[RTWolfie]

Well this sort of sounds like what's happening to me and my 2019 RT Limited with 26,000 kms. A few times in the last year my bike would simply refuse to shift up, usually from 3rd. I'd hit the paddle a few times, slow down and then speed up and it would magically fix itself. In early Dec I was out for a ride and she wouldn't shift from 4th to 5th. I dropped down to 3rd and it wouldn't go back into 4th. Then it fixed itself again. Got up to the next stoplight and when I was pulling away she wouldn't go out of 1st. I pulled over, shut her off and tried a few times to get her in 1st but no go. I was thinking about a tow truck and decided on one more try and she went into 1st. I then drove home and she went into every gear. Had it towed to the shop (an hour away) and when they got her they couldn't get her to go past 1st and she was throwing all sorts of codes. They replaced the shift switch to no avail. Then the mechanic, who has had similar issues with aftermarket tail lighting unplugged mine and everything started to work again. Test drove it, no codes all is fine. I picked it up, drive home and everything was great. Took her for another hour ride some days later and all is good. I went out for a ride today and got about 3km from home and again wouldn't shift up from 3rd. Stopped at the next light and then she won't shift out of 1st again. Pulled over. Turned her off and on a few times, won't shift into 1st. Finally got reverse, then it wouldn't do neutral again. Shut it off, the engine warning light came on and then went off. Waited 5 more minutes and started her up and she shifted normally all the way home. Having her towed back to the shop tomorrow, Thankfully I'm still under warranty. I need this fixed before my trip in June. Do you still have issues with yours?

[Mikey]

I hate threads that end without any resolution, and since I've sort of fixed my problem, here's my post explaining what I found and what I've done about it.

I've been limping along for months with this problem occurring. Early in a ride, the bike will refuse to shift up and the only way I knew to fix it was to turn the bike off for 15 to 30 minutes, then restart and it would be fixed.

I took it to a dealer, and they couldn't make it happen. They disassembled and cleaned the controls and said to bring it back when I could reproduce the problem.

So the other morning I left on a ride. Just 3 minutes out I went up a small hill and suddenly the bike wouldn't shift. I was so close to home, and I decided to ride home in first, so I whipped around. Now the bike would shift. At the bottom of the hill, I u-turned again and started back up. Again, it wouldn't shift but on flipping around it would shift.

I started up hill again, but before shifting I let off the throttle completely, then shifted, and it worked.

I took the tupperware off and looked for any loose connections but didn't find any. I did unplug and re-plug what I could see.

For now, during the first 10 minutes of a ride, I decelerate before shifting and I haven't had the problem recur. It's probably not great for the bike, but at least I'm learning to trust the bike again.

I would not trust a darn thing, it's still not right!! I wish I had a answer to your problem, but I don't, but I can tell you that your shifting sequence, isn't the fix for this issue.Good luck

[PW2013STL]

Interesting reading this thread today. Yesterday on our ride (4 Spiders) our ride leader pulled over to the side of the road as her RT would not shift. I didn't ask her what year her RT is, but it's in the 15-18 year range. I was able to get it into reverse, but not any forward gears. Was calling for a tow when someone else was able to get it into 1st.
She then took off for home, but she had to slow down for a turn and when the Spyder down shifted it would not upshift again. We could not get it to upshift, so we pushed it in to a clearing. She rode behind another rider, and we proceeded to her home 70 miles away. Her husband was unable to help, but the lady she rode behind said that she has a Spyder trailer at her place. That was another 30 miles away.
They headed to get that (and her boyfriend to help) and I headed back to her Spyder to wait for them. About 2 hours later they showed up and all 4 of us were able to get it up the ramp and into the enclosed trailer.
The dealer will look at it Wednesday. I think it's the paddle shifter, or gear position sensor.
I do find it interesting that it will go into reverse, but not forward.
Found out it's an 2018.

[BertRemington]

I agree with Pegasus -- most likely LHS failure.

If you're not on warranty I would attempt the Pirate fix.

The LHS signals are sent via CANBUS to the TCM, console, etc modules interested in them. The CANBUS is fairly robust but can be interfered with by electrical system changes including moving cable locations. The RHS cruise control can also be affected because it sends its signals via wires to the LHS who sends them on via CANBUS.

WRT to connectors, there have been instances (very few) where the connector pin locks didn't hold and the pin backed out enough to cause a intermittent disconnect. Very hard to detect. A visual inspection using a small LED light is best.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I believe the shifter switch is a silicone rubber bubble with a copper or brass metal film. When the switch is pressed a nubbin pushes down on the bubble and makes contact with another copper patch. At least that's the way the starter button is configured on my 2014 RT. What happens is the metal film deteriorates and breaks apart, leaving only a small portion of it active and able to complete the circuit. https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1641755

Because the shifter switch is a CanBus item on a printed circuit board I don't think there is any practical way to bypass it like I did on my starter switch. https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...starter+button

Since BRP doesn't sell component parts for things like the LHS module you have no choice but to replace the entire LHS module.

[RTWolfie]

I'll definitely post a resolution when they find one. Back to the hospital she goes! The OP's problem seems very close to mine, and since I'm under warranty (2019 bought new out of the crate in spring 2021 with 4 years warranty included) BRP is stuck fixing it. I've found other similar threads but no resolution posted. My problem doesn't happen all the time, just randomly with no apparent correlation to how I'm riding. I'll be out having fun, and she'll just refuse to shift up. I can shift down manually or she'll do it herself, but once in 1st I'm stuck there. I have a big trip planned this summer and I REALLY need to have confidence this won't get me stuck in the middle of nowhere.

20240127_120437.jpg

[RTWolfie]

Update: So I picked her up on Sat, rode and hour back from the shop and no shift issues. Shop said it was my brake flash modulators I got from TRIC LED that was causing my issues. While I was out yesterday it was fine for the 1st hour, then it was randomly refusing to shift up when I hit the paddle. Sometimes I would have to hit the paddle 3-4 times then it would begrudgingly shift. Got to a light and again it wouldn't shift above 1st. Pulled over shut it off, turned it back on and it wouldn't shift into 1st at all. A couple more tries, she went into first and I rode back home without an issue. But twice while trying it at the side of the road when I switched it on nothing came up on the screen, I just had the parking brake and neutral lights. Back to the shop she goes.