Sprocket Final Fix Update from Shawn Smoak

[Jdr00ejr]

I personally think Shawn Smoak knows his stuff. He is a very knowledgeable mechanic. Spyder or otherwise. If you don't like the style of his videos, then don't watch them. He spends a lot of time recording and editing them so we all have what information he gives us. I just don't understand all the Smoak haters out there.

Not a hater - just not a kool-aid drinking fanboy either. He does seem like a very knowledgeable mechanic - but I 100% agree with those that say he's towing the BRP company line. I just don't enjoy wading through the junk to find the value. Not just with him - but any YouTuber - and guess what - like you suggest - I usually just don't watch them.

You DO know that he DOESN'T have to make those informative DIY videos, right ??

He could just say, "F*ck it. I'm just gonna let those Spyder owners bring their Spyders to ME for easy maintenance and repair, and they'll be out a few bucks. Easy money for ME"

Just skip the fluff and watch the meat of the video.

Shees ....

Sometimes it's hard to find the meat of the video - he jumps around so much. And then he throws in things that get people chasing something that isn't exactly what he said. For Example: Several in this thread are jumping on the locktite - which he didn't say is the way BRP is installing this pulley - but did comment in a way that makes people think that's the case (as it was a historic temporary solution). We don't know for sure yet that Locktite is what is to be used. Hidden Meat - or misleading info?

It's a lucrative revenue stream for those with tons of followers.

100% - he makes the videos to make money, and get perks from his dealer and BRP I'm sure.

Have you noticed that most of his vids are not "how to" do something. Just info about something. I'm sure the dealership looks at is as an advertisement. BRP looks at it the same way. Have you noticed that he goes out of his way to mention that the BRP oil is the best. How crapenda tires are the only tire to run on a Spyder. etc, etc, etc. I think he is paid well for his services. A new demo Spyder to ride every year. The revenue he makes from YouTube.

Agreed!


Again - I'm not a hater - but I also don't understand why people love him so much. To each their own I guess. I'll keep waiting for someone to post the bulletin with more solid info for us to go off of. Will I watch another of his videos - yeah, I'll probably skim through something if I feel it might have a tidbit in it that's useful - but I'll gumble about it to myself again. LOL! Again, to each their own - it clearly works for him.

[Revalden]

And Yamaha had to do it for the transmission and shaft drive on their early Ventures. The shaft drive is expensive and heavy and a power robber.

If a shaft drive is a power robber then just retune the engine cuz it is a powerful engine with a lot more power if tuned correctly.

[T.P.]

I put our Spyders away for the Winter on Sunday 11-20, Got my 2nd recall notice on Monday 11-21, wont be any recall work done in Minnesota for a while.
mine passed inspection 7-20 and I run it hard with red dust of death and all.

Lots of miss information about this sprocket recall right from the start.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...44#post1652944

T.P.

[Steve W.]

Shaft drive is not the cure all some think it it is. I have been riding BMW's since the mid seventies. They require periodic spline lubes on transmission and rear drive or they will fail.

I have had shaft-driven motorcycles since 1979. The "periodic spline lubes" on all of my bikes have only taken an extra 5 minutes at every rear tire change. Just use the proper lube (Honda Moly60 or the new Moly77) and there is no problem with lube interval lasting as long as the tire.

Not sure about the Loctite product that will be used. Hopefully it will not be used to bond the shaft and sprocket. It has been proven over the last (almost) 50 years that a good lube (high moly content} works very well. No need to add any complexity.

Here’s a question. I watched the video and he said the inner spline is deeper than the original. We’re also adding a washer to the inside. So basically we’re pushing that sprocket out 1/8 to 3/16 from factory setting correct? Isn’t everyone rear wheel going to have to be realigned since the belt will now really be tracked against the inside of the new sprocket? It’s going to squeak and squeal like a pig after 1000 miles if not. Maybe he meant the outside of the inner spline but still it will be min of 1/8 out now. Correct?

I think it was adequately reported in subsequent posts, but the spline area of the sprocket was thinner. The additional washer/spacer merely brings it back to the original thickness. No re-alignment is necessary.


For those pushing for shaft drives, ... add me to the list. There are some that say they are heavy and power-robbing. True, but why did BRP bother to add a shaft to the Ryker 600? On top of that, we all know the 1330 engine is capable of so MUCH more power. It could easily be tuned so the rear wheel power would be the same. Weight would be the only remaining factor. To make it worse, it's "unsprung" weight. Might not be quite as crisply-responsive over road irregularities, but for a heavy touring machine, it's not that much of a problem.


My dealer called a couple of weeks ago to say they had a new sprocket to replace ours. This is the one that I posted a couple months ago where the inner flange had come off, and I had it welded back on. Will be interested to see what the "new" sprocket looks like. Bike is at the dealer now, it's on next week's schedule for work.

The whole stripping issue could be a matter of simple metalurgy. Suzuki introduced a shaft-driven bike in 1979, then expanded to a few different models in 1980. Some time during the 1982 production run, they changed the splines in the final drive. It was quickly found that they were softer and would wear a LOT quicker, if not properly lubed (and most weren't). In 1983, Suzuki came out with a new sprocket that is still produced for current models, 40 years later. Why would BRP have to re-invent the wheel (splines), why not use the same material that Suzuki does?

.

[bikerchris1270]

The Smoaks Vlogs dated today November 30th briefly mentioned the front pulley repair using Loctite 609 instead of the previous assembly paste. It’s some info becoming available……..better than nothing.

[ulflyer]

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/...ctite_660.html

Calls for some serious cleaning before applying. Wonder how well this will be done by most mech's?

[Woodenfish]

I find most of Shawn’s videos quite boring, uninformative and a few of his videos on Spyders in for repairs to be in the shop torn apart for an extended time period. When you have all of the Tupperware off the Spyder and the wiring harnesses exposed as much as they can be fault tracing should be relatively quick. I’m not sure if that is his diagnostic ability, work load, lack of parts or whatever. I don’t know the training a BRP technician receives or how often it occurs but it seems to me by watching his channel that it is clearly not enough. I don’t know how any manufacturers of motorcycles, ATV’s, snowmobiles, PWC, etc. have any ability to target a mechanically inclined person to work for them. It does not seem like a rewarding career move and the technicians I’ve seen have been quite young. I guess BRP and like others can get away with it because their vehicles are pretty consistent year to year and on the job training is about as good you’re going to get.

I think for Shawn’s channel to be better for my liking he needs to interact with his audience. His lack of seems to suggest he does not really want to inform anyone extensively but just wants YouTube views for his side hustle. Most other technician/craftsmen/tradesmen made channels I have watched are 10x more informative and the subject matter more clearly defined. Perhaps that is not the intent of his channel and my dreams are not ever going to be fulfilled. His channel offers limited entertainment, constant repetition and less than optimal information making forums like this so much more attractive.

[MrBill5491]

Ugh, wish they get the new sprockets out soon. I'm #4 on the waiting list since the 1st of Sept. Went to the dealer a couple weeks ago, still no word when they'll receive the first sprockets. They said they would do the quick fix though I want the finally fix so they do have to do it a second time.

[Freddy]

The Smoaks Vlogs dated today November 30th briefly mentioned the front pulley repair using Loctite 660 instead of the previous assembly paste. It’s some info becoming available……..better than nothing.

BRP must have read some of my old posts.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ht=loctite+660

[Partzman23]

The Smoaks Vlogs dated today November 30th briefly mentioned the front pulley repair using Loctite 660 instead of the previous assembly paste. It’s some info becoming available……..better than nothing.

I watched the video too, Shawn said to use Locktite 609 for this new sprocket repair ,not Locktite 660.
I took a screen shot from the video .

[Freddy]

LOCTITE® 609 is a green, high strength methacrylate ester acrylic retaining compound designed for the bonding of cylindrical fitting parts. The product cures in the absence of air between close fitting metal surfaces. Typical applications include rotor to shafts in fractional and subfractional horsepower motors. Locks bushings and sleeves in housings on shafts. Augments press fits..

LOCTITE® 660 is designed for the bonding of cylindrical fitting parts, particularly where bond gaps occur without the need for remachining. The product cures when confined in the absence of air between close-fitting metal surfaces and prevents loosening and leakage due to shock and vibration. LOCTITE 660 exhibits excellent gap cure characteristics and is also suitable for retaining shims. .

I wonder what BRP actually says to use?

[Navvet]

Ugh, wish they get the new sprockets out soon. I'm #4 on the waiting list since the 1st of Sept. Went to the dealer a couple weeks ago, still no word when they'll receive the first sprockets. They said they would do the quick fix though I want the finally fix so they do have to do it a second time.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, my dealer just called and scheduled us in for Dec 23 for the sprocket recall.

Maybe we will get a nice Christmas present.

[Lamonster]

We've been using Locktite 648 for years with very good results. This was recommended to me by one of BRP's head Spyder techs. Just a guess but I would say we've done close to a hundred or more repairs with zero failures. I've done this on all 5 of my Spyders with no issues to date. I'm still not understanding the washer thing but I'm sure they went this route for a good reason. I'm sure the key to fixing this is going to be the Locktite. It has worked well for me and my customers.
IMG_5542.jpg

[Bensonoid]

We've been using Locktite 648 for years with very good results. This was recommended to me by one of BRP's head Spyder techs. Just a guess but I would say we've done close to a hundred or more repairs with zero failures. I've done this on all 5 of my Spyders with no issues to date. I'm still not understanding the washer thing but I'm sure they went this route for a good reason. I'm sure the key to fixing this is going to be the Locktite. It has worked well for me and my customers.
IMG_5542.jpg

I did this to mine also.

[Freddy]

LOCTITE® 648 is a green, fluorescent, low viscosity, high strength, urethane methacrylate acrylic, anaerobic retaining compound designed for bonding cylindrical fitting parts. It prevents loosening and leakage from shock and vibration. Typical applications include holding gears and sprockets onto gearbox shafts and rotors on electric motor shafts. It provides robust curing performance.

[pauly1]

We've been using Locktite 648 for years with very good results. This was recommended to me by one of BRP's head Spyder techs. Just a guess but I would say we've done close to a hundred or more repairs with zero failures. I've done this on all 5 of my Spyders with no issues to date. I'm still not understanding the washer thing but I'm sure they went this route for a good reason. I'm sure the key to fixing this is going to be the Locktite. It has worked well for me and my customers.
IMG_5542.jpg

I haven't seen parts in-my-hand, but the washer appears to fill the ditch/groove at the end of the splines on the transmission output shaft, and would be assumed to be consumable, just like the sprocket (vs the shaft). I would test the hardness on the washer: it is probably less than the sprocket hardness and much softer than the shaft. Its purpose likely two-fold: in the event of a future sprocket failure, it would prevent the sprocket from getting locked onto the transmission output shaft by the remaining ring of splines (currently providing much anxiety and effort when trying to extricate the sprocket from the shaft) and provide a bit of compliance as everything gets locked together with the Loctite (like the seal washer on a drain plug). r.e. hardness: if there is no relative movement between the sprocket splines and the shaft splines, thanks to the Loctite 648, the hardness of the washer would be relatively minor. To me, it looks like a sound, engineered solution.

[RideOn]

Recalls don't expire. Once all units have the fix, NHTSA will close the recall.

And, I did notice that this sprocket is made in the USA, and I'd be willing to bet that it is a third party vendor. So my question is, what is the supply chain issue and/or the material shortage issue (which BRP claims there is) here? A company here in the US can't get the material to make these sprockets? Are they made from some mystery material that they can only get from Russia? The part is not coming from overseas, and I would think that whatever company is making them HERE would be cranking them out in pretty substantial numbers. I also wonder why BRP is claiming that the cyberattack on their systems is slowing this down as well. Seems to me that there's a lot of smoke and mirrors here.

BRP is a Canadian company (Valcourt, Quebec) so if the part is made in the USA, it is still a "foreign" item from BRP's viewpoint.

I agree it's frustrating to wait for so long, but the rest of your statement is speculation.

[Cobwebs]

No answer to my message to Shawn Smoak regarding the washer or metallurgy unfortunately. Was informed by a third party that he doesn't answer questions. I'll try BRP direct but don't hold out much hope of getting any trade secrets out of them either .Failing that I'll come up with a really crackpot theory and spread it far and wide over the interwebs

[Bensonoid]

Maybe the reason for the washer is as simple as stopping excess loctite from getting anywhere near the shaft seal.

[mandytuning]

I wonder you guys that used 6** loctite ,how hard is gonna be to remove if you ever have too. I work with it all time in industrial jobs and really hate it when time to disassembly,it takes a lot of heat, probably drill 2 holes and thread it.

[Bensonoid]

I wonder you guys that used 6** loctite ,how hard is gonna be to remove if you ever have too. I work with it all time in industrial jobs and really hate it when time to disassembly,it takes a lot of heat, probably drill 2 holes and thread it.

Fingers crossed that I never have to remove it, but if I do...challenge accepted.

[Peteoz]

I wonder you guys that used 6** loctite ,how hard is gonna be to remove if you ever have too. I work with it all time in industrial jobs and really hate it when time to disassembly,it takes a lot of heat, probably drill 2 holes and thread it.

I don’t really care how hard it is to remove, mandytuning, because my dealer will be replacing the old sprocket, and if the new one malfunctions, the dealer will be replacing it, as well

Pete

[Jbandauskas]

I had the issue in October, 2022. I broke down going to work. They did a temporary repair. I then received an additional email from brp Dec14, 2022. Called dealer in Surprise, Az. Haven’t heard a word since. I don’t blame the dealer but i regret buying this thing. I am leery to drive it.

[Knizar]

I had the issue in October, 2022. I broke down going to work. They did a temporary repair. I then received an additional email from brp Dec14, 2022. Called dealer in Surprise, Az. Haven’t heard a word since. I don’t blame the dealer but i regret buying this thing. I am leery to drive it.

Whatca driving? How long have you had it? did ya buy it NEW? Need info, Bill