Do I really need a GPS?

[Peteoz]

Peter, there is nothing that you have mentioned that Sygic on the smart phone doesn’t do. The whole of Australia map is included, with attractions, fuel etc etc. Sure you might have to download an NZ map if you are going there, or a US map if you are going there, but that takes all of 30 seconds. The maps are updated frequently and automatically. You don’t find too many more easily found power supplies than those used for a smart phone.
For 95% of riders, everything you need is include in the app on the phone. It will continue to provide GPS directions even if, as you say, every phone tower in the world is taken down. I have NEVER not had GPS signal, so it obviously accesses plenty of satellites. I think your arguments apply more to the 5% who want their GPS to perform fairly unique functions, in which case, yes, you need a standalone GPS unit. For nearly all of the rest of us, a smart phone and app work perfectly well

Pete

[Flamewinger]

Yes, I must admit that if I had the iPhone 14 plus, running the TomTom or Sygic app before I purchased the XT, the 14 plus would be the way I would be running now, Flamewinger, freeing up an accessory port, and the worry of an extra piece of gear. The only concern would be the risk of vibration damaging the stabilisation feature on the iPhone, and I’m sure that will be addressed shortly. It’s only a matter of time.

Pete

I’ve been using iPhones since the 3G (2008). I’ve had TomTom as well as Garmin and now use either Sygic or Genius Maps. They have the ability to create custom routes either by adding waypoints or moving the highlighted route to another road. All I have to do it download the maps for wherever I’m going. Free traffic, map updates and more.

[Flamewinger]

I prefer having a GPS rather than using my phone for that purpose, not the least of which is I find the "temptation" to check other crap (texts especially) while riding to be a distraction, even though I successfully avoid doing so. Phone goes in the frunk pugged in to charge, music via bluetooth, and the Garmin 390 I picked up on clearence for $200 sits nicely in the centre of my steering, where I can glance at what is coming up, much like as with my mirrors, and otherwise stare where I am actually going. Just my 2 cents (which because Canada no longer has cents in circulation, rounds off to zero)!!

When using it in the bike there is no “temptation” as the phone is dark and can’t be used whether it’s on top of my dash to keep it cool or in the glovebox. We have GPS, Music, FOBO and Rever plus a few other apps. Most of which isn’t needed while riding.

[askitee]

My spYder is a 2022 RTL petrol blue.../so on a recent 5 day trip i solely used my iphone GPS (google maps) and it worked just perfect took me wherever i needed to be, that being said do i really need to spend $300-500 on a GPS.
i've even plotted route on google maps sent them to my phone and BOOM away we go phone even works with gloves.
i've also heard that the spYder usb in the glove box does not have enough ''juice'' to keep the iphone powered, well i was at 10% battery running google maps my siriusxm app and by the time i stopped for food and fuel 2 hours later i was at 100% battery, so to those of you who say it won't charge, check you cables and or your phone socket for crap built up.

so back on topic $300-500 buys a lot of goodies. primary muffler delete/ dynamic lighting/ light bar/ blaster horn/ pedal commander ect ect ect.

what say you all....BTY i have also notice when traffic slows google will give you alternate routes... just like a GPS.

thanks SLICE

I'm not sure how remote you travel, here in Australia once you leave the areas with Phone coverage not all the smartphones are able to use their location services. Some rely on multiple Cell towers to transmit their location and thus allowing the phone to calculate its location. I've only been caught a few times in remote locations like this and it was quite a surprise to realise this.

Its certainly handy when whatever device you do choose to be receiving advance warning of traffic conditions/accidents/amended travel time - and for my better half - being able to watch real time where I am travelling.

L:astly the GPS is weatherproof. I've not seen the USB unable to power devices I have a USB splitter connected to my port and charge phones, spare batteries for the helmet, Tablets x 2

[Tango]

Wife and I use my Android phone for GPS directions. It's awesome. Have it linked to the bike, 2020 RTL so directions come over the speakers. We usually mount it on the handle bar, but have found it works great from the rear trunk. Safe from rain, or falling off. And it plugs in and gets charged as well. Tom

[Flamewinger]

I'm not sure how remote you travel, here in Australia once you leave the areas with Phone coverage not all the smartphones are able to use their location services. Some rely on multiple Cell towers to transmit their location and thus allowing the phone to calculate its location. I've only been caught a few times in remote locations like this and it was quite a surprise to realise this.

Its certainly handy when whatever device you do choose to be receiving advance warning of traffic conditions/accidents/amended travel time - and for my better half - being able to watch real time where I am travelling.

L:astly the GPS is weatherproof. I've not seen the USB unable to power devices I have a USB splitter connected to my port and charge phones, spare batteries for the helmet, Tablets x 2

Since the iPhone 3G (2008) all smartphones have 3 THREE antennas. Cell, WiFi AND GPS. So when you loose cell service IT STILL WORKS!

Google Maps can work if the map data is downloaded ahead of the trip. Shut it down and you’re lost. Waze requires cell service for maps BUT TomTom, Sygic, Genius Maps have downloaded maps so they WORK OFFLINE!

Also most smartphone are more than just waterproof. You can drop them in water and they still work. For the newer Spyder models, you put it in the waterproof glovebox and what’s the problem?!?!?

[SLICE]

I'm not sure how remote you travel, here in Australia once you leave the areas with Phone coverage not all the smartphones are able to use their location services. Some rely on multiple Cell towers to transmit their location and thus allowing the phone to calculate its location. I've only been caught a few times in remote locations like this and it was quite a surprise to realise this.

Its certainly handy when whatever device you do choose to be receiving advance warning of traffic conditions/accidents/amended travel time - and for my better half - being able to watch real time where I am travelling.

L:astly the GPS is weatherproof. I've not seen the USB unable to power devices I have a USB splitter connected to my port and charge phones, spare batteries for the helmet, Tablets x 2

i have traveled all over America and in all the places i have been i only lost cell service in 2 places the allagash wilderness in Maine and between farson & atlantic city Wyoming, but there are no other roads to turn off so nothing to worry about.

my iphone 14 plus is good underwater for up to 20 minutes so i'll just avoid any river crossings, i'll leave those up to the adventure bike ryders.

i really appreciate all the comments and advice guys.

[staneric]

I replaced my Zumo 396 with my Android phone and Google Maps. The phone blows the Garmin out of the water in every category.

[Peteoz]

Askitee and others, there seems to be some confusion about how a specialist GPS app purchased to run on a smartphone works. As Flamewinger has mentioned several times, you do not need ANY phone tower signal to run the GPS app on your smart phone. It runs purely from satellite, using the inbuilt satellite antennae. You never lose GPS signal unless the Russians or Chinese take out satellites. The only thing losing your phone signal from the towers does, is limit your ability to get current traffic issues and weather, but you continue to receive your route guidance.

A smart phone, mounted where your current gps (say, a Garmin XT) usually sits, will provide you with every service the XT provides, and more. The new phones are submersible to 5 metres or so for quite some time, so they are fully waterproof. The screen is large and brilliant, and easily seen in daylight. The app is constantly updated with new maps (automatically if required). If I had my iPhone 14 before I purchased the XT, I would not have needed to buy the XT. That is not denigrating the XT, which I love, but I could have saved my money. Plus, also as Flamewinger mentions, you can put the smart phone in your glovebox and use the BRP Go joystick to control everything. I was not a fan of BRP Go, and still don’t use it, but they have developed it to the point where it is functioning quite well, and reliably.

Askitee, as an aside, you are running a ‘17 RT-L, which is a different spec from the ‘20+ model that Slice and I are running. As such, it has a different charging capacity to the ‘20+ models glovebox charger that is used for BRP Go. The ‘20+ model glovebox charger is severely limited as BRP don’t want it used as a simple charging station. From Slice’s comment, it looks like Apple may have reduced the battery draw of its new larger iPhone 14 models……but there is no way the ‘20+ glovebox charger would charge the number of devices that your ‘17 RT does. It’s comparing apples to oranges.

Pete

[Peter Aawen]

I'm happy for you to go on believing that Pete (& others) but having seen what happens when they don't work to those expectations, I'm still going to carry & use when necessary/appropriate, a proper & fully functional GPS. And if I'm going truly remote (something we have a lot of here in Oz, in a way that many in the US just don't comprehend ) there's a very good chance that I'll also have the appropriate paper maps & an analogue compass along too - just to be sure to be sure!

[Peteoz]

It’s not a case of “go on believing that”, Peter, which makes it sound like what I am saying is untrue…..it isn’t…….regardless, we are effectively in “violent agreement”

What you are referring to is the 5% that really want to get out into the remote wilderness. I am in complete agreement with you regarding the 5% “pioneers”. They definitely need a full blown GPS AND satellite phone, not a mobile phone with a GPS app.

I am referring to the 95% of Spyder riders who simply go a short way off the beaten track, in which case the phone GPS apps work a treat. My original point was more for those out there who are unaware that the phone GPS apps work off satellite, not mobile phone signal, rather than a comparison of the relative merits of a full blown specialist GPS versus the general consumer Garmin XT or GPS app.

Pete

[askitee]

Askitee and others, there seems to be some confusion about how a specialist GPS app purchased to run on a smartphone works. As Flamewinger has mentioned several times, you do not need ANY phone tower signal to run the GPS app on your smart phone. It runs purely from satellite, using the inbuilt satellite antennae. You never lose GPS signal unless the Russians or Chinese take out satellites. The only thing losing your phone signal from the towers does, is limit your ability to get current traffic issues and weather, but you continue to receive your route guidance.

A smart phone, mounted where your current gps (say, a Garmin XT) usually sits, will provide you with every service the XT provides, and more. The new phones are submersible to 5 metres or so for quite some time, so they are fully waterproof. The screen is large and brilliant, and easily seen in daylight. The app is constantly updated with new maps (automatically if required). If I had my iPhone 14 before I purchased the XT, I would not have needed to buy the XT. That is not denigrating the XT, which I love, but I could have saved my money. Plus, also as Flamewinger mentions, you can put the smart phone in your glovebox and use the BRP Go joystick to control everything. I was not a fan of BRP Go, and still don’t use it, but they have developed it to the point where it is functioning quite well, and reliably.

Askitee, as an aside, you are running a ‘17 RT-L, which is a different spec from the ‘20+ model that Slice and I are running. As such, it has a different charging capacity to the ‘20+ models glovebox charger that is used for BRP Go. The ‘20+ model glovebox charger is severely limited as BRP don’t want it used as a simple charging station. From Slice’s comment, it looks like Apple may have reduced the battery draw of its new larger iPhone 14 models……but there is no way the ‘20+ glovebox charger would charge the number of devices that your ‘17 RT does. It’s comparing apples to oranges.

Pete

Hi Pete,

That's interesting about the 3 antennas? A group of us were in the country near Wee Waa about 4 months ago with a mix of Androids and iPhones. None of us had coverage.

I agree with other comments, I think its only a matter of time before GPS units are redundant. I've often wished Garmin just went with Android OS and allowed us to load other apps onto the unit. It would add value for me.

[Peteoz]

Hi Pete,

That's interesting about the 3 antennas? A group of us were in the country near Wee Waa about 4 months ago with a mix of Androids and iPhones. None of us had coverage.

I agree with other comments, I think its only a matter of time before GPS units are redundant. I've often wished Garmin just went with Android OS and allowed us to load other apps onto the unit. It would add value for me.

Askitee, when you say you had no coverage, do you mean you had no phone signal, or that your GPS app on your phone was unable to find any satellites?

Pete

[Flamewinger]

Hi Pete,

That's interesting about the 3 antennas? A group of us were in the country near Wee Waa about 4 months ago with a mix of Androids and iPhones. None of us had coverage.

I agree with other comments, I think its only a matter of time before GPS units are redundant. I've often wished Garmin just went with Android OS and allowed us to load other apps onto the unit. It would add value for me.

Sounds like you were using Google Maps or Waze which are NOT offline capable. (No cell or WiFi)

Garmin had an app but due to the free Google or Waze they stopped offering it and in 2020 they stopped supporting it. TomTom is still available , last I looked.

[sandeejs]

I prefer to keep my phone on me, to be available for use as a phone. I do compare routes between GPS and phone b4 leaving. One bad experience allowed me to call my son from the ambulance bc my phone was with me, not the pieces of my Spyder.

[Peteoz]

Sounds like you were using Google Maps or Waze which are NOT offline capable. (No cell or WiFi)

Garmin had an app but due to the free Google or Waze they stopped offering it and in 2020 they stopped supporting it. TomTom is still available , last I looked.

Yes, I think that is where the disconnect lies, Flamewinger. There are many out there who don’t understand that Sygic and Tom Tom, for example, use the separate inbuilt satellite antennae to get everything you need for real time GPS for your phone app, and not the mobile phone tower network antennae.

Pete

[RULINGCHAOS]

I noticed also that in direct sunlight, my phone gets hot while charging and impacts it. I go back and forth between G Maps and Waze. I like the community real time info of Waze but I like the satellite view on G Maps. If there was a GPS unit that used G Maps in our size that would be great.

[seaweed]

How long should it take to download Genius Maps or Sygic? I ask this as these sites are overseas from my location.

[Flamewinger]

How long should it take to download Genius Maps or Sygic? I ask this as these sites are overseas from my location.

Depends on how fast your internet is and what maps you want to download.

[seaweed]

I was trying to download via my PC which I have done with some other apps. Failed so I downloaded straight from my phone (success).
Next question, will either work with Airplane mode on?

[Peteoz]

I was trying to download via my PC which I have done with some other apps. Failed so I downloaded straight from my phone (success).
Next question, will either work with Airplane mode on?

Yes, it will work on Android and iOS, but with some restrictions, seaweed.

For example -
It will only work with iOS versions > 8.
You must have pre loaded the maps for where you are flying.
You must be able to get a GPS signal (often difficult in an aircraft).

Pete

[MNBK]

The difference between need and want is the question I see. Does anyone need one? I don't need one but I wanted one so I have a Garmin Zumo XT.

Everyone has different wants and needs.

Just my opinion which is only worth the paper it's written on.

[Peteoz]

The difference between need and want is the question I see. Does anyone need one? I don't need one but I wanted one so I have a Garmin Zumo XT.

Everyone has different wants and needs.

Just my opinion which is only worth the paper it's written on.

So how do you find your way to an unknown address without a GPS, MNBK? Sure you can use paper maps, and yes, you NEED those paper maps as you can’t rely on verbal directions. Paper maps don’t work too well on a bike, so a GPS is NEEDED to reach your remote destination. Sure, if you only ride locally you don’t NEED paper or electronic maps, but otherwise ???

Pete (my opinion is only worth the technology on which it is typed )

[SLICE]

i should change the title to this thread to..

My wife bought me a GPS for Christmas, do i really need it.




we are in discussions about returning it, i'm in dire need of reloading supplies (magnum pistol primers)

i told her don't buy me a GPS 50 times, apparently she took that as me begging for a GPS.

you would think that after 38.7 years she would know what i don't need.

[Peteoz]

i told her don't buy me a GPS 50 times, apparently she took that as me begging for a GPS.

you would think that after 38.7 years she would know what i don't need.

Hahahaha. Yep, yep, yep …… been there, Slice

Pete